Mark Stephenson

An article reviewing President Barak Obama's remarks about mental health in a speech made on June 3, 2013, says, "The president also pointed out that persons with mental illnesses statistically are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators, and the vast majority of gun violence in America is not linked to people with mental problems. 'I want to be absolutely clear the overwhelming majority of people who suffer from mental illnesses are not violent,' he declared."

Tyl,

Thanks for your comments. A couple thoughts in response:

1. Eiesland's (and my) point is that Jesus bore the marks of his wounds in his glorified body. After his resurrection Jesus had a glorified body which was more unlike than like his body before his suffering and death, so unlike that his disciples did not even recognize him. I believe that we can assume that the same will be true for all who live with glorified bodies in the new heaven and earth. And I believe that we will bear the marks of our lives while here on earth. We will have new identities in Christ, and those identities will not be completely separated from who we were while here on earth. We will be transformed, but we will not be annihilated and turned into something completely different than what we were on earth. Will you see colors in heaven? Like you, I expect that you will, and you will bear the marks of your color-blindness in the new heaven and earth; you'll carry with you a wisdom and insight from living with color blindness now that will enrich your life in the new heaven and earth. Bev's comment last week about living with a deformed hand makes this point much better than I can.

2. The value in speculating about life in the new heaven and earth is to change our behavior and attitudes today. Raising this topic helps us think about the nature of disability, identity, and the value of people today. If it is true that people will bear the marks of their disability throughout eternity, as Jesus bears the marks of his suffering, then it means that God places a high value on our experiences while here on earth, and he values the people having those experiences. Too often, people with disabilities feel as if other people discount them and the contributions they make to life and society. But that's not God's perspective. If we said that God annihilated people and started all over, then who we are on this earth doesn't really matter. But if God values people so much that we bear the marks of this life in the next, then we and our experiences are valuable right now because God values people and their experiences and the wisdom gained through that experience including disabilities and the people who live with them.

Blessings, Mark

Tyl,

Thanks for this discussion. It's good to think carefully about this, and your insights help.

As I said in my comment above, I assume you will see colors in the age to come. Your and my longings are the same. As I wrote in my first blog about my daughter Nicole who lives with severe multiple disabilities today, "Of all the things I long for in the new heaven and earth one of the deepest is this: to see Nicole come running up to me, and say, 'Hi dad, let’s talk.'" Furthermore, I long for the time when I can have a clear-headed discussion with my mom once again; that's impossible now because she lives with severe dementia.

From the little the Bible says, the new heavens and earth will be familiar to us, yet will be dramatically better. Likewise, our identities, which God has shaped while here on earth, will be ours in the new heaven and earth, and those identities will be made new in Christ. Somehow, in the age to come, God will embrace and affirm all that Nicole and my mom are in this age, AND he will make them wonderfully new. To say it another way, in the age to come, we will all "bear the marks" of our lives in this age, and we will be renewed.

I agree with you that the followers of Jesus did recognize him, but the Scriptures seem to indicate that they needed something from the past to recognize him in his resurrected body. With the disciples (Luke 24) it was in the marks of his crucifixion, with Mary Magdalene his voice, and with the couple on the way to Emmaus in the breaking of the bread. Once again, it seems that the age to come will somehow embrace all of this age, and it will be wonderfully different and better as well.

Your question about Jesus showing the disciples his side (John 20) is a good one, and the Scriptures indicate that his piercing is a significant part of his identity (even though it happened after his death), so that he bears that mark in his resurrected body. Isaiah 53 and Zechariah 12 prophesy his piercing, and the apostle John makes sure to show how scripture was fulfilled. I assume that for the rest of us, what happens to our bodies after we die will not be part of our identity in the new heavens and earth.

I mentioned one application to you of value in this discussion, namely, to affirm the value of the lives of people with disabilities today. As I have been thinking about your comments, I think of a second application as well: how pastors conduct funerals of people who had disabilities when they died. When someone dies who did not live with disabilities, pastors usually focus on all the positive aspects of their lives. But when someone with a disability dies, pastors often focus on how they will be made new and different and better in heaven, using words like "freed" and "released" and "made whole." The danger with this emphasis is that it implies that people are better dead than disabled. (See Ben Mattlin's commentary for a pointed illustration.) That's the message of Peter Singer and his ilk, as well as the whole "right to die" movement, but not one that we Christians would want to communicate. Not at funerals or anywhere else. Each life is precious in this age and the age to come, and we Christians need to affirm that truth everywhere, perhaps especially at funerals.

Peace to you too,

Mark

Mike, yes, I think that's exactly the point of the article. SSDI does help many people, but many factors stand in the way of it being an even better law such as these:

1. The law itself discourages people who could be employed, at least part time, because the law prohibits them from working much if they get SSDI.

2. As you point out, many employers won't consider applicants who have disabilities because they fear cost for accommodations and higher health care costs, and the employers can't imagine how the applicant could do the job. Yet, costs have been shown not to go up much for employers who do hire people with disabilities, and many people with disabilities have found creative ways to get things done that us temporarily able bodied people can't imagine.

So both the law and our attitudes need to change.

Tyl and Ben,

Good questions which have me searching the scriptures to better understand why I believe we will maintain our earthly identities in the age to come:

1 Samuel 28: When Saul consulted the spirit of Samuel, Saul spoke with Samuel whose body had died. His identity was maintained after death.

Luke 23: Jesus told the thief on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise.” Jesus refers to him as “you”, implying that the you on this earth was maintained after the thief died.

Luke 24: Jesus was still Jesus after his death and resurrection, and he bore in his glorified body the marks of his suffering.

Revelation 7: The great multitude standing before the Lamb was people “from every nation, tribe, people and language.” They maintained their identities as they were also joined together into one body in Christ.

And one reference from the Heidelberg Catechism, Q&A 49 which says, “How does Christ’s ascension into heaven benefit us? . . . we have our own flesh in heaven – a guarantee that Christ our head will take us, his members, to himself in heaven.” Christ’s flesh, bearing the marks of his suffering, is now in heaven, so I believe that we too who are his children will bear the marks of our own earthly lives, including our sufferings, in the age to come because we will maintain our identities. Even the greatest challenges that we face on this earth, I believe, will be part of who we are in the age to come, because God uses our experiences to shape us to become more Christ-like.

As Tyl says, we have to make a lot of assumptions because Scripture doesn’t say much at all about heaven or the age to come except that the whole creation will be renewed including we ourselves. Just how we will bear the marks of our earthly lives in the age to come is something we can only guess at, which is what we have been doing in this dialogue. We don’t know the answers to most questions we have raised. I apologize that some of the statements I made sounded as if I were sure when in reality I have been guessing.

We keep on raising more good questions for which there are no clear answers. Will conjoined twins on this earth be conjoined in the age to come? Will we remember sin and its effects? Will we remember (and grieve) those who aren’t there? How will the fact that my mother lived the final years of her life with dementia affect her life in the age to come? What will our new lives in Christ be? Will we know how people died (in some cases martyr’s deaths)?

Here are couple things that Scripture does teach clearly.

Matthew 22: Scripture clearly teaches that we will not be married to those who were our spouses on earth.

1 Corinthians 15: Death will be vanquished, and all who are in Christ will rise from the dead with immortal bodies.

In thinking about our discussion, I think that we would agree that we will maintain our identities in the age to come. I’ve given a few Scripture passages to back up that assumption. It seems that our disagreements have rested on just what of our identities will be carried over from this age to the next.

Beyond that, we can’t say much, except as Tyl says so well, “I am convinced that it's going to be a lot better than we can even assume (how's that for using "convinced" and "assume" in one sentence!).” Amen to that!