Jeremy, strip mining does seem a bit drastic, but it will be reclaimed... and still be more productive than some natural canadian shield rock scapes. I was even wondering whether we could grow crops on some of the reclaimed areas... just wondering. yes, the north american fleet is relatively inefficient, but that's probably because we like bigger cars to carry stuff, and we have sleepers on most long haul trucks, and we don't use buses like they do in Europe cities. Double deckers everywhere in Dublin and London, for example. More buses than cars almost, it seems. But most homes are brick row housing there also, packed like sardines into streets, without yards, or with postage sized front yards, mostly. Some larger homes, with tall stone fences around them... and garages large enough to accomodate two bicycles, side by side...
Most of the open pit oilsands is already in operation now. From now on it will be insitu bitument, with still a large footprint because of all the injection wells and extraction wells, but without surface mining, and so a much smaller footprint. New technology being discovered all the time, including alternatives to steam injection. Yes, it will be nice to have more alternatives to fossil fuels, but it will still take fossil fuels to create many of those alternatives. In the meantime, we ought to make the transport of these fuels as energy efficient as possible, thus reducing ghg.
It seems to me that education is a greater gift than teashirts. An education that is self-sustaining and self-perpetuating. And of course, faith. What a gift that is. Of course, God has to give it. But he can use us to deliver it.
Sorry to put in three posts here in a row.... but I came across an excellent expose of evolutionary paleotology, put together by Street Church Adelaide. Youtube - "Evolution - A Crumbling Theory ( StreetChurch Adelaide )
Facts are not always facts, even when it comes to empirical science. Evil and falsehood not only wants to pervert scriptural truths, but it perverts scientific and "natural" evidence as well, if the motivation is there.
In regards to radio-active dating methods you should check out these two sites, highlighting that sometimes methods have an error range of millions and hundreds of millions of years. " youtube.com/watch?v=3wMV8Hw99yg&feature=relm fu" on C14
or: youtube.com/watch?v=bGB-PfFSV2w&feature=relm fu on other rock dating methods. (you have to get past a bit of humour first).
Norman, I appreciate most of your comments, even when I disagree. But I would prefer if you didn't start to get personal about my supposed arrogance, or defensiveness or being hard of hearing. All of those things may be true, as I am indeed an imperfect human being. But they are quite irrelevant to the points we are discussing. The reason I gave you a failing mark on your one statement is simply because you asserted something which was obviously not true. This would be obvious to anyone, that you had not "shown" (demonstrated) something when you claimed you had. This has nothing to do with your personality or mine, nor with my arrogance or lack of it. However, I apologize for "giving you a mark" at all; it was not something that I needed to mention.
In terms of creationist propaganda, it might be a good idea if we had a lot more of it. For a couple reasons. Evolutionary propoganda is promoted by most school textbooks without critical analysis. One example, Haeckels pictures of embryos of different species used to prove or show evolution was proven to be a fraud back in 1874 or so, or 120 years ago, and yet evolutionary propoganda kept these pictures in school textbooks for decades after to influence and indoctrinate young helpless school children. For decades! This is not the only example. Pictures of "lucy", the piltdown man, human evolution are all fraudulent and unproven, and yet put into textbooks to influence junior high children. Compared to this, the mild "propoganda" of the creationists amounts to absolutely nothing; it's comparatively insignificant and does not even register in terms of any quantitative comparison.
Norm, two short points. Creation is often used for our present world or universe, as in "Creation Care", or caring for creation.
That Jesus became human, and said he didn't know when the end of the world would come, is not evidence that he "forgot" or didn't understand how he participated in how it began.
Steve, evangelism for God's church is important. The RomC church has been very evangelical, especially in the 16th to 19th century. But don't you wonder a bit? The first statement I read on the news that the new pope made included this: " ...I will pray to the Madonna, that she will save Rome...." Really?
You are not nuts. You are not crazy. Some seminary trained preachers preach the pure word of God, but some don't. Some established churches practices church discipline but some don't. Some administer sacraments purely, but some don't. A missional group may be as much "church" as any of these established churches, and may have the "marks" of the church, or may make similar mistakes or different mistakes than established churches. Preach the word in season, and out of season (indoors, and outdoors, and without doors...).
Richard, you have made several good points. First, about sticking to what we're good at; perhaps you are right, but we should remember that Darwin was trained in bachelor regular degree as precursor to being a parson, not as a scientist. And then, the claim of Ian Juby, robotics engineer, Dr. Carl Baugh, Dr. Austin, Dr. Jerry Bergman(two science PHDs and several master degrees), and other scientists, is that evolutionists are not practicing good science when they extrapolate or theorize about evolution. So that makes sticking to what you are good at a bit of a conundrum.
I think you are right that apologetics is rarely an effective means of evangelism. But that doesn't mean it can't be useful, particularly in removing barriers to evangelism. Just like offering cookies and conversation to someone who needs a relationship with a Christian, so apologetics can assist in reducing intellectual barriers to receiving and understanding who God is, particularly for scientists.
There is also a great deal of difficulty in convincing people that they are sinners in need of the grace of God, if (a) god is random, or randomness is god, (b) if sin is merely evolutionary principles at work (c) if what we see is all there is (d) if there is a god, then he created death, competition, survival and all the associated behaviours so how could any of it be sin. (e) if we are merely more sophisticated animals than the simple amoeba.
As far as the math of amino acids is concerned, of course you are right, there is much room for many amino acids both in the sea and on land, and in fact there are billions and trillions of amino acids present there today, contained of course in dna and proteins and living organisms. The fact that there is room anywhere, such as in space, say on Mars, or Jupiter or between the planets and stars is not really the issue. After all, they do not exist there, even though there is lots of space. The issue is for them to form first, and then combine randomly by chance under random conditions, into useable amino acids which also have to combine randomly into proteins, which then have to randomly combine and form into organisms. The stated odds of this happening were just for one simply protein. Developing all the required proteins for simple life would have been vastly even less likely.
Then these organisms had to have an environment that didn't kill them, which is different than the environment that they would have spontaneously developed in. And it would have had to happen in a lot less than 13 billion years, since all the further evolution would have had to happen subsequently.
And in spite of the great difficulty of randomly arriving at even a simple amino acid, or a simple protein, this still pales in comparison to arriving at an actual organism with all its many requirements for DNA replication and repair mechanisms, as well as all the concommitant necessary parts of even the simple single cell, and having that organism change into another organism in sequences to develop into the huge variety of species we have today, and having that happen randomly. In addition, there are all the biological mechanisms present today for preventing that from happening, which would also have to be overcome, reducing the possibility even further.
The point is not only about the high improbability, but that basing science on such high improbabilities is not really science, but blind faith. Any normal science that looked at something with such a high improbability, would normally postulate and conclude that it would not happen in that way.
This video is just arguing a bit from credibility, from authority, along with some supporting evidence. Ian Juby has another 24 free videos on you-tube dealing with issues such as radiometric dating of rocks and fossils, biogenesis requirements, various fossil combinations, hydroplate theory, sedimentary and igneous rock, Mount St. Helen's, flume sedimentation experiments showing cross bedding, etc., etc. The point is he is doing this from a science perspective. This is more relevant to those who use their five senses to look at nature and observe and make conclusions about what they see. For someone involved in science, it is like offering them cookies and coffee, or inviting them for dinner.
Doug, good comments. Just to expand a bit more on it: As Christians, we all confess that justice (God's justice) demands that we are all unworthy, undeserving. We deserve punishment for our disobedience to God. This punishment Christ took on himself, on our behalf. It is God's mercy that put this punishment, this justice, on to Himself, on to His Son. When we insist on justice only, then we condemn ourselves. It is when we appreciate God's mercy to us, that we are able to grant mercy to others. Indirectly, this concentration on justice alone, seems to remove God's grace from us, or remove us from God's grace.
Justice means paying a worker an adequate wage to buy his food and shelter and not defrauding the employer or his worker. Mercy means giving someone unable to work, or unable to find work, enough to prevent starvation and freezing to death, just as God gave us life, even though we did not deserve it and had lost our real right to it.
Sorry to put in three posts here in a row.... but I came across an excellent expose of evolutionary paleotology, put together by Street Church Adelaide. Youtube - "Evolution - A Crumbling Theory ( StreetChurch Adelaide )
Facts are not always facts, even when it comes to empirical science. Evil and falsehood not only wants to pervert scriptural truths, but it perverts scientific and "natural" evidence as well, if the motivation is there.
Posted in: Climate Change - Wither Now?
Jeremy, strip mining does seem a bit drastic, but it will be reclaimed... and still be more productive than some natural canadian shield rock scapes. I was even wondering whether we could grow crops on some of the reclaimed areas... just wondering. yes, the north american fleet is relatively inefficient, but that's probably because we like bigger cars to carry stuff, and we have sleepers on most long haul trucks, and we don't use buses like they do in Europe cities. Double deckers everywhere in Dublin and London, for example. More buses than cars almost, it seems. But most homes are brick row housing there also, packed like sardines into streets, without yards, or with postage sized front yards, mostly. Some larger homes, with tall stone fences around them... and garages large enough to accomodate two bicycles, side by side...
Most of the open pit oilsands is already in operation now. From now on it will be insitu bitument, with still a large footprint because of all the injection wells and extraction wells, but without surface mining, and so a much smaller footprint. New technology being discovered all the time, including alternatives to steam injection. Yes, it will be nice to have more alternatives to fossil fuels, but it will still take fossil fuels to create many of those alternatives. In the meantime, we ought to make the transport of these fuels as energy efficient as possible, thus reducing ghg.
Posted in: Great Article: Is Foreign Aid Bad for Africa?
It seems to me that education is a greater gift than teashirts. An education that is self-sustaining and self-perpetuating. And of course, faith. What a gift that is. Of course, God has to give it. But he can use us to deliver it.
Posted in: Creation vs Evolution: Impact on Witness and Faith
Sorry to put in three posts here in a row.... but I came across an excellent expose of evolutionary paleotology, put together by Street Church Adelaide. Youtube - "Evolution - A Crumbling Theory ( StreetChurch Adelaide )
Facts are not always facts, even when it comes to empirical science. Evil and falsehood not only wants to pervert scriptural truths, but it perverts scientific and "natural" evidence as well, if the motivation is there.
" ""
Posted in: Creation vs Evolution: Impact on Witness and Faith
In regards to radio-active dating methods you should check out these two sites, highlighting that sometimes methods have an error range of millions and hundreds of millions of years. " youtube.com/watch?v=3wMV8Hw99yg&feature=relm fu" on C14
or: youtube.com/watch?v=bGB-PfFSV2w&feature=relm fu on other rock dating methods. (you have to get past a bit of humour first).
Posted in: Creation vs Evolution: Impact on Witness and Faith
Norman, I appreciate most of your comments, even when I disagree. But I would prefer if you didn't start to get personal about my supposed arrogance, or defensiveness or being hard of hearing. All of those things may be true, as I am indeed an imperfect human being. But they are quite irrelevant to the points we are discussing. The reason I gave you a failing mark on your one statement is simply because you asserted something which was obviously not true. This would be obvious to anyone, that you had not "shown" (demonstrated) something when you claimed you had. This has nothing to do with your personality or mine, nor with my arrogance or lack of it. However, I apologize for "giving you a mark" at all; it was not something that I needed to mention.
Posted in: Creation vs Evolution: Impact on Witness and Faith
In terms of creationist propaganda, it might be a good idea if we had a lot more of it. For a couple reasons. Evolutionary propoganda is promoted by most school textbooks without critical analysis. One example, Haeckels pictures of embryos of different species used to prove or show evolution was proven to be a fraud back in 1874 or so, or 120 years ago, and yet evolutionary propoganda kept these pictures in school textbooks for decades after to influence and indoctrinate young helpless school children. For decades! This is not the only example. Pictures of "lucy", the piltdown man, human evolution are all fraudulent and unproven, and yet put into textbooks to influence junior high children. Compared to this, the mild "propoganda" of the creationists amounts to absolutely nothing; it's comparatively insignificant and does not even register in terms of any quantitative comparison.
Posted in: Creation vs Evolution: Impact on Witness and Faith
Norm, two short points. Creation is often used for our present world or universe, as in "Creation Care", or caring for creation.
That Jesus became human, and said he didn't know when the end of the world would come, is not evidence that he "forgot" or didn't understand how he participated in how it began.
Posted in: The Pope as Evangelist
Steve, evangelism for God's church is important. The RomC church has been very evangelical, especially in the 16th to 19th century. But don't you wonder a bit? The first statement I read on the news that the new pope made included this: " ...I will pray to the Madonna, that she will save Rome...." Really?
Posted in: Of Elephants and Rabbits: Church Multiplication
You are not nuts. You are not crazy. Some seminary trained preachers preach the pure word of God, but some don't. Some established churches practices church discipline but some don't. Some administer sacraments purely, but some don't. A missional group may be as much "church" as any of these established churches, and may have the "marks" of the church, or may make similar mistakes or different mistakes than established churches. Preach the word in season, and out of season (indoors, and outdoors, and without doors...).
Posted in: Creation vs Evolution: Impact on Witness and Faith
Richard, you have made several good points. First, about sticking to what we're good at; perhaps you are right, but we should remember that Darwin was trained in bachelor regular degree as precursor to being a parson, not as a scientist. And then, the claim of Ian Juby, robotics engineer, Dr. Carl Baugh, Dr. Austin, Dr. Jerry Bergman(two science PHDs and several master degrees), and other scientists, is that evolutionists are not practicing good science when they extrapolate or theorize about evolution. So that makes sticking to what you are good at a bit of a conundrum.
I think you are right that apologetics is rarely an effective means of evangelism. But that doesn't mean it can't be useful, particularly in removing barriers to evangelism. Just like offering cookies and conversation to someone who needs a relationship with a Christian, so apologetics can assist in reducing intellectual barriers to receiving and understanding who God is, particularly for scientists.
There is also a great deal of difficulty in convincing people that they are sinners in need of the grace of God, if (a) god is random, or randomness is god, (b) if sin is merely evolutionary principles at work (c) if what we see is all there is (d) if there is a god, then he created death, competition, survival and all the associated behaviours so how could any of it be sin. (e) if we are merely more sophisticated animals than the simple amoeba.
As far as the math of amino acids is concerned, of course you are right, there is much room for many amino acids both in the sea and on land, and in fact there are billions and trillions of amino acids present there today, contained of course in dna and proteins and living organisms. The fact that there is room anywhere, such as in space, say on Mars, or Jupiter or between the planets and stars is not really the issue. After all, they do not exist there, even though there is lots of space. The issue is for them to form first, and then combine randomly by chance under random conditions, into useable amino acids which also have to combine randomly into proteins, which then have to randomly combine and form into organisms. The stated odds of this happening were just for one simply protein. Developing all the required proteins for simple life would have been vastly even less likely.
Then these organisms had to have an environment that didn't kill them, which is different than the environment that they would have spontaneously developed in. And it would have had to happen in a lot less than 13 billion years, since all the further evolution would have had to happen subsequently.
And in spite of the great difficulty of randomly arriving at even a simple amino acid, or a simple protein, this still pales in comparison to arriving at an actual organism with all its many requirements for DNA replication and repair mechanisms, as well as all the concommitant necessary parts of even the simple single cell, and having that organism change into another organism in sequences to develop into the huge variety of species we have today, and having that happen randomly. In addition, there are all the biological mechanisms present today for preventing that from happening, which would also have to be overcome, reducing the possibility even further.
The point is not only about the high improbability, but that basing science on such high improbabilities is not really science, but blind faith. Any normal science that looked at something with such a high improbability, would normally postulate and conclude that it would not happen in that way.
This video is just arguing a bit from credibility, from authority, along with some supporting evidence. Ian Juby has another 24 free videos on you-tube dealing with issues such as radiometric dating of rocks and fossils, biogenesis requirements, various fossil combinations, hydroplate theory, sedimentary and igneous rock, Mount St. Helen's, flume sedimentation experiments showing cross bedding, etc., etc. The point is he is doing this from a science perspective. This is more relevant to those who use their five senses to look at nature and observe and make conclusions about what they see. For someone involved in science, it is like offering them cookies and coffee, or inviting them for dinner.
Posted in: Political Diversity
Doug, good comments. Just to expand a bit more on it: As Christians, we all confess that justice (God's justice) demands that we are all unworthy, undeserving. We deserve punishment for our disobedience to God. This punishment Christ took on himself, on our behalf. It is God's mercy that put this punishment, this justice, on to Himself, on to His Son. When we insist on justice only, then we condemn ourselves. It is when we appreciate God's mercy to us, that we are able to grant mercy to others. Indirectly, this concentration on justice alone, seems to remove God's grace from us, or remove us from God's grace.
Justice means paying a worker an adequate wage to buy his food and shelter and not defrauding the employer or his worker. Mercy means giving someone unable to work, or unable to find work, enough to prevent starvation and freezing to death, just as God gave us life, even though we did not deserve it and had lost our real right to it.
Posted in: Creation vs Evolution: Impact on Witness and Faith
Sorry to put in three posts here in a row.... but I came across an excellent expose of evolutionary paleotology, put together by Street Church Adelaide. Youtube - "Evolution - A Crumbling Theory ( StreetChurch Adelaide )
Facts are not always facts, even when it comes to empirical science. Evil and falsehood not only wants to pervert scriptural truths, but it perverts scientific and "natural" evidence as well, if the motivation is there.
" ""