Sam, thank you for this posting. I am leading our adult Sunday School classes this month in a series on Community - What This Means in the Church. It is good to be reminded that, as the body of Christ, we should look to the Trinity as our ultimate example of community. I also have learned a lot from reading Bonhoeffer's book on this subject. Another author I've enjoyed studying is Jean Vanier, founder of L'Arche Communities. He has written several books on community, especially as it pertains to reaching out to those with disabilities.
Thank you for your questions on this topic, Al. With all due respect, I have to answer no to your question on the importance of being connected with church history and tradition. While there is no question that the CRC denomination has a rich history and tradition, expecting our younger members as well as newer members to spend a lot of time on these topics is not what church should be about. I find your title for this post interesting - "Are We Promoting Individualism or Community?" I'd like to suggest that too often we have a tendency to "Promote Denominationalism" through an emphasis on doctrine and church history, instead of "Promoting Christ" through an emphasis of living out our faith within our extended communities. I have been a life long member, almost 56 years, of the CRC and I am just now learning how to reach out to the suffering, homeless, those with disabilities. When Christ was with His followers, He spent more time teaching them by example and by encouraging them to "practice" what they were learning, rather than by studying in a classroom. They learned and practiced loving God and their neighbors. They learned how to reach out with the Gospel, how to disciple the converts and then how to encourage the new followers to reach out to their communities and practice what they had learned.
As the church, we need to be doing the same thing. Our pastors need to be discipling leaders who then go out and disciple others. Our young people, as well as everyone else, need to experience the excitement and frustrations which the first disciples experienced when they were sent out. Placing emphasis on our history will not challenge us to grow in our faith, but placing emphasis on relying on the Holy Spirit to help us as we attempt to reach out and share the love of Jesus will help us to grow in our faith. I am convinced that our young people want to be more than hearers - they want to be doers. It is the mandate of the church to challenge the community of believers to get out of the pews. If we begin to take this mandate more seriously, we will be blessed beyond our wildest dreams.
Are you developing people to be leaders in specific roles such as Cadet counselors or Sunday School teachers? Or is it more of a generalized education of "What is a leader?" Also, are you doing anything specifically to train and develop future elders and deacons? When I have more time I'm going to check out the links in your posting above.
I don't think a teenager has the maturity needed to be an elder or deacon. Having said that, I think it would be a good idea to include them in the council somehow so they can become aware of what it means to lead the church. What I would like to see is more young people, teenagers and post high, given the responsibility of heading ministries in the church - youth groups, Gems, Cadets, Sunday School, etc. This will give them a chance to mature in their roles as leaders. It will also make them feel like they can make an important contribution to the church. If the older generation has been in charge of youth ministries, it's time to turn over the job of leadership. This also gives the older members a chance to look at new ways God might be leading them. If we give our young people a chance to lead in ministry, to experience the joys and frustrations, that will help them to develop their leadership skills. Then they will be ready to lead as elders and deacons. Maybe they will even think of pursuing the call of ministry, after gaining some experience.
Tim, everytime I log into this site, I get the pop up about the new log in procedures. There does not appear to be a way to opt out of reading this even though I've already done so. Can this be fixed?
Thank you for your work and the work of everyone else who works to make this site a success.
Al, when you are talking about church, are you referring to Sunday worship or everything else that we think about such as the ministries that take place throughout the week? i think that's an important distinction.
Thanks for sharing this book, Mark. I downloaded the Kindle version and have been reading it. I appreciate the way the first part of each chapter is written so a laymen can understand it. If we as churches are going to become more inclusive when it comes to including people with disabilities, then we are going to need to learn how to relate to them and their disabilities. This book helps us do that with people who have mental illnesses.
1. You state that Article 52 gives the elders the responsibility to make sure synodically approved songs are used in worship services. Does this also apply to the synodical endorsement of new hymnals? When Synod approved of the new hymnal this summer, did each delegate to Synod read and study every song in the hymnal? Or did they rely on the expertise of the committee assigned the task of putting this hymnal together? When church councils assign people to be a part of the worship committee, do the elders still need to go over every song the committee approves? While it is the committee's responsibility to report to the council, should it not have the support of the elders and shouldn't it be trusted to use appropriate material without having to worry that everything they do will be second guessed? If the council does it's work properly, they will make sure that there are people on the committee who have some musical experience and knowledge of appropriate songs. I know in our church, the worship committee is made up of an elder, who chairs the committee, the pastor, the music director and the praise leader, among others.
2. In regards to Chris Tomlin's song, Indescribable, this is a beautiful song of worship which honors the creativity of our Creator. Taken in this context, the description, untameable, is most definitely appropriate. God's ability to create this world along with all the galaxies and all the atoms that make up everything that exists cannot be tamed. He is indescribable, uncontainable, all powerful and untamable, as Chris Tomlin writes. When we are reminded of how awesome our God is in the words of this song, we can't help but be reminded of Psalm 95:1-7. I belive Chris Tomlin saves the best for last. In the first part of the song we are reminded of God's handiwork around us. In order to accomplish what He did, He has to be a big and powerful God. Yet, in spite of His greatness, we are reminded, "You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same." Praise the Lord!
There are times when the praise team will lead a song right after the sermon. To go up to the stage area they have 2 choices. They can wait until after the pastor has his prayer of application after the sermon or they can walk up during the prayer. The first choice involves the awkward silence you mention above. The second choice can be disruptive for the congregation and also does not allow the praise team to focus on the prayer. How do other churches handle this situation?
What about pastoral care to the community around the church? Everything you mention, Neil, refers to those within the church family. As we seek to become more missional and reach out more to our communities we are going to be confronted with many more issues. Who is going to deal with these issues? The pastor, elders, care team, other? Do we respond in the same way to needs of community as we do with members of our church family? As churches, we have lots of expectations for our pastors. Does that include spending a lot of time dealing with community issues? Just some things to think about.
Could it be that our whole process of electing elders and deacons neads to be changed? In our church (and I assume in most CRC churches) we serve 3 year terms, each year 2 are retired and 2 are elected to replace them. It doesn't take long in a congregation of around 200 members to exaust the list of possible candidates. You pretty much can expect to recieve "the letter" 3 years after your last term of service. Maybe, instead of going through this revolving door, we should examine the role of elder a little closer. As elders, we have been studying the book, "The Shepherd Leader" by Timothy Witmer, which is an excellent book on how to be an effective leader in the church. It talks about the importance of shepherding leadership in the Bible and how we can apply this in our roles today. When the church first began with the preaching of Paul and Peter and other apostles, elders played a very important part in the new churches. They filled the roles of teachers and administrators. Over the years, many of these responsibilities have been transferred to the pastor.
What I'm wondering is:
1) Is everyone quallified to be an elder? I don't think so. We have all been given certain gifts to use to God's glory.
2) Does the term of elder need to be limited to 3 or 4 years? Is there evidence in the Bible that there were elections for the office of elder or were they annointed to this office for life?
3) If we are going to continue with limited terms of service, there should be a better way of preparing men and women for this office than simply letting them stumble through their first year. I'd like to hear stories from other churches on how they train their elders and future elders.
Before I became an elder, I knew it was an important job in the church. What I did not know, were the admonitions in Scripture for leaders of the church. As God's chosen leaders, we have a great responsibility to care for the flock. It takes time to build a relationship with the members as a shepherd leader. Is 3 years enough time to do that?
Posted in: Serving in Oneness: Post-Easter Thoughts on Christian Community
Sam, thank you for this posting. I am leading our adult Sunday School classes this month in a series on Community - What This Means in the Church. It is good to be reminded that, as the body of Christ, we should look to the Trinity as our ultimate example of community. I also have learned a lot from reading Bonhoeffer's book on this subject. Another author I've enjoyed studying is Jean Vanier, founder of L'Arche Communities. He has written several books on community, especially as it pertains to reaching out to those with disabilities.
Posted in: Are We Promoting Individualism or Community?
Thank you for your questions on this topic, Al. With all due respect, I have to answer no to your question on the importance of being connected with church history and tradition. While there is no question that the CRC denomination has a rich history and tradition, expecting our younger members as well as newer members to spend a lot of time on these topics is not what church should be about. I find your title for this post interesting - "Are We Promoting Individualism or Community?" I'd like to suggest that too often we have a tendency to "Promote Denominationalism" through an emphasis on doctrine and church history, instead of "Promoting Christ" through an emphasis of living out our faith within our extended communities. I have been a life long member, almost 56 years, of the CRC and I am just now learning how to reach out to the suffering, homeless, those with disabilities. When Christ was with His followers, He spent more time teaching them by example and by encouraging them to "practice" what they were learning, rather than by studying in a classroom. They learned and practiced loving God and their neighbors. They learned how to reach out with the Gospel, how to disciple the converts and then how to encourage the new followers to reach out to their communities and practice what they had learned.
As the church, we need to be doing the same thing. Our pastors need to be discipling leaders who then go out and disciple others. Our young people, as well as everyone else, need to experience the excitement and frustrations which the first disciples experienced when they were sent out. Placing emphasis on our history will not challenge us to grow in our faith, but placing emphasis on relying on the Holy Spirit to help us as we attempt to reach out and share the love of Jesus will help us to grow in our faith. I am convinced that our young people want to be more than hearers - they want to be doers. It is the mandate of the church to challenge the community of believers to get out of the pews. If we begin to take this mandate more seriously, we will be blessed beyond our wildest dreams.
Blessings,
Steve
Posted in: Developing Leaders
Are you developing people to be leaders in specific roles such as Cadet counselors or Sunday School teachers? Or is it more of a generalized education of "What is a leader?" Also, are you doing anything specifically to train and develop future elders and deacons? When I have more time I'm going to check out the links in your posting above.
Steve
Posted in: How Young Is Too Young For Council?
I don't think a teenager has the maturity needed to be an elder or deacon. Having said that, I think it would be a good idea to include them in the council somehow so they can become aware of what it means to lead the church. What I would like to see is more young people, teenagers and post high, given the responsibility of heading ministries in the church - youth groups, Gems, Cadets, Sunday School, etc. This will give them a chance to mature in their roles as leaders. It will also make them feel like they can make an important contribution to the church. If the older generation has been in charge of youth ministries, it's time to turn over the job of leadership. This also gives the older members a chance to look at new ways God might be leading them. If we give our young people a chance to lead in ministry, to experience the joys and frustrations, that will help them to develop their leadership skills. Then they will be ready to lead as elders and deacons. Maybe they will even think of pursuing the call of ministry, after gaining some experience.
Posted in: One Login, Many Sites
Tim, everytime I log into this site, I get the pop up about the new log in procedures. There does not appear to be a way to opt out of reading this even though I've already done so. Can this be fixed?
Thank you for your work and the work of everyone else who works to make this site a success.
Steve Nyenhuis
Posted in: One Login, Many Sites
I'm using Internet Explorer 8.0 with a medium setting on the pop ups. I don't have this issue with other websites.
Thanks for checking into this.
Posted in: Church is Boring!
Al, when you are talking about church, are you referring to Sunday worship or everything else that we think about such as the ministries that take place throughout the week? i think that's an important distinction.
Steve
Posted in: Review: Ministry with Persons with Mental Illness and Their Families
Thanks for sharing this book, Mark. I downloaded the Kindle version and have been reading it. I appreciate the way the first part of each chapter is written so a laymen can understand it. If we as churches are going to become more inclusive when it comes to including people with disabilities, then we are going to need to learn how to relate to them and their disabilities. This book helps us do that with people who have mental illnesses.
Posted in: Check Out the Music
1. You state that Article 52 gives the elders the responsibility to make sure synodically approved songs are used in worship services. Does this also apply to the synodical endorsement of new hymnals? When Synod approved of the new hymnal this summer, did each delegate to Synod read and study every song in the hymnal? Or did they rely on the expertise of the committee assigned the task of putting this hymnal together? When church councils assign people to be a part of the worship committee, do the elders still need to go over every song the committee approves? While it is the committee's responsibility to report to the council, should it not have the support of the elders and shouldn't it be trusted to use appropriate material without having to worry that everything they do will be second guessed? If the council does it's work properly, they will make sure that there are people on the committee who have some musical experience and knowledge of appropriate songs. I know in our church, the worship committee is made up of an elder, who chairs the committee, the pastor, the music director and the praise leader, among others.
2. In regards to Chris Tomlin's song, Indescribable, this is a beautiful song of worship which honors the creativity of our Creator. Taken in this context, the description, untameable, is most definitely appropriate. God's ability to create this world along with all the galaxies and all the atoms that make up everything that exists cannot be tamed. He is indescribable, uncontainable, all powerful and untamable, as Chris Tomlin writes. When we are reminded of how awesome our God is in the words of this song, we can't help but be reminded of Psalm 95:1-7. I belive Chris Tomlin saves the best for last. In the first part of the song we are reminded of God's handiwork around us. In order to accomplish what He did, He has to be a big and powerful God. Yet, in spite of His greatness, we are reminded, "You see the depths of my heart and You love me the same." Praise the Lord!
Posted in: Guest Blog: Worship Flow
There are times when the praise team will lead a song right after the sermon. To go up to the stage area they have 2 choices. They can wait until after the pastor has his prayer of application after the sermon or they can walk up during the prayer. The first choice involves the awkward silence you mention above. The second choice can be disruptive for the congregation and also does not allow the praise team to focus on the prayer. How do other churches handle this situation?
Posted in: Who Delivers Pastoral Care?
What about pastoral care to the community around the church? Everything you mention, Neil, refers to those within the church family. As we seek to become more missional and reach out more to our communities we are going to be confronted with many more issues. Who is going to deal with these issues? The pastor, elders, care team, other? Do we respond in the same way to needs of community as we do with members of our church family? As churches, we have lots of expectations for our pastors. Does that include spending a lot of time dealing with community issues? Just some things to think about.
Steve
Posted in: Why be an Elder? In Response to Wendy
Could it be that our whole process of electing elders and deacons neads to be changed? In our church (and I assume in most CRC churches) we serve 3 year terms, each year 2 are retired and 2 are elected to replace them. It doesn't take long in a congregation of around 200 members to exaust the list of possible candidates. You pretty much can expect to recieve "the letter" 3 years after your last term of service. Maybe, instead of going through this revolving door, we should examine the role of elder a little closer. As elders, we have been studying the book, "The Shepherd Leader" by Timothy Witmer, which is an excellent book on how to be an effective leader in the church. It talks about the importance of shepherding leadership in the Bible and how we can apply this in our roles today. When the church first began with the preaching of Paul and Peter and other apostles, elders played a very important part in the new churches. They filled the roles of teachers and administrators. Over the years, many of these responsibilities have been transferred to the pastor.
What I'm wondering is:
1) Is everyone quallified to be an elder? I don't think so. We have all been given certain gifts to use to God's glory.
2) Does the term of elder need to be limited to 3 or 4 years? Is there evidence in the Bible that there were elections for the office of elder or were they annointed to this office for life?
3) If we are going to continue with limited terms of service, there should be a better way of preparing men and women for this office than simply letting them stumble through their first year. I'd like to hear stories from other churches on how they train their elders and future elders.
Before I became an elder, I knew it was an important job in the church. What I did not know, were the admonitions in Scripture for leaders of the church. As God's chosen leaders, we have a great responsibility to care for the flock. It takes time to build a relationship with the members as a shepherd leader. Is 3 years enough time to do that?
Looking forward to replies,
Steve Nyenhuis