Lou Wagenveld

Great to get your input, Mike.  Your dad (who forwarded my note to you)  and I have been friends and missionary colleagues two continents apart for all these years; so good now to get some perspective from the next generation.  Our son John is presently in Tanzania and South Africa doing what you suggest: training trainers (in church strengthening and growth.

You've put out a lot of suggestions that our leaders, in the various dimensions of mission, will have to take into account.  Those are in many ways more complex than some of the things we did in our roles.  But if that is what it takes then we must gear up for that.     -Lou

Thanks, Wendy... I'll likely need more clarification as to what you mean by "fiscal autonomy."  You say "our agencies...."

In relation to what Daniel writes an hour later, I'm a bit puzzled.  Not sure who you are in Ethopia with (I know the OPC has had a lot of work there years ago; had to leave, I believe.  You mention "presbiterians."    What I'm wondering is if you have seen what a CRWRC spin-off - Partners Worldwide - is doing.  Check out their websire, see if you can get some ideas from them. They have quite a bit of info online, and some publications. 

Limited time just now, but this to keep us going.     Fraternally, Lou

Lots of good information, and perspective, in your two posts, Daniel.   Steve and Wendy, strikes me now is the time to get someone from the "business as mission" people into the conversation (not really my field, tho it interests me, having translated last year for a PWW conference).

Also Mike Kiekover, who may not be seeing this again - I'll contact him directly.  As you can see on his July post, he has insight and first-hand experience with this kind of topic.     -Lou

Hello Mark and Steve.  Anyone else?!  This convesation supposedly started in March; I haven't seen much of anything on this.  One marginal comment from someone said this wasn't going anywhere... I hope that isn't correct.

Who's at the plate?     Lou

Fronse, greetings, where ever you are (you referenced travels to parts of Africa earlier)...    If you haven't seen the book "My Business, My Mission" you will get some good perspective from people who are doing that.  But you sound as if you are already into things like that; in which case, carry on the conversation with some of the staff people perhaps.  Steve VZ can put you in touch with them ( I have it on his grapevine that someone may be contributing soon to this conversation also)          - Lou

"While you were sleeping...." Wow!  Daniel, you have quite an agenda, and one while not unfamiliar to me, is "bigger than both of us"!  And throw in a whole lot of others for good measure!   I trust that this will get the attention of some folk, both in the trenches and in the  offices.  I'll try to call this piece to the attention of a few people I know, and see where it goes.  Steve, we count on you to get this circulated also (OK, people see this here...good) beyond this site to a few key people you know.

(forgive me, but I'm on three, four other "projects" right now that are stretching me time wise; but I respect the topic/issue)

I may not understand the function of these pages*.  But six months have gone by and this is only the forth post on what could be so very important for missions and the denomination.  Where are the "people in the pew"?  They must be reading  the funnies, or who knows what. 

Fellow retired missionary colleagues, where are you?  Short term missions leaders, where are you? 

Lou

PS *Wendy, maybe I should have known that this topic was for "the upper levels."  But then I ask, why did Rev. Dykstra go public with it, and why was it put on this public/social media page?

Hi Wendy, Fronze, and Daniel; what a trio, what a trip!  Wendy, this site (?) went without a post for over a year.  In another of your posts you use the tantalizing word "lurkers" - I hope there are many who come out of the shadows on topics like this.

   In High School Mr. Hero Bratt was my "hero" also, as Ref Doc teacher, and as debate coach.  To this day I can quote one year's "Propostion: that US Foreign Aid should be limited to technical assistance and disaster relief."  That has served me well all my career as I seek to evaluate economic justice issues and "best practices" of development agencies.

Here I'm just chiming in on your blog.... you have helped keep one of mine alive.  This question for people whose academic and field experience have prepared them for this debate about foreign aid a whole lot more than my pre/seminary studies:  What is it going to take to get people to care about this?  Yes, "church people"?!  Three posts in 16 months!

May I also refer your lurkers to the great conversation that Fronse and Daniel had ongoing where now a "missionary kid" from Nigeria has jumped in with a very cogent experiential piece:  Mike Kiekover, on another blog on this page, way down on one of the most read blogs on the site:  Concept of a Global Missions agency.   -Lou W

If anyone wonders where "Lou" has been, he's been prayerfully watching the comments on this site, and for the meeting of the Synodical Task Force which met this week.  Joel Boot informed me that they saw the "open letter" and will be talking about it again in their November conference call meeting.  I hope they also see all your comments, as John says, Dan's points and perspective "should become a starting point for discussions about CRWM and CRWRC."  Lets hope they are reading this also.

But for the sake of clarification, I want to ask Dan and Rich whom he quotes: "uniting word and deed is a great idea. Merging these two agencies is not. Something essential is bound to be lost.”  What might that "essence" be, and what is lost on me that I don't understand the logic of that sequence?

Dan et al.  This note from El Salvador where I´m spending ten fascinating days again visitng a place where "at the end of last century" we spent five years very existencially living these questions.  The focus of my visit now is talking through a ¨Word and Deed Project" with the small CRC of ES churches.  But I want to respond anecdotally yet pointedly to your wondering about "in Nigeria" (it was Argentina) "did he always have the full force of the resources of CRWRC available to him and the churches he was nurturing?!

Precisely, NO!  It was already by then becoming evident that the agencies were not always on the some page.  I stand to be corrected, by my memory says that three times our Argentine Field Council formally requested a survey visit  by CRWRC to coordinate with needs we missionaries were encountering there, and for which we had neither training nor budget.  One of the reasons we were given from afar for never coming was that "Argentina is a bread basket county"!  Is it lost on any readers now, that not so many years ago Argentina formally went backrupt?!  And to her eternal credit, Catalina Griffeon from the Netherlands spent 30 years practically on her own among the poorest of the poor indigenous in the Chaco region; her earthly credit came from the Argentine government in the form of a Congressonal medal last year.  How wonderful if someone like her and our missionaries related to that ministry could have received a recognition in name of the CRCNA and not just as an individual.   

So lets keep the conversation going.  I´m told we have lots of readers... accompany the Synodical Taks Force on Structure and Culture (hey, if you want to experience a complex one, join me sometime here on a visit to ES!) in their task, and share your perspective on the issues under consideration and discussion.   Yes, HERE! Go for it!  WHO?!  You in the woodwork!

Thanks, Fonse, for the question about our meetings (assuming you meant the ones in El Salvador, from where I returned Monday 17th.  We made progress on the agreement, but the overarching concern were the rains.  Can yo believe 4 to 5 FEETover twleve days.  Floods, mudslides, washed out roads and bridges; a terrible mess and loss. Over 30 drowned or covered by slides.

So the money broiught for the project it was decided to spend it immediately ; a thousand dollars to each church.  On Sat. i got a report from Huizucar (brough food to another church housing 42 people; brough a hot meal to the municipal shelter in the town for 56 people.  So little for such a huge need.  I am helping them to make contacts with CRWRC Canada; just relayed the applicaton forms to the church.  But staff didn't make it sound very hopeful; with so little attention being given to those floods by the news media, it is hard to raise the money.   We are hoping it will come through.

So yes, I note that things have slowed down, and with my being away I'm not sure where things might stand; I did get an indication today that existing funds might not be available, and fundraising is not going well, surely due to the little or nothingof this in the news outlets.

My intention is to find out soon whether the Committee is continuing talks, and when there might be a "listening session."

Has anyone heard about that?      -Lou

Fronse, you say: "...great needs arise everywhere and funds available are too often spread too thin."  How experientially true; having just come back and trying to raise funds to help, I ran into two things: 1) 100 plus deaths in a region are not enough to get the Central American disaster on the evening news, which impedes then a sympathetic giving from donors.  And more importantly for the topic of this thread,  2) another specific evidence of the lack of a good word and deed coordination of our agencies.  The CRWM regional director told me that they don't have any funds for disaster relief, but was sure that CRWRC would be wise in its response.  Well, two hours ago the Canadian office infomred me that they had already sent money  - (since I just returned and was even the first to inform about that disaster, I thought the El Salvador CRCs would be first in line)  - to an NGO, a technically good but liberation theology, Roman Catholic, community based organization, and there would be no more money left for the churches!!  Of course there is more to the story, but that would go beyond the import of this site.

What is clear is that the two agencies continue to each have their own playbook, let alone be on the same page.