Thank you Bev. If there is one thing that is lacking in the overture #6 (not a perfect document) it is probably the emphasis on prayer for Israel particularly and all it's people between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.
You sent me one of these videos before and these collaborative efforts are wonderful and should be bathed with prayer, when I tried to open it this time it was blocked somehow.
In deed it is great when efforts of reconciliation work and should be encouraged, it is probably more possible in places like Nazareth and Haifa where the military occupation is more relaxed.
Talking about Palestinian Christians and Messianic Jews:
From my experience in Israel/Palestine, the Christian Palestinians are treated about the same as Moslem Christians.
For example we had a meeting in Jerusalem at the office of "Sabeel" meaning "The Way" a Palestinian Christian organization that attempts with other churches to keep the Church alive and relevant while living under a military occupation. So these are like the "Living Stones" or in many cases from the original church for centuries since the time of the apostles, anyway, one of the pastors was a 90 minutes late because he had to go through one or two military checkpoints.
Messianic Jews are accepted in Israel but according to Lisa Loden , a spokeswoman, they are at times harassed and looked down upon.
Plus recently were reportedly rejected from the right of return or "aliya" for Jews around the world or like grand children of Jews but this could likely be challenged in court.
So John, your comments about the "Palestine Media Watch", this has to be a deliberate misinformation outfit, when the name "Monitor" or "Watch" is used then it is likely a site encouraged by the Ministry of Interior in Israel.
There are credible Israeli Human Rights organizations as I mentioned before.
I mean who would put out a photo of a four year old with a toy machine gun?
We do need to be responsible and careful about our sources.
Preferably we should use sources that care for all people of the land and have a track record for justice and human rights or check with "KAIROS" endorsed by the CRC or even our sister church , the RCA have people with a much longer track record then our CRC.
For example:
The "Jerusalem Post" is very nationalistic and often calls Palestinians terrorists or Arabs (because they are trying to erase that name).
The "Haaretz" ( readership of about 4%), apparently the oldest newspaper in the country is in my mind more concerned about the sanctity of all human life and justice for all.
The "Israel Hayom" or "Today" (readership of about 39%) was started by Sheldon Adelson, the well known business magnate and casino owner from Las Vegas that is sold at no charge, also a very nationalistic paper.
These statistics say a lot.
On this Canadian Victoria day long weekend I should be camping or tending to my raspberry bushes and chickens but here I am doing this!
Jason, thank you for your thoughts "...push back against the obsessive "pro Israel" theology of the dispensationalists....often takes on an unbiblical, racist attitutes towards Palestinian Arabs". If you are looking for good reformed theology on this subject then look no further then "Steadfast Hope: The Palestinian Quest for a Just Peace" It is a study guide by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network published by the Presbyterian Church USA www.theIPMN.org
I also agree with Jason and Bev that there is not near enough sound reformed preaching on this subject!
In Michigan you are blessed with excellent reformed teachers/theologians such as Joshua Vis from the RCA with huge knowledge and experience from the Middle East and Gary Burge who is now in Grand Rapids, I love his writings on the prophets as the basis on how Israel should be behaving. And these guys will take you to talk to ALL the people between the Jordan and the Mediterranian! Too bad I am from far away, distant British Columbia!
Overture #6 is there to promote truth, righteousness, justice and reconciliation for us as induviduals, local churches, national and bi national levels. The Office for Social Justice has an important practical role to play in coordination with liaisons in the Middle East as it is has been doing for a while. The CRC has sent out a number of delegations to Israel/Palestine which that has all been very beneficial.
But The Banner could do more in letting all our people know the truth in love what is really true rather then some news outlets with tons of editorial bent.
For example when a Michael Lynke , Reporter of the Human Rights branch of the United Nations comes out with a special report on how thing are in Israel/Palestine then that could be studied and reported on through our social justice people and the Banner as well , again in coordination with people of the CRC and RCA in the region that can verify it. We need to go forward with truth somewhere.
There is an excellent report from the CRC Office of Social Justice, I believe by Rev. Shannon Jammal-Hollemans, called
"CRC Engagement in Israel and the Palestinian Territories". It is a MUST read for us all and especially for the Advisory committee of the overture #6. It has a brief history, great suggestions and good statistics up to that date.
The report mentions for example working with groups like Musalaha (Gary's choice), Holy Land Trust and Sabeel ( which I have been involved with).
John, I will attempt to answer your 10 questions now from my own experience in the West Bank and a lot of reading: Question #1 and #2 : I don't think it matters what the land was called except that it was called Palestine in recent history and to this day, well a part is supposed to be the state of Palestine and the other Israel, but as we all know, one was allowed self-determination through a couple of powerful allies and the other not.
And even if Israel is the overall occupying power as is the case: Leviticus 19 : 33 says "When an alien resides with in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God".
It looks like the writers of our modern International Law must have some background from Leviticus when it comes to behaviour of occupying powers! I so wish that modern state of Israel were that light on a hill and I could really revell with the wonderful stirring music of the movie "Exodus"!!
The owning of the land was in the old testament always contingient on Israel's faithfulness; sinfulness resulted in loss of inheritance and so land and righteous are linked.
So, "Is this all about land anyway?" As we already mentioned before in our discussions; No not really, we are to act righteously and love whoever lives in the land. Our Lord was also not interested in establishing a kingdom, his message was simply "to love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself".
The taking of land illegally, forcefully and without regard of the welfare of citizens that were deeded owners of the land for many, many generations is in deed an aweful and terrible thing to witness. It is what my fellow Christian Peacemaker Team members and I protested against in the Jarrah neighborhood in East Jerusalem, it was a great feeling that many Jewish people stood along side of us, even those orthodox guys with black hats who were actually Judaists (spelling?) protesting the Zionist ideology. I still receive weekly reports of this and other human rights abuses from the CPT. Sometimes I don't want to open those messages because it is so depressing and I can't always handle it.
Even though this advocating is difficult work, I meet so many wonderful human beings. In our chapter of "Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East" or CJPME we work together sometimes with "Sabeel" which is Christian or the local chapter of "Amnesty International". We hosted a meeting of CJPME recently and we had an Egyptian, a Palestinian (no right of return), a Jewish man, a woman who is an Occupational Therapist who worked with people in Gaza from the World Health Organization, whom we met from across our house! There was also a young moslim woman of Lebanese Palestinian back ground who became quite emotional and said "I did not know that any Canadians cared about us." I just about cried along with her. So there is reconciliation and Christian love shown right in our neighborhood and I thank God for moments such as these!
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Thank you Bev. If there is one thing that is lacking in the overture #6 (not a perfect document) it is probably the emphasis on prayer for Israel particularly and all it's people between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.
You sent me one of these videos before and these collaborative efforts are wonderful and should be bathed with prayer, when I tried to open it this time it was blocked somehow.
In deed it is great when efforts of reconciliation work and should be encouraged, it is probably more possible in places like Nazareth and Haifa where the military occupation is more relaxed.
Talking about Palestinian Christians and Messianic Jews:
From my experience in Israel/Palestine, the Christian Palestinians are treated about the same as Moslem Christians.
For example we had a meeting in Jerusalem at the office of "Sabeel" meaning "The Way" a Palestinian Christian organization that attempts with other churches to keep the Church alive and relevant while living under a military occupation. So these are like the "Living Stones" or in many cases from the original church for centuries since the time of the apostles, anyway, one of the pastors was a 90 minutes late because he had to go through one or two military checkpoints.
Messianic Jews are accepted in Israel but according to Lisa Loden , a spokeswoman, they are at times harassed and looked down upon.
Plus recently were reportedly rejected from the right of return or "aliya" for Jews around the world or like grand children of Jews but this could likely be challenged in court.
So John, your comments about the "Palestine Media Watch", this has to be a deliberate misinformation outfit, when the name "Monitor" or "Watch" is used then it is likely a site encouraged by the Ministry of Interior in Israel.
There are credible Israeli Human Rights organizations as I mentioned before.
I mean who would put out a photo of a four year old with a toy machine gun?
We do need to be responsible and careful about our sources.
Preferably we should use sources that care for all people of the land and have a track record for justice and human rights or check with "KAIROS" endorsed by the CRC or even our sister church , the RCA have people with a much longer track record then our CRC.
For example:
The "Jerusalem Post" is very nationalistic and often calls Palestinians terrorists or Arabs (because they are trying to erase that name).
The "Haaretz" ( readership of about 4%), apparently the oldest newspaper in the country is in my mind more concerned about the sanctity of all human life and justice for all.
The "Israel Hayom" or "Today" (readership of about 39%) was started by Sheldon Adelson, the well known business magnate and casino owner from Las Vegas that is sold at no charge, also a very nationalistic paper.
These statistics say a lot.
On this Canadian Victoria day long weekend I should be camping or tending to my raspberry bushes and chickens but here I am doing this!
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Jason, thank you for your thoughts "...push back against the obsessive "pro Israel" theology of the dispensationalists....often takes on an unbiblical, racist attitutes towards Palestinian Arabs". If you are looking for good reformed theology on this subject then look no further then "Steadfast Hope: The Palestinian Quest for a Just Peace" It is a study guide by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network published by the Presbyterian Church USA www.theIPMN.org
I also agree with Jason and Bev that there is not near enough sound reformed preaching on this subject!
In Michigan you are blessed with excellent reformed teachers/theologians such as Joshua Vis from the RCA with huge knowledge and experience from the Middle East and Gary Burge who is now in Grand Rapids, I love his writings on the prophets as the basis on how Israel should be behaving. And these guys will take you to talk to ALL the people between the Jordan and the Mediterranian! Too bad I am from far away, distant British Columbia!
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Overture #6 is there to promote truth, righteousness, justice and reconciliation for us as induviduals, local churches, national and bi national levels. The Office for Social Justice has an important practical role to play in coordination with liaisons in the Middle East as it is has been doing for a while. The CRC has sent out a number of delegations to Israel/Palestine which that has all been very beneficial.
But The Banner could do more in letting all our people know the truth in love what is really true rather then some news outlets with tons of editorial bent.
For example when a Michael Lynke , Reporter of the Human Rights branch of the United Nations comes out with a special report on how thing are in Israel/Palestine then that could be studied and reported on through our social justice people and the Banner as well , again in coordination with people of the CRC and RCA in the region that can verify it. We need to go forward with truth somewhere.
There is an excellent report from the CRC Office of Social Justice, I believe by Rev. Shannon Jammal-Hollemans, called
"CRC Engagement in Israel and the Palestinian Territories". It is a MUST read for us all and especially for the Advisory committee of the overture #6. It has a brief history, great suggestions and good statistics up to that date.
The report mentions for example working with groups like Musalaha (Gary's choice), Holy Land Trust and Sabeel ( which I have been involved with).
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
John, I will attempt to answer your 10 questions now from my own experience in the West Bank and a lot of reading: Question #1 and #2 : I don't think it matters what the land was called except that it was called Palestine in recent history and to this day, well a part is supposed to be the state of Palestine and the other Israel, but as we all know, one was allowed self-determination through a couple of powerful allies and the other not.
And even if Israel is the overall occupying power as is the case: Leviticus 19 : 33 says "When an alien resides with in your land, you shall not oppress the alien. The alien shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God".
It looks like the writers of our modern International Law must have some background from Leviticus when it comes to behaviour of occupying powers! I so wish that modern state of Israel were that light on a hill and I could really revell with the wonderful stirring music of the movie "Exodus"!!
The owning of the land was in the old testament always contingient on Israel's faithfulness; sinfulness resulted in loss of inheritance and so land and righteous are linked.
So, "Is this all about land anyway?" As we already mentioned before in our discussions; No not really, we are to act righteously and love whoever lives in the land. Our Lord was also not interested in establishing a kingdom, his message was simply "to love the Lord your God and your neighbor as yourself".
The taking of land illegally, forcefully and without regard of the welfare of citizens that were deeded owners of the land for many, many generations is in deed an aweful and terrible thing to witness. It is what my fellow Christian Peacemaker Team members and I protested against in the Jarrah neighborhood in East Jerusalem, it was a great feeling that many Jewish people stood along side of us, even those orthodox guys with black hats who were actually Judaists (spelling?) protesting the Zionist ideology. I still receive weekly reports of this and other human rights abuses from the CPT. Sometimes I don't want to open those messages because it is so depressing and I can't always handle it.
Even though this advocating is difficult work, I meet so many wonderful human beings. In our chapter of "Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East" or CJPME we work together sometimes with "Sabeel" which is Christian or the local chapter of "Amnesty International". We hosted a meeting of CJPME recently and we had an Egyptian, a Palestinian (no right of return), a Jewish man, a woman who is an Occupational Therapist who worked with people in Gaza from the World Health Organization, whom we met from across our house! There was also a young moslim woman of Lebanese Palestinian back ground who became quite emotional and said "I did not know that any Canadians cared about us." I just about cried along with her. So there is reconciliation and Christian love shown right in our neighborhood and I thank God for moments such as these!