I'm a rather recently retired pastor and former High School English teacher who's serving by doing some interim work, recently at Manhattan CRC, MT. Shirley and I have established a condo home in Byron Center, near some kids and grandkids, friends and the big lake.
Bonnie, Thanks so much for your well put addition to Jim's original statements. Our history verifies your questions and our continued " "protectionish" is often enough to our shame. Great closing on leaving "final redemption to eternity." We're due for a little more accountability and consequences for our behavior.
Agreed, an excellent, pastoral approach to the work of those sometimes-dreaded SD's. As one who's served in that capacity for over 30 years,I concur that there have been cases of abuse and misunderstanding of the SD's role. Good judgment and a working understanding of the Church Order's wisdom is essential and appreciated by the classes served.
Enjoyed your article...a lot. Reminded me of our son's running up and down the street saying, "My Dad's got a job! My Dad's got a job!" because I was heading to work at a factory after being on staff at a church and carrying a lunch pail.
As one who now looks back, although still riding a tall horse yet, I am glad that I thought I was on the greener side of the grass most of the time. Oh, those days when someone wrote an anonymous letter or two were days of burnt grass, but most often when I saw the freedom of hours, I thought, who else can come and go as I do? Writing sermons is still easier than doing what I thought God's Word was suggesting and sharing people's lives at their best and even worst remains a privilege that only their Dr's or spouses get to do.
The grass of a shepherd involved in the lives of his/her charges has been something that I've enjoyed most of the time, and consider myself most blessed to be able to say it. As I told a son once on his 10th anniversary. "Well, son, what a blessed and happy ten years you've enjoyed." and he answered, "Well, Dad, be realistic, let's say 9 out of 10 years in total. " Well, that's still 90%, a passing grade and pretty good showing, don't you think?
For a man of your many, and often insightful words, I was more than amused with your use of the word "wobbly" to describe both people and churches. Someone recently, actually it was Al L., asked about the meaning or connotation of "untameable God," and got some interesting responses, including JZ's predictable contribution. Now I'm looking forward to having some others give some interpretation to the word "wobbly churches" and "wobbly characters," in the fear of having it apply to someone no longer eligible for a supervisor in my ministry.
Thanks, Paul, as usual, you've contributed to discussion.
Amen and amen, Paul. The degree of wobblyness just varies and the sooner we all recognize the need for a steadying, if not supervisory hand, the better ministry that we'll be able to do in Christ's name.
Yet to make it compulsory will require some means of enforcing that's meaningful, and our system has not been too amenable to such until now. Until then, we've got to encourage those entering ministry to avoid the "lone wolf" approach. Seek out a good friend, not necessarily one from one's denomination. Not needed at all. I recall all too well, even after having served the church for 6 years in a non-ordained position, I was more than happy to have a Baptism colleague with him I could commisserate etc. but also sense a caring concern for how I was doing ministry. His name was Gordon Patch, and he "patched" me up several times as well as provided needed patches to cover my deficiencies, a wobby beginner.
I'm glad the wobbly church you serve gives you ample time to have these kinds of exchanges. Shalom!
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has feelings like that for a car at times. Great use of such as a parable....of redemption. Enjoyed it immensely. Don't forget to change the windshield washing fluid...lots of baptism symbolism and seeing things clearly again......
Found your post most interesting in the light of my having just finished reading the book as well as the reality of being "on the scene" at this point. (I'm serving Calgary's former First CRC--now RiverParkChurch as their Interim Sr. Pastor.) When I asked Henry W. for some input regarding my serving here, he suggested "Read my book," which I obediently and wisely enough did.
But, having said all that, doesn't qualify me to answer all of your questions. A lot has transpired at the church since. Folks have headed in a variety of directions, and some of the differnces seem very minimal in the light of developments, even denominationally since. A pastor is always steering in a direction. It's impossible to be an impartial referee. When he/she is or becomes the center of the debate, I'd suggest it may be time to have an honest, reality show kind of discussion and determine which group goes where with whom, being obviously honest about why they're doing so. All too often we use all kinds of rhetoric to explain what is really not honest or maybe explainable.
Seems to me that in those kinds of situations, no real listening takes place. We're too busy givng our impressions or opinions and then forget/refuse to listen. Personalities are a reality, and it's best when we're honest about it. Read Acts again and see Paul & Barnabas' approach, with an eventual compromise and reconciliation. How do we keep the focus when persons become the focal point? Anyhow, just some ramblings as I deal with a church/people greatly affected. No conclusions drawn......yet.......or ever. Not mine to do, I think.
Posted in: Of Rob Ford and Pastors
Bonnie,
Thanks so much for your well put addition to Jim's original statements. Our history verifies your questions and our continued "
"protectionish" is often enough to our shame. Great closing on leaving "final redemption to eternity." We're due for a little more accountability and consequences for our behavior.
Posted in: Gone Rogue?
Agreed, an excellent, pastoral approach to the work of those sometimes-dreaded SD's. As one who's served in that capacity for over 30 years,I concur that there have been cases of abuse and misunderstanding of the SD's role. Good judgment and a working understanding of the Church Order's wisdom is essential and appreciated by the classes served.
Posted in: Greener Grass
Norm,
Enjoyed your article...a lot. Reminded me of our son's running up and down the street saying, "My Dad's got a job! My Dad's got a job!" because I was heading to work at a factory after being on staff at a church and carrying a lunch pail.
As one who now looks back, although still riding a tall horse yet, I am glad that I thought I was on the greener side of the grass most of the time. Oh, those days when someone wrote an anonymous letter or two were days of burnt grass, but most often when I saw the freedom of hours, I thought, who else can come and go as I do? Writing sermons is still easier than doing what I thought God's Word was suggesting and sharing people's lives at their best and even worst remains a privilege that only their Dr's or spouses get to do.
The grass of a shepherd involved in the lives of his/her charges has been something that I've enjoyed most of the time, and consider myself most blessed to be able to say it. As I told a son once on his 10th anniversary. "Well, son, what a blessed and happy ten years you've enjoyed." and he answered, "Well, Dad, be realistic, let's say 9 out of 10 years in total. " Well, that's still 90%, a passing grade and pretty good showing, don't you think?
Posted in: Do Pastors Need Professional Supervision?
Paul,
For a man of your many, and often insightful words, I was more than amused with your use of the word "wobbly" to describe both people and churches. Someone recently, actually it was Al L., asked about the meaning or connotation of "untameable God," and got some interesting responses, including JZ's predictable contribution. Now I'm looking forward to having some others give some interpretation to the word "wobbly churches" and "wobbly characters," in the fear of having it apply to someone no longer eligible for a supervisor in my ministry.
Thanks, Paul, as usual, you've contributed to discussion.
George
Posted in: Do Pastors Need Professional Supervision?
Amen and amen, Paul. The degree of wobblyness just varies and the sooner we all recognize the need for a steadying, if not supervisory hand, the better ministry that we'll be able to do in Christ's name.
Yet to make it compulsory will require some means of enforcing that's meaningful, and our system has not been too amenable to such until now. Until then, we've got to encourage those entering ministry to avoid the "lone wolf" approach. Seek out a good friend, not necessarily one from one's denomination. Not needed at all. I recall all too well, even after having served the church for 6 years in a non-ordained position, I was more than happy to have a Baptism colleague with him I could commisserate etc. but also sense a caring concern for how I was doing ministry. His name was Gordon Patch, and he "patched" me up several times as well as provided needed patches to cover my deficiencies, a wobby beginner.
I'm glad the wobbly church you serve gives you ample time to have these kinds of exchanges. Shalom!
Posted in: How the Church Brings Life and Water in Common Ways
Thanks, Paul,
Good read that encourages us. I think Sacramento is blessed to have you as a pastor in its midst.
Shalom,
George
Posted in: A Small Redemption
Ken,
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has feelings like that for a car at times. Great use of such as a parable....of redemption. Enjoyed it immensely. Don't forget to change the windshield washing fluid...lots of baptism symbolism and seeing things clearly again......
Posted in: The Cost of Leadership
Verlyn,
Found your post most interesting in the light of my having just finished reading the book as well as the reality of being "on the scene" at this point. (I'm serving Calgary's former First CRC--now RiverParkChurch as their Interim Sr. Pastor.) When I asked Henry W. for some input regarding my serving here, he suggested "Read my book," which I obediently and wisely enough did.
But, having said all that, doesn't qualify me to answer all of your questions. A lot has transpired at the church since. Folks have headed in a variety of directions, and some of the differnces seem very minimal in the light of developments, even denominationally since. A pastor is always steering in a direction. It's impossible to be an impartial referee. When he/she is or becomes the center of the debate, I'd suggest it may be time to have an honest, reality show kind of discussion and determine which group goes where with whom, being obviously honest about why they're doing so. All too often we use all kinds of rhetoric to explain what is really not honest or maybe explainable.
Seems to me that in those kinds of situations, no real listening takes place. We're too busy givng our impressions or opinions and then forget/refuse to listen. Personalities are a reality, and it's best when we're honest about it. Read Acts again and see Paul & Barnabas' approach, with an eventual compromise and reconciliation. How do we keep the focus when persons become the focal point? Anyhow, just some ramblings as I deal with a church/people greatly affected. No conclusions drawn......yet.......or ever. Not mine to do, I think.