Lou Wagenveld

Thanks, Liam, for a sensitive thought process yet in the end decisive resolution to this dilemma.  Scriptural, and good missiology.

Ground for the kingdom has been lost in the past for lack of what I'll call "staying power."  Witness El Salvador in the 80s.

fraternally, Lou Wagenveld

Thanks, Shannon, for sharing some resources; of the ones I recognize they will be a blessing to those who pursue them.

What did disappoint me was the very top recommendation - Richard Rohr's Center for Action and Contemplation.  Based on just the last week's worth of postings it can easily be demonstrated how far away he is from the faith "once for all delivered to the saints."  The presumption shown by his disdain for historical Christianity is saddening; more pretentious than charitable.  Does he really think he/CAC leads a "New Reformation"?!  The OSJ can do better than that.

PS  If anyone wants an analysis of the last week's "worth" of postings, send me an email:     [email protected]

Que Dios les acompanye.

I was so relieved to see at the end of the article, the awareness of the coincidence (not) with Reformation Day.  On almost the cusp now of the 500th Anniversary of that historic happening, we should redouble efforts to both educate the next generation and also figure out how we are going to engage our Roman Catholic neighbors constructively.  

Grove City is a nice place, and the college a good one.  (we have relatives there).  Enjoy, and blessings.

Ok then, just to say "hi"!  Will post something also...

Mike, I am so but so encouraged to see you rejoin this conversation in where it went as whatever you want to call it: Dan, what handle do you put on" Business as Mission"?  I don't remember; would it be" Business as business for Christians"?). Welcome back after a couple months away, Mike.  Very much to the point.... of where this was going.

Forgive me if I steer some people away from this to what I got heavily involved in when CRWRC sent out its survey about a "possible name change."  There is always much more behind something like that: sure, "marketing" but "brand recogniton" isn't the whole story either, I'm certain.  So next I copy a little piece of my last Aug 26 entry:

If anyone reading this blog/forum has insights into matters related to what I started with at the top (that Conversation about a Concept of a Global Missions agency) etc.   Well, maybe you saw - otherwise I ask - you to see the NEW blog posting, on this same Global Missions site/link? - entitled: Together Again? Word and Deed.  Please visit/comment some of the incoming responses.  From my career perspective, this is a major moment for the CRCNA and her agencies; more importantly, for her minsitry.

As to the present topic, do carry on.  I support you, even when for time and perhaps expertise I won't be contirubting much!

Oh boy, Daniel!  Thanks for picking this up after nearly 10 months of no posts (I hope Steve's guess that some are reading it  is correct.  And here I'm going out on a limb to see if we can provoke a few more comments:  In the light of how little we know of the real reasons for our E.D. (in the computer generated Spanish translation that went out that became "erectile dysfunction"!) Jerry Dykstra's resignation, might it even be that this long-time super sticky issue was one of the things that generated conflict?  I have no way of knowing and am not trying to start a rumor (yes, maybe surface some facts!).  But as Steve alludes, that closer cooperation between agencies (read especially CRWM and CRWRC) which is "not easy" and  "there are a lot if issues" could very well be one of the areas that continues to plague our denomination.  The latest rumor I hear out this direction (Holland MI) is that CRWRC would like to work more indepentedly so as to have a still wider influence.  ??? (fair/ "appropriate"?) (Now please re-read the initial post on this topic, above)

   Daniel, I was a translator for Partners Worldwide last year, and came away with a couple books and a video that have been informative.  And with ongoing involvement in support of a very small and often ineffective Word and Deed Project in Central America I am well aware of the realities and aspirations of different sectors.  I would caution you on the use of words such as "reaching the globe" (OK we must be World Christians in an age of Globalization) and "huge amounts of capital." While there is tremendous potential in the CRC and others that think and act like us, we still must be duly aware both of the scope of the challenge and the humble limits of our potential.  I'd almost suggest you send your ideas to the IMF!

And know that I am a (retired) "missionary pastor."  I am of the period that experienced the transition from more ecclesiastical mission models and methods to the enterprise and business way of doing the Lord's work.  The jury is still out on what the results of that will be.  Your suggestion that the CRC business community is capable of making a "huge economic transformation" is saying quite a bit; maybe too much?  And to introduce a fascinating ideological element into this discussion, until more of our CRC businessmen genuniely understand where a lot of the developing world is "at" on the   questions of economic models and production methods, we have a lot of work to do.

   Too long already... over to you, and hopefully some others as well, especially non-staff folk (whose services I very much do appreciate).    Lou

Great to get your input, Mike.  Your dad (who forwarded my note to you)  and I have been friends and missionary colleagues two continents apart for all these years; so good now to get some perspective from the next generation.  Our son John is presently in Tanzania and South Africa doing what you suggest: training trainers (in church strengthening and growth.

You've put out a lot of suggestions that our leaders, in the various dimensions of mission, will have to take into account.  Those are in many ways more complex than some of the things we did in our roles.  But if that is what it takes then we must gear up for that.     -Lou

Thanks, Wendy... I'll likely need more clarification as to what you mean by "fiscal autonomy."  You say "our agencies...."

In relation to what Daniel writes an hour later, I'm a bit puzzled.  Not sure who you are in Ethopia with (I know the OPC has had a lot of work there years ago; had to leave, I believe.  You mention "presbiterians."    What I'm wondering is if you have seen what a CRWRC spin-off - Partners Worldwide - is doing.  Check out their websire, see if you can get some ideas from them. They have quite a bit of info online, and some publications. 

Limited time just now, but this to keep us going.     Fraternally, Lou