“Both sides” - What does one think when one hears that?
We probably think of two parties that might be fairly equal.
Such is not the case with Israelis and Palestinians.
“One Sided”- addressing one party only. Why is that?
In the Background section of the overture # 6 says: “We hear continued pleas from Palestinian Christians (KAIROS, Palestinian churches document, Moment of Truth, 2009) that Western Christians take notice of the suffering of all Palestinians under Israel’s 52 yearlong occupation. Although we recognize the greater level of injustice practiced against the Palestinians, we acknowledge and lament the sufferings of both Palestinian and Israelis in this ongoing and worsening conflict.
“One Sidedness” explained:
Only one side has prisons and thousands of political prisoners are housed there over all these decades. Every Palestinian family is affected by this. Forty prisoners are currently on a hunger strike.
Only one side is allowed to self-determination, the other side is hemmed in by huge concrete walls. These walls are not only on the “Green” line but there are also many walls creating “Bantustans”, areas created for Palestinians in the Westbank, like in South Africa, where the people are impoverished and socially isolated. Gaza is under complete siege by Israeli military by land, water and air.
One side lives in total freedom, although feeling insecure. They have protection through the law courts, freedom of movement and live as if in a democratic state. The other side live under military law by an occupying power. This other side has no effective protection through the law courts and conviction rates are probably similar to China.
The occupying power also transgresses many international laws like the treatment of child prisoners.
One side lives in relative wealth while in many areas the other side live in fear of having their homes demolished. They are even charged to pay to have it demolished or forced to demolish it themselves.
With many internationals and Jewish Israelis, I was part of a demonstration in the Jarrah neighbourhood near East Jerusalem against home demolitions. I was “egged” by some young Israelis driving by .( I was 69 years old and I never thought this would happen to me).
Again one side lives in privileged circumstances and the other in most areas is discriminated against through unequal rationing of water, electricity, taxes, mobility, housing etc., etc.
I have read there are about 60 discriminatory laws against the Palestinians, but I don’t have the list yet.( I will pursue this list)
Well, I have described enough human suffering for now and this continues to this day , it is not sustainable. We have not even mentioned much about Gaza.
I have read the Declaration of Independence of 1948 which sounded wonderful but it has also been transgressed over and over again. In history what the government says and what it does is very different.
The Background section of the overture states the comparison of the apartheid policies of the South African government to the Palestinian situation. The Church spoke up at that time and it needs to speak up now as well. I don’t know why the Classis BC SE advisory committees could not see that.
Part of the problem is that many pastors have gone on pilgrimage trips to Israel, good in themselves, to get an understanding of where Jesus and the prophets walked , but without gaining an understanding of how the present day population fares. As far as I could tell there were not enough or any on the advisory committee that had a real knowledge of how the Christians and Muslims endure life in Israel/Palestine today. I believe the negative view from the committee was due to this lack of knowledge and I was a lone voice, as we were without a pastor at that time.
Our support team had qualified professionals from the CRC plus advice from a Sociology professor who spent a lot of time in Israel/Palestine. He was involved in a similar resolution in his Mennonite church. However, we are not perfect and we made a mistake in the Grounds section on a rewrite of the overture by one of our team, for which I took responsibility.
It takes an incredible amount of time and fact checking to start an overture and bring it to completion.
I totally agree that reconciliation should be a top priority but we do need to know the facts.
In 1948 the Palestinians for the most part had a thriving society, it was not their fault that they happened to live there and they had nothing to do with what happened in Europe.
I do recommend watching the recent film “!948 Creation and Catastrophe”. It is a fair
rendition of a collection of original voices and footage from 1948.
It is opposite from the romantic movie “Exodus” with its wonderful music that stirred every one’s hearts in the 1950’s. The Jewish people no doubt needed support and empathy.
“As [Jesus] came near and saw the city; he wept over it saying if you, even you had only recognized on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.” Luke 19: 41—42.
We do need to pray as our Lord did for Israel and for our countries for insight and wisdom for justice, reconciliation and peace to come.
Thank you Bev. If there is one thing that is lacking in the overture #6 (not a perfect document) it is probably the emphasis on prayer for Israel particularly and all it's people between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.
You sent me one of these videos before and these collaborative efforts are wonderful and should be bathed with prayer, when I tried to open it this time it was blocked somehow.
In deed it is great when efforts of reconciliation work and should be encouraged, it is probably more possible in places like Nazareth and Haifa where the military occupation is more relaxed.
Talking about Palestinian Christians and Messianic Jews:
From my experience in Israel/Palestine, the Christian Palestinians are treated about the same as Moslem Christians.
For example we had a meeting in Jerusalem at the office of "Sabeel" meaning "The Way" a Palestinian Christian organization that attempts with other churches to keep the Church alive and relevant while living under a military occupation. So these are like the "Living Stones" or in many cases from the original church for centuries since the time of the apostles, anyway, one of the pastors was a 90 minutes late because he had to go through one or two military checkpoints.
Messianic Jews are accepted in Israel but according to Lisa Loden , a spokeswoman, they are at times harassed and looked down upon.
Plus recently were reportedly rejected from the right of return or "aliya" for Jews around the world or like grand children of Jews but this could likely be challenged in court.
So John, your comments about the "Palestine Media Watch", this has to be a deliberate misinformation outfit, when the name "Monitor" or "Watch" is used then it is likely a site encouraged by the Ministry of Interior in Israel.
There are credible Israeli Human Rights organizations as I mentioned before.
I mean who would put out a photo of a four year old with a toy machine gun?
We do need to be responsible and careful about our sources.
Preferably we should use sources that care for all people of the land and have a track record for justice and human rights or check with "KAIROS" endorsed by the CRC or even our sister church , the RCA have people with a much longer track record then our CRC.
For example:
The "Jerusalem Post" is very nationalistic and often calls Palestinians terrorists or Arabs (because they are trying to erase that name).
The "Haaretz" ( readership of about 4%), apparently the oldest newspaper in the country is in my mind more concerned about the sanctity of all human life and justice for all.
The "Israel Hayom" or "Today" (readership of about 39%) was started by Sheldon Adelson, the well known business magnate and casino owner from Las Vegas that is sold at no charge, also a very nationalistic paper.
These statistics say a lot.
On this Canadian Victoria day long weekend I should be camping or tending to my raspberry bushes and chickens but here I am doing this!
Jason, thank you for your thoughts "...push back against the obsessive "pro Israel" theology of the dispensationalists....often takes on an unbiblical, racist attitutes towards Palestinian Arabs". If you are looking for good reformed theology on this subject then look no further then "Steadfast Hope: The Palestinian Quest for a Just Peace" It is a study guide by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network published by the Presbyterian Church USA www.theIPMN.org
I also agree with Jason and Bev that there is not near enough sound reformed preaching on this subject!
In Michigan you are blessed with excellent reformed teachers/theologians such as Joshua Vis from the RCA with huge knowledge and experience from the Middle East and Gary Burge who is now in Grand Rapids, I love his writings on the prophets as the basis on how Israel should be behaving. And these guys will take you to talk to ALL the people between the Jordan and the Mediterranian! Too bad I am from far away, distant British Columbia!
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
A reply to John Span and all:
John, read the overture again and notice that it is not about who owns the land but about the
treatment of one people who have all the power over another people who have little power.
The one has been impoverished by countless discriminatory laws by the
other occupying power for a long, long time.
The prophets always warned ancient Israel “to act justly...do not oppress the alien,
the orphan or the widow….to not shed innocent blood.” Jeremiah 7:5 -7
Remember the story of the prophet Elijah when he spoke to King Ahab “Have you killed and
taken possession?” Ahab had killed Naboth and had taken what was not his. 1 Kings 21:19
There is no blessing for ancient Israel nor the modern state of Israel.
The forced illegal dispossession of homes and land takes place to this day.
Our Lord and Redeemer was not here to form an earthly kingdom but to call all people to Himself.
Jesus changed everything! The apostle Paul proclaimed that there is now no difference between
Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, we are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28
Alongside ancient Israel, the modern state of Israel, we are all grafted into the “New Israel”
for which our Lord died and rose triumphant.
I was in Israel/Palestine, particularly in the Bethlehem and Hebron areas, in October 2015 to
specifically be a witness to what happens there. I went with the Christian Peacemaker Teams.
There were eight of us. (Canadian, American, Australian).
We talked with families who were dispossessed of their homes.
We interviewed parents whose children were dragged off to jail.
I saw how the Palestinian people in Hebron had to live with so many military checkpoints
and the midnight raids they have to endure.
We also spoke with Israeli Jews who are affected by the conflict or work for justice and reconciliation,
so many Jewish people are also deeply hurting from the trauma of what is there.
It was so disturbing that I resolved to speak up and be an advocate on all their behalf.
It is about justice and descent human rights here and now.
The majority of visiting people go to places in Israel where there is relative calm and they naturally
want to avoid the places where conflict is very real. Yes, there is corruption on both sides,
you mention Hamas but Bibi Netanyahu will face the courts one day and not just in Israel.
Yes, the overture may seem to you to be one sided or lop-sided.
I agree with you because the whole situation there is lop-sided.
You can find statistics about this on the website “ifamericansknew.org”.
The injustices done to Palestinians is plain to see and well documented by the United Nations and
Israeli human rights organizations like B’Tselem. I also agree with Gary Roosma that the conflict
has become complex but because Israel and a couple of western powers, mostly with the US support of
$3 billion or more per year of US tax payer’s money. They are letting Israel be content with treating
this as a frozen conflict. So, this keeps the Israelis in Tel Aviv wealthy but insecure;
and this keeps the Palestinians poor and doing most of the suffering.
Brothers in the Lord, I am glad we are having a conversation about this most pressing subject and there
is much more to be said.
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
“Both sides” - What does one think when one hears that?
We probably think of two parties that might be fairly equal.
Such is not the case with Israelis and Palestinians.
“One Sided”- addressing one party only. Why is that?
In the Background section of the overture # 6 says: “We hear continued pleas from Palestinian Christians (KAIROS, Palestinian churches document, Moment of Truth, 2009) that Western Christians take notice of the suffering of all Palestinians under Israel’s 52 yearlong occupation. Although we recognize the greater level of injustice practiced against the Palestinians, we acknowledge and lament the sufferings of both Palestinian and Israelis in this ongoing and worsening conflict.
“One Sidedness” explained:
Only one side has prisons and thousands of political prisoners are housed there over all these decades. Every Palestinian family is affected by this. Forty prisoners are currently on a hunger strike.
Only one side is allowed to self-determination, the other side is hemmed in by huge concrete walls. These walls are not only on the “Green” line but there are also many walls creating “Bantustans”, areas created for Palestinians in the Westbank, like in South Africa, where the people are impoverished and socially isolated. Gaza is under complete siege by Israeli military by land, water and air.
One side lives in total freedom, although feeling insecure. They have protection through the law courts, freedom of movement and live as if in a democratic state. The other side live under military law by an occupying power. This other side has no effective protection through the law courts and conviction rates are probably similar to China.
The occupying power also transgresses many international laws like the treatment of child prisoners.
One side lives in relative wealth while in many areas the other side live in fear of having their homes demolished. They are even charged to pay to have it demolished or forced to demolish it themselves.
With many internationals and Jewish Israelis, I was part of a demonstration in the Jarrah neighbourhood near East Jerusalem against home demolitions. I was “egged” by some young Israelis driving by .( I was 69 years old and I never thought this would happen to me).
Again one side lives in privileged circumstances and the other in most areas is discriminated against through unequal rationing of water, electricity, taxes, mobility, housing etc., etc.
I have read there are about 60 discriminatory laws against the Palestinians, but I don’t have the list yet.( I will pursue this list)
Well, I have described enough human suffering for now and this continues to this day , it is not sustainable. We have not even mentioned much about Gaza.
I have read the Declaration of Independence of 1948 which sounded wonderful but it has also been transgressed over and over again. In history what the government says and what it does is very different.
The Background section of the overture states the comparison of the apartheid policies of the South African government to the Palestinian situation. The Church spoke up at that time and it needs to speak up now as well. I don’t know why the Classis BC SE advisory committees could not see that.
Part of the problem is that many pastors have gone on pilgrimage trips to Israel, good in themselves, to get an understanding of where Jesus and the prophets walked , but without gaining an understanding of how the present day population fares. As far as I could tell there were not enough or any on the advisory committee that had a real knowledge of how the Christians and Muslims endure life in Israel/Palestine today. I believe the negative view from the committee was due to this lack of knowledge and I was a lone voice, as we were without a pastor at that time.
Our support team had qualified professionals from the CRC plus advice from a Sociology professor who spent a lot of time in Israel/Palestine. He was involved in a similar resolution in his Mennonite church. However, we are not perfect and we made a mistake in the Grounds section on a rewrite of the overture by one of our team, for which I took responsibility.
It takes an incredible amount of time and fact checking to start an overture and bring it to completion.
I totally agree that reconciliation should be a top priority but we do need to know the facts.
In 1948 the Palestinians for the most part had a thriving society, it was not their fault that they happened to live there and they had nothing to do with what happened in Europe.
I do recommend watching the recent film “!948 Creation and Catastrophe”. It is a fair
rendition of a collection of original voices and footage from 1948.
It is opposite from the romantic movie “Exodus” with its wonderful music that stirred every one’s hearts in the 1950’s. The Jewish people no doubt needed support and empathy.
“As [Jesus] came near and saw the city; he wept over it saying if you, even you had only recognized on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.” Luke 19: 41—42.
We do need to pray as our Lord did for Israel and for our countries for insight and wisdom for justice, reconciliation and peace to come.
Sorry that this one is so long.
Praying for Shalom and Salaam for all,
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Thank you Bev. If there is one thing that is lacking in the overture #6 (not a perfect document) it is probably the emphasis on prayer for Israel particularly and all it's people between the Jordan and the Mediterranean.
You sent me one of these videos before and these collaborative efforts are wonderful and should be bathed with prayer, when I tried to open it this time it was blocked somehow.
In deed it is great when efforts of reconciliation work and should be encouraged, it is probably more possible in places like Nazareth and Haifa where the military occupation is more relaxed.
Talking about Palestinian Christians and Messianic Jews:
From my experience in Israel/Palestine, the Christian Palestinians are treated about the same as Moslem Christians.
For example we had a meeting in Jerusalem at the office of "Sabeel" meaning "The Way" a Palestinian Christian organization that attempts with other churches to keep the Church alive and relevant while living under a military occupation. So these are like the "Living Stones" or in many cases from the original church for centuries since the time of the apostles, anyway, one of the pastors was a 90 minutes late because he had to go through one or two military checkpoints.
Messianic Jews are accepted in Israel but according to Lisa Loden , a spokeswoman, they are at times harassed and looked down upon.
Plus recently were reportedly rejected from the right of return or "aliya" for Jews around the world or like grand children of Jews but this could likely be challenged in court.
So John, your comments about the "Palestine Media Watch", this has to be a deliberate misinformation outfit, when the name "Monitor" or "Watch" is used then it is likely a site encouraged by the Ministry of Interior in Israel.
There are credible Israeli Human Rights organizations as I mentioned before.
I mean who would put out a photo of a four year old with a toy machine gun?
We do need to be responsible and careful about our sources.
Preferably we should use sources that care for all people of the land and have a track record for justice and human rights or check with "KAIROS" endorsed by the CRC or even our sister church , the RCA have people with a much longer track record then our CRC.
For example:
The "Jerusalem Post" is very nationalistic and often calls Palestinians terrorists or Arabs (because they are trying to erase that name).
The "Haaretz" ( readership of about 4%), apparently the oldest newspaper in the country is in my mind more concerned about the sanctity of all human life and justice for all.
The "Israel Hayom" or "Today" (readership of about 39%) was started by Sheldon Adelson, the well known business magnate and casino owner from Las Vegas that is sold at no charge, also a very nationalistic paper.
These statistics say a lot.
On this Canadian Victoria day long weekend I should be camping or tending to my raspberry bushes and chickens but here I am doing this!
Posted in: ‘Palestine’ and Overture 6: Ten Questions to Consider
Jason, thank you for your thoughts "...push back against the obsessive "pro Israel" theology of the dispensationalists....often takes on an unbiblical, racist attitutes towards Palestinian Arabs". If you are looking for good reformed theology on this subject then look no further then "Steadfast Hope: The Palestinian Quest for a Just Peace" It is a study guide by the Israel/Palestine Mission Network published by the Presbyterian Church USA www.theIPMN.org
I also agree with Jason and Bev that there is not near enough sound reformed preaching on this subject!
In Michigan you are blessed with excellent reformed teachers/theologians such as Joshua Vis from the RCA with huge knowledge and experience from the Middle East and Gary Burge who is now in Grand Rapids, I love his writings on the prophets as the basis on how Israel should be behaving. And these guys will take you to talk to ALL the people between the Jordan and the Mediterranian! Too bad I am from far away, distant British Columbia!