Lou Wagenveld

Fronse, you say: "...great needs arise everywhere and funds available are too often spread too thin."  How experientially true; having just come back and trying to raise funds to help, I ran into two things: 1) 100 plus deaths in a region are not enough to get the Central American disaster on the evening news, which impedes then a sympathetic giving from donors.  And more importantly for the topic of this thread,  2) another specific evidence of the lack of a good word and deed coordination of our agencies.  The CRWM regional director told me that they don't have any funds for disaster relief, but was sure that CRWRC would be wise in its response.  Well, two hours ago the Canadian office infomred me that they had already sent money  - (since I just returned and was even the first to inform about that disaster, I thought the El Salvador CRCs would be first in line)  - to an NGO, a technically good but liberation theology, Roman Catholic, community based organization, and there would be no more money left for the churches!!  Of course there is more to the story, but that would go beyond the import of this site.

What is clear is that the two agencies continue to each have their own playbook, let alone be on the same page. 

I've been traveling for over two weeks, but can't believe that there are only two posts on this matter.  Or is it that this is not the "official" site?

At any rate, while I can understand observations that stem from being a "bi-national" denomination, my concern is much more with a denomination that has a bi-furcated witness because of separate agencies that should be carrying out one single and integrated mission for the Kingdom.  Apropos to that, we need the holistic emphasis of the Canadian churches, and they need a little more of the "pietistic" emphasis that the American dimension can contribute.  Let's work together to get it together.  To that end, please see my other blogs under Global Mission.   - Lou

No easy answer to this one.  After years working with Hispanic churches that have their own version of this difficulty,  I just have another question.  I wonder if Korean EMs integrating with Anglo EMs - in places where proximity etc. allow for it - could be a solution for some?

Lou

Hi Ann.  I can only comment that my preference, and I am ordained, is for "pastor."   But that is subjective.

What I can help you with more objectively is the grammer; you wrote: My church calls both my husband and I "pastor." That would be "me"; "...calls ME, not I", correct?  As leaders we must exemplify correct English usage, I feel.

Appreciatively, Lou

Whoops. even more basic is to call people by their correct name.  Sorry, AMY! (not Ann)

Lou

While I was in Language Services as an interpreter/translator, I still was able to get a good sense of what was happening in the uniting conference. At times as I tried to gauge the participation from the floor, I got the feeling that the REC was jumping into the WARC river, and while it made a splash, it later bobbed along barely above the surface. It was evident to me that the WARC people are more accostomed to this kind of process and had the major initiatives already underway.
As to "communion" and "justice" I truly hope that a good balance can be maintained. But at times I got the sensation that some of the more forceful - at times in committee almost strident - voices for justice matters were not willing to slow the pace to allow some of the folk less oriented to that catch up. It would be not only sad but unjust if some sectors/denominations are not given time to adjust and truly experience the union of communion, and choose to paddle in other waters.

Missional discipleship.  Problem: getting them off the couch and the bleachers and into the classroom... or small group

living rooms.   Motivation?  from leadership - pastors and elders, maybe deacons also.

Thanks for this piece, Shane; my ambivalence about short term missions continues after having looked at that phenomena for many years.  I have a question: you mention "community" but not really "church."  Is there coordination with some local church group, or what form does the "community" take in this?  Additional information, please, and your comment about the role of the church - and our Mission also present in the country - when you go with World Renew?

Thanks, Ray.  Helpful information and perspective.  Allow me some commentary and reminisences....

Bsides my three-word "missiology" (Word and Deed) I have a corallary: Christ-centered, Church-based."  Hence in part my question about this.  Next, I suppose I work out of some old paradigms - I've already been retired 10 years!  When I grew up Youth for Christ (and I understand your equivalence; fine) was frowed upon for a couple of reasons - it was para-ecclesiastical, and worse, it took young people away from the churches.  OK, granted; other times, other places now. And I like when the churches can work together and if it takes a para-church group to make that happen, fine.  But I still wonder if the local churches are seeing a reinforcement of holistic growth in their ministries...which leads me to ask:

...about the last part of my response: are both CRWM and World Renew working with the YMCA on this? 

You confused me; looked like this was for new subscribers, but then another post with "if you're subscribed."

So  who is this really for?

Thanks for submitting this, Anneke, via Wendy's post.  As someone deeply interested in and committed to holistic Christian witness, I read this type of post with keen interest.

I sensed, Wendy, something of an "apples and oranges" disjunction in that the title led me think we were going to get something on short term MISSIONS projects.  But the "paper" is about community development; our old bug-a-boo about our terminology... is development "missions."  Of course it is, or should be.  Allow me a couple of comments/questions.

I also sensed something of a disjunction between what sounded like CRWRC's direct work through local/national "staff" as contrasted with the next paragraph, working with local churches. Are those national workers identified as  staff of an international development organization? Are they on loan to other NGOs?  And, are they Christians?  How do they work? Does CRWRC pay church-related staff to carry out the projects?

Back to the question of STMs.  Anneke is correct in her skepticism about much of what is tried.  A story I know about is of a California church that spent $83,000 on a ten-day trip to Uganda to "form a library, build a wall, and start a new church." Yeah, all in ten days!   My concern is to see "church growth" and "community development" so integrated that it becomes an almost seamless witness to a full-orbed Gospel witness.

What I didn't read in the paper is what if anything these good community development models are doing for the increase in the number and depth of the local churches, of whatever denomination.  Lets keep conversing.......

(Disclaimer/clarification: when in the last paragraph "church based development work is twice mentioned, I construe that as CRWRC's N. American church based structure.  And as discussed elsewhere, I hope that is not eroded significantly with the changes that took place over the summer with Synod's approval of a name change... and whatever else may be coming down the pike along with that)

BAck again...thanks Wendy.  I'd used the word "disjunction" twice in my comment.  Partly I got thrown off when a second paragraph started:  "Another way CRWRC works....."  It didn't like those employees with the churches.  

And when we get into the question of disjunction in terms of policy, I don't know whether I should bring up here the difference in CRWRC and CRWM policy.  We (of the latter) had neither funds for deaconal needs, nor permission to hire nationals.  So we were on a different footing with our own relief/development agency.   I'm wondering if that will ever get straightened out.

Thanks for the lead to the other post, which is exactly the kind of thing we need to be focusing on, and what I hope that interns like Anneke get exposed to and underscored in their experiences.  

No comment at the moment then on changes that may or may not take place in World Renew.  Time will tell.