Allen Kleine Deters

Very interesting and excellent comments.  We have a worship leadership team that reviews new songs we'd like to sing. Regardless of how catchy and easy to sing the song may be, if the lyrics are questionable as to our reformed theology, we may choose not to sing it.  But others we may choose to sing even if they don't speak about God.  But we agree to always include a caviat before the song that puts it into biblical perspective.  For example, the song Breathe, we usually read a psalm or other passage or say something that reflects our need to fully depend on God and his Word.

Here here Chris. Nicely put.  I'll see you at synod.

I just want to say that I think John Cooper nails this whole arguement on the head in his paper "Affirm the Belhar?  Yes, But Not as a Doctrinal Standard."  His points as to why it does not fit a doctrinal standard are excellent.  The Belhar is certainly more a declaration than a confession which is a totally different genre.  It is missing key components to be a confession and is so ambiguous that other faith communities have used it to support their agendas in ways we would not appreciate.

And I'm with Mark that just because we may not adopt it as a confession does not thereby suggest that we are in support of racism and such injustice.  I think the issue will be whether or not it holds the same clout as a confession.  It's ambiguity would suggest otherwise since it can only be understood in the light of the Gospel teachings of the confessions. It is not strong enough to stand on its own as a confession.

Thanks Mark,  what an insightful piece.

I give Kudos to Dick Clark for bringing the reality of life to the screen.  It's good to see a public figure unafraid to show his disabilities.  Make that a triple kudos.

Thanks Sam,

I look forward to reading more and hope to hear more about how other churches are making disciples.

Allen

I've been writing about the importance of discipleship in the church for the past year or so in the small groups network and I would say this is spot on.

I really wonder how we might be able to rekindle true discipleship in the church where people truely commit to deeper communnal conversion allowing the body to hold them accountable and walk them in their growth.  While the Bible does say some folks will make it in by the skin of their teeth, Jesus said he came to give us a life that is full.  That doesn't happen outside of community or without it.

Mission is both an extension of transformation and a learning, discipling process where people learn to use their gifts to be Christ to those outside the community, so-to-speak. I'm a firm believer that discipleship begins before conversion.

I remember the same issues when I was in your ministry way back when through my whole 14 year youth career.  It's always tough to deal with.  I always focused on what it means to be discerning and then let them engage discussion on the wiles of their social culture influence.  While it didn't always stop them from engaging in it many of them considered other options.

I wish there was some way to have a "like" button and/or "post" to Twitter and Facebook for this post.