Well, Doug, as I mentioned earlier the publication "Steadfast Hope: The Palestinian Quest for a Just Peace" an excellent study guide by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network from a reformed perspective from the Presbyterian Church USA still available at $10.
Other churches like the Presbyterian church, Mennonite, Reformed Church of America, Episcopalian have their own version and I don't know how many CRC churches but we did have a study group in our East Hill Community Church in Vernon, BC.
So that is one way and there may be others.
The "CRC Engagement in Palestine and the Palestinian Territories" report mostly compiled our church's history to date on the subject, some suggestions going forward and population statistics.
It is too bad that there should be disagreement about that report, one could learn from talking about it.
My point was just that we should be able to trust our own people going to Israel and those that meet them in the "field" so to say.
My experience is that no matter what persuasion of the Christian faith you are whether free evangelical or reformed or whatever coming back from Hebron or Gaza they have pretty much the same story of abuse of human rights and international law.
I am also not saying any party is blameless.
I do recommend going and spending time in Hebron or Gaza, people will not be the same again (not that everybody can just do that).
It is really hard coming back from a place like those (just Hebron for me) and driving home the oppressive conditions people endure for generations now!
So the reason I mentioned Michael Lynke as the Special Reporter for the UN Human Rights organization is because it is not part of any faith group or party and internationally recognized, not because any one mentioned before is more or less righteous.
# 3, Interpretations regarding “Waqf”: Mostly what I found on the internet was that it means an “endowment” which could be on a small personal scale or on important mosques, or other significant buildings. Some are very significant and others not so much, I did not find anything about declaring war, etc. You would have to let me know where to find other explanations?
Probably Islamic laws might vary greatly from let say Pakistan, Indonesia or Palestine; just like there are many laws for orthodox Jews I would think as they are all about laws.
Again overture #6 is not about land and buildings as much but rather the great commandment to love God and your neighbor.
# 4 and # 5, Who has the corner on enmity or antisemitism? It is just as likely Europeans or North Americans, just think of the years of the nineteen thirties and forties or even today.
Actually there were times in Palestine and also Spain where the Jewish, Moslem and Christian societies prospered together.
It is in the forties, fifties and to this day when the Zionist ideology took over that started major discrimination against the local people whether they be Bedouin, Christian, Moslem.
There are Israeli Jews who are not Zionist and just wanted Palestine as before but alas this group is quite small. They are living a bit more like the prophets called for and they were the ones that stood alongside us in protesting house demolitions of Palestinian homes.
Are there no prophets in the land? if anything was missed in the writing of the overture it is like the following:
I should mention prominent groups like “Peace Now” or “Shalom Achshav” in Israel
or in the USA “America Peace Now” This group of mostly Jewish people has organized huge rallies for peace and for a state for Palestinians. Peace Now has extensive maps of illegal settlements and great resources. Prof. Gary Burge: ”When I have been feeling overwhelmed and depressed by the tremendous weight of the injustices in this land, it has been Jewish activists who have given me new inspiration. I believe that the reason of such extensive Jewish effort is because of the prophetic tradition itself. Deep in the heart of Jewish faith is what is ethical and just. This Israeli national harm to their Palestinian neighbors is profoundly offensive to what it means to be Jewish. Orthodox Jews and liberal Reform Jews alike can be seen marching in a city like Jerusalem calling out with the voice of Jeremiah and Amos as witnesses to the crimes they see. Are there prophetic voices in the land? Is Elijah’s still heard? Indeed!”
The Dispensationalist Christian Zionists, I find, are all about the end times and seem to care little of what is going on in Israel/Palestine and is what we of reformed faith should reject.
Preachers like John Hagee seem to have an undying heart for Israel, without any regard of the documented sufferings of Palestinians.
Prof. Marvin Wilson, a specialist on Judaism from Gordon College an evangelical institution says it well: ”The number one obstacle to peace is nationalism, because so often it insists on the denial of the other guy. A biblical view can’t be anti -Arab and pro -Israel, or anti -Israel and pro-Arab. God’s heart is where justice is”.
Christian Palestinianism? A new label, but not mine as I care for all peoples of the land.
“World Vision” the biggest evangelical charitable organization in the world with “the mission to follow our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ in working with the poor and oppressed to promote human transformation, seek justice and bear witness to the good news of the Kingdom of God.”
Unlike other Christian charitable organizations they are not involved in politics but network with the local Palestinian churches like Catholics, Orthodox, Evangelical Lutheran and Aglican.
But secondly their Jerusalem office has become an outspoken, high profile advocate for human rights in Israel because they are in the midst of what is going on.
In much the same way does “Sabeel” works with the local churches to improve the lot of both Christian and Moslem peoples. Rev Naim Ateek is himself a pastor with the Anglican church, their focus is very much encouraging congregations, to minister with women, youth, etc.
But also have an international arm like World Vision.
Naim Stifan Ateek, one of the founders of "Sabeel" or The Way", is a warm, gentle, great Christian man. I met him in Kelowna, British Columbia, as I was part of a committee inviting him to speak to a broad spectrum of the community in the Okanagan Valley in a Mennonite church. We prayed and dined together with pastors of the area.
He is one of the Living Stones of the Land where he went to the Nazareth Baptist school, got his masters and doctoral training in the USA. He does legendary work in encouraging the Christians that are left in Israel/Palestine as well inviting Christians world wide to Bethlehem. I was at his office in Jerusalem where we were supposed to meet one of the local pastors but this pastor arrived very late as he detained at Israeli checkpoints.
It is in my mind not helpful to taint him with the same brush as some rogue example from South America
It is not the idea of this overture to have a detailed discussion about Liberation Theology which does have its place in the context of the suffering church in my opinion.
“The role of the Church in the face of injustice is not to remain silent but to speak truth prophetically against oppression, discrimination, human rights abuses, and to call on governments to uphold international law.
Our denomination has previously acted on its obligation to speak to injustice in a similar situation by addressing “Apartheid” in South Africa. It is time again for the Church to use it’s voice in like manner about the ongoing injustices in occupied Palestine.”
I came across this UN ESCWA Report (that is Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia) from 2017 called “Israeli Practices towards Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid” 71 pages long and I read most of it.
It’s authors are Prof. of International Law, Richard Falk, UN Special Reporter and Virginia Tilley, Prof. of Political Science U of Chicago, who came to the conclusion that the State of Israel is indeed committing the now recognized crime of institutional apartheid against the Palestinian people.
Four Domains:
Domain 1: The use of laws to curtail the capacity of Palestinian citizens of Israel to obtain equal rights with Israel’s democracy.
Domain 2: Highly insecure residency laws for Palestinian residents in East Jerusalem.
Domain 3: Military Law governing Palestinians in the Occupied Territories as a permanent alien population which rejects any claim they may want to make on Israeli political representation for equal rights and conditions.
Domain 4: Policies preventing Palestinian refugees and involuntary exiles from returning to their homes in Mandate Palestine.
These domains interplay on each other to enfeeble Palestinian resistance to Israel’s apartheid oppression.
There is much more on demographic engineering, discriminatory laws, no freedom of movement and practices that cannot be contained in this brief note……we should all read it.
I found at the end of the report under General Recommendations:
“United Nations bodies, national governments and civil society actors, including religious organizations, should formally endorse the principal finding of this report that the treatment by Israel of the Palestinians is consistent with the crime of apartheid.
I don’t know what religious bodies are meant here but I do know that many churches have made resolutions or overtures on this subject.
This is a very pressing issue for us because our governments are heavily involved in this awful stuff and we are implicated in it, the USA much more so and Canada, no matter Conservative, Liberal, all our administrations have supported Israel’s immoral behavior, one just more overtly than the other. Our governments say they support a two state solution but let Israel build more settlements with $4 billion (from the USA) in aid to boot.
There are also counter arguments listed which can be accessed.
This report has yet to make it’s way to the International Court of Justice still.
I feel very sad having to present these things, it feels very heavy on my heart, we have not even talked about Gaza yet. We have been kept in the dark for too many years by a lack of honest reporting. We really do need to pray for all the parties involved and search our souls too.
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Well, Doug, as I mentioned earlier the publication "Steadfast Hope: The Palestinian Quest for a Just Peace" an excellent study guide by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network from a reformed perspective from the Presbyterian Church USA still available at $10.
Other churches like the Presbyterian church, Mennonite, Reformed Church of America, Episcopalian have their own version and I don't know how many CRC churches but we did have a study group in our East Hill Community Church in Vernon, BC.
So that is one way and there may be others.
The "CRC Engagement in Palestine and the Palestinian Territories" report mostly compiled our church's history to date on the subject, some suggestions going forward and population statistics.
It is too bad that there should be disagreement about that report, one could learn from talking about it.
My point was just that we should be able to trust our own people going to Israel and those that meet them in the "field" so to say.
My experience is that no matter what persuasion of the Christian faith you are whether free evangelical or reformed or whatever coming back from Hebron or Gaza they have pretty much the same story of abuse of human rights and international law.
I am also not saying any party is blameless.
I do recommend going and spending time in Hebron or Gaza, people will not be the same again (not that everybody can just do that).
It is really hard coming back from a place like those (just Hebron for me) and driving home the oppressive conditions people endure for generations now!
So the reason I mentioned Michael Lynke as the Special Reporter for the UN Human Rights organization is because it is not part of any faith group or party and internationally recognized, not because any one mentioned before is more or less righteous.
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Comments on Questions 3, 4 and 5:
# 3, Interpretations regarding “Waqf”: Mostly what I found on the internet was that it means an “endowment” which could be on a small personal scale or on important mosques, or other significant buildings. Some are very significant and others not so much, I did not find anything about declaring war, etc. You would have to let me know where to find other explanations?
Probably Islamic laws might vary greatly from let say Pakistan, Indonesia or Palestine; just like there are many laws for orthodox Jews I would think as they are all about laws.
Again overture #6 is not about land and buildings as much but rather the great commandment to love God and your neighbor.
# 4 and # 5, Who has the corner on enmity or antisemitism? It is just as likely Europeans or North Americans, just think of the years of the nineteen thirties and forties or even today.
Actually there were times in Palestine and also Spain where the Jewish, Moslem and Christian societies prospered together.
It is in the forties, fifties and to this day when the Zionist ideology took over that started major discrimination against the local people whether they be Bedouin, Christian, Moslem.
There are Israeli Jews who are not Zionist and just wanted Palestine as before but alas this group is quite small. They are living a bit more like the prophets called for and they were the ones that stood alongside us in protesting house demolitions of Palestinian homes.
Are there no prophets in the land? if anything was missed in the writing of the overture it is like the following:
I should mention prominent groups like “Peace Now” or “Shalom Achshav” in Israel
or in the USA “America Peace Now” This group of mostly Jewish people has organized huge rallies for peace and for a state for Palestinians. Peace Now has extensive maps of illegal settlements and great resources. Prof. Gary Burge: ”When I have been feeling overwhelmed and depressed by the tremendous weight of the injustices in this land, it has been Jewish activists who have given me new inspiration. I believe that the reason of such extensive Jewish effort is because of the prophetic tradition itself. Deep in the heart of Jewish faith is what is ethical and just. This Israeli national harm to their Palestinian neighbors is profoundly offensive to what it means to be Jewish. Orthodox Jews and liberal Reform Jews alike can be seen marching in a city like Jerusalem calling out with the voice of Jeremiah and Amos as witnesses to the crimes they see. Are there prophetic voices in the land? Is Elijah’s still heard? Indeed!”
The Dispensationalist Christian Zionists, I find, are all about the end times and seem to care little of what is going on in Israel/Palestine and is what we of reformed faith should reject.
Preachers like John Hagee seem to have an undying heart for Israel, without any regard of the documented sufferings of Palestinians.
Prof. Marvin Wilson, a specialist on Judaism from Gordon College an evangelical institution says it well: ”The number one obstacle to peace is nationalism, because so often it insists on the denial of the other guy. A biblical view can’t be anti -Arab and pro -Israel, or anti -Israel and pro-Arab. God’s heart is where justice is”.
Christian Palestinianism? A new label, but not mine as I care for all peoples of the land.
“World Vision” the biggest evangelical charitable organization in the world with “the mission to follow our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ in working with the poor and oppressed to promote human transformation, seek justice and bear witness to the good news of the Kingdom of God.”
Unlike other Christian charitable organizations they are not involved in politics but network with the local Palestinian churches like Catholics, Orthodox, Evangelical Lutheran and Aglican.
But secondly their Jerusalem office has become an outspoken, high profile advocate for human rights in Israel because they are in the midst of what is going on.
In much the same way does “Sabeel” works with the local churches to improve the lot of both Christian and Moslem peoples. Rev Naim Ateek is himself a pastor with the Anglican church, their focus is very much encouraging congregations, to minister with women, youth, etc.
But also have an international arm like World Vision.
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
To John Span:
Naim Stifan Ateek, one of the founders of "Sabeel" or The Way", is a warm, gentle, great Christian man. I met him in Kelowna, British Columbia, as I was part of a committee inviting him to speak to a broad spectrum of the community in the Okanagan Valley in a Mennonite church. We prayed and dined together with pastors of the area.
He is one of the Living Stones of the Land where he went to the Nazareth Baptist school, got his masters and doctoral training in the USA. He does legendary work in encouraging the Christians that are left in Israel/Palestine as well inviting Christians world wide to Bethlehem. I was at his office in Jerusalem where we were supposed to meet one of the local pastors but this pastor arrived very late as he detained at Israeli checkpoints.
It is in my mind not helpful to taint him with the same brush as some rogue example from South America
It is not the idea of this overture to have a detailed discussion about Liberation Theology which does have its place in the context of the suffering church in my opinion.
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Overture # 6 Background:
“The role of the Church in the face of injustice is not to remain silent but to speak truth prophetically against oppression, discrimination, human rights abuses, and to call on governments to uphold international law.
Our denomination has previously acted on its obligation to speak to injustice in a similar situation by addressing “Apartheid” in South Africa. It is time again for the Church to use it’s voice in like manner about the ongoing injustices in occupied Palestine.”
I came across this UN ESCWA Report (that is Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia) from 2017 called “Israeli Practices towards Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid” 71 pages long and I read most of it.
It’s authors are Prof. of International Law, Richard Falk, UN Special Reporter and Virginia Tilley, Prof. of Political Science U of Chicago, who came to the conclusion that the State of Israel is indeed committing the now recognized crime of institutional apartheid against the Palestinian people.
Four Domains:
Domain 1: The use of laws to curtail the capacity of Palestinian citizens of Israel to obtain equal rights with Israel’s democracy.
Domain 2: Highly insecure residency laws for Palestinian residents in East Jerusalem.
Domain 3: Military Law governing Palestinians in the Occupied Territories as a permanent alien population which rejects any claim they may want to make on Israeli political representation for equal rights and conditions.
Domain 4: Policies preventing Palestinian refugees and involuntary exiles from returning to their homes in Mandate Palestine.
These domains interplay on each other to enfeeble Palestinian resistance to Israel’s apartheid oppression.
There is much more on demographic engineering, discriminatory laws, no freedom of movement and practices that cannot be contained in this brief note……we should all read it.
I found at the end of the report under General Recommendations:
“United Nations bodies, national governments and civil society actors, including religious organizations, should formally endorse the principal finding of this report that the treatment by Israel of the Palestinians is consistent with the crime of apartheid.
I don’t know what religious bodies are meant here but I do know that many churches have made resolutions or overtures on this subject.
This is a very pressing issue for us because our governments are heavily involved in this awful stuff and we are implicated in it, the USA much more so and Canada, no matter Conservative, Liberal, all our administrations have supported Israel’s immoral behavior, one just more overtly than the other. Our governments say they support a two state solution but let Israel build more settlements with $4 billion (from the USA) in aid to boot.
There are also counter arguments listed which can be accessed.
This report has yet to make it’s way to the International Court of Justice still.
I feel very sad having to present these things, it feels very heavy on my heart, we have not even talked about Gaza yet. We have been kept in the dark for too many years by a lack of honest reporting. We really do need to pray for all the parties involved and search our souls too.