Should paying secular bureaucrats to fund and administer government programs count as a tithe because some of those programs help poor people? No, of course not.
But does the fact that most Americans are required at gunpoint to pay close to (if not more than) half their income in taxes (federal income, state income, property, sales, gas, etc.) to the government make it MUCH, MUCH harder to tithe? Of course it does.
" For example we believe that stealing, killing, fraud, and lying are inappropriate and criminal behaviors. However that does not mean we believe the person committing those acts are any less human that we are. "
Actually, that's exactly what it means. Jesus was the most fully human person who ever lived, precisely because He did not sin. that is the target we should be striving for. Of course, none of us will ever hit it, but those who strive to and come closer are more fully human than those who do not.
In other words, I believe Mother Thresa was more fully human than Hitler. The fact that someone affiliated with the church would teach otherwise should be quite disturbing to all of us.
I didn't say our humanity is dependent on our perfection. Like I said, no man can ever be perfect. But I do firmly believe that when we repeatedly choose the evil over the good, we harden our hearts and forsake a bit of our humanity. It is the folks like the murderers in Aurora and Oak Creek who we rightly call "monsters". The habit of evil corrodes the human heart.
Man has an animalistic nature and a Godly nature. Again, we cannot be perfect, but we can choose whether or not to completely reject any attempt at living a holy life. If we make that unfortunate choice, we become more selfish and narcissistic and less empathetic and kind-hearted.... in other words, less fully human.
"Ryan, perhaps you ought to define what you mean by human."
One of the biggest differences between humans and animals is that we know good and evil and can strive towards good. The more we do this, the more human we are.
"If we have rejected God, are we then not living by our "animalistic" nature, as you term it?"
Well there are morally confused Christians and moral atheists, but certainly on the whole, I think the person who knows there is a God who loves us and cares about how we behave in this world is more likely to strive towards the good.
"Does it matter then if we choose a violent or coercive pathway, or a politically pleasing persuasive pathway while we still serve only ourself?"
Yes, it does. For example, I'm pretty sure that there's about 6 million Jews (not to mention their families) who wish that Hitler would have chosen a non-violent politically pleasing pathway rather than the violent one he in fact chose.
"Does it matter then if we achieve the approval of men or not, if we have rejected God?"
It is not about achieving the approval of men. It is about loving our neighbor as ourselves, striving to follow God's commands to the best of our abilities, and all the other things a good and obedient Christian is called to do.
"How does your definition of "human" fit with the potential to be redeemed? Is the mere act of repentance a transition from less human to more human?"
Certainly. There are few things on the earth more likely to drive men towards living in a way God wants us to live than genuine repentence.
"Did the man on the cross next to Jesus become more human without any other act than acknowledging his own guilt?"
Yes, I think so. But I'd be a little wary about concluding too much from that. Complete changes of heart moments before death are possible, but rare. Usually there is a lot of life to be lived between repentance and the end of our lives. And in that window of time, if we don't live out our faith in deed, one has to question the sincerity of the original conversion.
"Or was he still inhuman or less human because of what he had done?"
Through his evil act of murder, he certainly created havoc and misery on this earth. In scripture, it seems that God has forgiven him for this evil he has done. That's great, but again, the question is what we ought to conclude based on this. If we conclude that God thinks murder is okay so long as you say some magic words before you die, I think that's a very tough conclusion to reconcile with the whole of scripture. Remember, we are talking about a God who wants men to live together in harmony. A God who flooded the world solely because all but a few people treated each other miserably. Disobediance to God stains our souls and is not something we should take lightly.
"Is it our own actions, or the grace of God that redeems us?"
The grace of God can redeem any of us at any time, obviously. He is God and we are not. But I believe (and the Bible argues strongly in favor of this notion) that if we use this fact as an excuse or a crutch to excuse evil or (worse still) to argue that God doesn't care about evil and that it doesn't have any ultimate impact, we are on very shaky ground indeed.
Posted in: Does our taxes paid to the government used for entitlements qualify as part of our tithing?
Should paying secular bureaucrats to fund and administer government programs count as a tithe because some of those programs help poor people? No, of course not.
But does the fact that most Americans are required at gunpoint to pay close to (if not more than) half their income in taxes (federal income, state income, property, sales, gas, etc.) to the government make it MUCH, MUCH harder to tithe? Of course it does.
Posted in: Are You Prejudiced and the Chick-fil-A Controversy
Thanks for the incredibly thoughtful reply. I'll have to mull that over a bit.... but my initial reaction is that what you say makes sense
Posted in: Are You Prejudiced and the Chick-fil-A Controversy
" For example we believe that stealing, killing, fraud, and lying are inappropriate and criminal behaviors. However that does not mean we believe the person committing those acts are any less human that we are. "
Actually, that's exactly what it means. Jesus was the most fully human person who ever lived, precisely because He did not sin. that is the target we should be striving for. Of course, none of us will ever hit it, but those who strive to and come closer are more fully human than those who do not.
In other words, I believe Mother Thresa was more fully human than Hitler. The fact that someone affiliated with the church would teach otherwise should be quite disturbing to all of us.
Posted in: Are You Prejudiced and the Chick-fil-A Controversy
I didn't say our humanity is dependent on our perfection. Like I said, no man can ever be perfect. But I do firmly believe that when we repeatedly choose the evil over the good, we harden our hearts and forsake a bit of our humanity. It is the folks like the murderers in Aurora and Oak Creek who we rightly call "monsters". The habit of evil corrodes the human heart.
Man has an animalistic nature and a Godly nature. Again, we cannot be perfect, but we can choose whether or not to completely reject any attempt at living a holy life. If we make that unfortunate choice, we become more selfish and narcissistic and less empathetic and kind-hearted.... in other words, less fully human.
Posted in: Are You Prejudiced and the Chick-fil-A Controversy
"Ryan, perhaps you ought to define what you mean by human."
One of the biggest differences between humans and animals is that we know good and evil and can strive towards good. The more we do this, the more human we are.
"If we have rejected God, are we then not living by our "animalistic" nature, as you term it?"
Well there are morally confused Christians and moral atheists, but certainly on the whole, I think the person who knows there is a God who loves us and cares about how we behave in this world is more likely to strive towards the good.
"Does it matter then if we choose a violent or coercive pathway, or a politically pleasing persuasive pathway while we still serve only ourself?"
Yes, it does. For example, I'm pretty sure that there's about 6 million Jews (not to mention their families) who wish that Hitler would have chosen a non-violent politically pleasing pathway rather than the violent one he in fact chose.
"Does it matter then if we achieve the approval of men or not, if we have rejected God?"
It is not about achieving the approval of men. It is about loving our neighbor as ourselves, striving to follow God's commands to the best of our abilities, and all the other things a good and obedient Christian is called to do.
"How does your definition of "human" fit with the potential to be redeemed? Is the mere act of repentance a transition from less human to more human?"
Certainly. There are few things on the earth more likely to drive men towards living in a way God wants us to live than genuine repentence.
"Did the man on the cross next to Jesus become more human without any other act than acknowledging his own guilt?"
Yes, I think so. But I'd be a little wary about concluding too much from that. Complete changes of heart moments before death are possible, but rare. Usually there is a lot of life to be lived between repentance and the end of our lives. And in that window of time, if we don't live out our faith in deed, one has to question the sincerity of the original conversion.
"Or was he still inhuman or less human because of what he had done?"
Through his evil act of murder, he certainly created havoc and misery on this earth. In scripture, it seems that God has forgiven him for this evil he has done. That's great, but again, the question is what we ought to conclude based on this. If we conclude that God thinks murder is okay so long as you say some magic words before you die, I think that's a very tough conclusion to reconcile with the whole of scripture. Remember, we are talking about a God who wants men to live together in harmony. A God who flooded the world solely because all but a few people treated each other miserably. Disobediance to God stains our souls and is not something we should take lightly.
"Is it our own actions, or the grace of God that redeems us?"
The grace of God can redeem any of us at any time, obviously. He is God and we are not. But I believe (and the Bible argues strongly in favor of this notion) that if we use this fact as an excuse or a crutch to excuse evil or (worse still) to argue that God doesn't care about evil and that it doesn't have any ultimate impact, we are on very shaky ground indeed.