Keith, perhaps we think of it incorrectly to think of a pastor's report to elders vs an elder's report to pastors. Each must report to all the rest, whether there is a pastor present or not. But the report and evaluation is primarily for the purpose of making sure the outcomes and goals are being met with regard to the purpose and vision and objectives of the church as a whole. It should not been seen as primarily a way to assess or grade an individual's performance.
How do we change those five minutes a day? As you get older, you may have an advantage in prayer time, when we don't sleep so soundly anymore. I've found on nights when it is difficult to sleep, or if I wake up too early, then it is an excellent time to pray undisturbed. I end up praying for people and things that I have not thought of for some time. And usually then fall asleep eventually, more peacefully. So I consider God gracious in granting me less sleep, to bring me closer to Him.
Matthew, it sounds like to me, that maybe you are saying that there are two kinds of knowledge: one derived from scripture (what God tells us), and one derived from nature or what we see (secular). This is one way of understanding a difference. Craig is hinting at a problem with that in the sense that secular knowledge comes from what God created. Secular knowledge is based on what we see of God's creation, God's natural laws working.
So what is the relationship to morality, eschatology and purpose, you ask? One relationship is that they are directly connected, not disjointed. The laws that God gave us in scripture are related to the creation that He made. The creation that He made reveals also who He is and what He is like, but often we don't understand this very well unless we know scripture. The Bible says His word is all connected. The word that spoke creation into being, is the word of God, and is also the son of God, who is the Word made flesh.
A secular person will try to separate the secular from God, but as Christians, we know it all belongs to Him. We can also see how God's moral laws for us make sense from an empirical perspective, even thought that is not our primary purpose for obedience to God. Scripture provides with a lens and perspective on how to see the laws of nature.... for example how does predation fit in, or how does murder or adultery fit in to nature.... is it natural or unnatural and why? Our value judgements color how we look at empirical evidence; the empirical evidence is what we see, but does not by itself determine whether what we see is good or bad.
In some cases, it is even difficult to determine meaning of empirical evidence without a value framework, or without a world and life view. Is monogamy good or bad... is pornography acceptible or not.... are bribes another form of taxes.... should parents or government raise children.... is it okay if some species become extinct.... does it matter if poor people starve... etc. Usually world and life views even shape the collection of evidence, the way "secular" news is presented, and the interpretation or investigation of empirical evidence. EG. it is true that both the inquistion and Stalin and Hitler killed many people, but which one is more significant to you, and why?
How do you interpret other phenomena for example. Empirically we know that there were giant camels and mastodons and other mammals and large trees in the high artic and the Yukon, some frozen, and some fossilized; we know that there were dragonflies with four foot wingspans and we know that there are many seashells on the tops of mountains. What we interpret is how they got there, and it makes sense for people to derive that interpretation within the context of their world and life view.
Maybe this gets a little closer to answering your question?
That's beautiful, Bev! I would add that the Miss Martha's can also pray, even while they are busy cleaning, cooking, helping. It would be interesting for us to set some goals: for every minute spent on a computer game, spend one minute in dedicated prayer.... for every minute spent watching the news, spend one minute in prayer....
Have you ever been afraid to pray? Sometimes I find that the answer to prayer is scary! God actually listens, and answers! And it makes me wonder: what am I praying for, is it really what God wants....
In the interests of not making this quite so easy, I would like to point out that a license to exhort was originally so-named in order to distinguish it from preaching. It was thought that those qualified to exhort, were not really qualified to preach, so we would call them exhorters who exhorted, but did not preach. We distinguished three types of service/sermon leaders; those who preach, those who exhort, and those who "read". Of course, in some rare cases, we have preachers and exhorters who mostly read their sermons..... And it is hard sometimes to distinguish between an exhorter who seems to be preaching, and a preacher who seems to be reading, or exhorting.
The church order including the supplements, itself does not specify the origin of the sermons that the council may approve. The reason for council approving the sermons was to prevent heresy or personal attacks, mostly, but the church order does not say that. Nor does the church order indicate how it is to approve sermons or by what method. The thought is that a crc committee approving reading sermons should be good enough, but the church order does not say that. There is no direct indication in the church order as to the possibility of the range of the origin of a sermon that it might approve.
Article 43 seems to deal with a student fund, and the license to exhort (strange that they are put in the same article). There does not seem to be an indication in the article itself that 43b only applies to those who have no intention of entering the ministry.
Article 53 indicates that others (non-preachers and non-exhorters) may be asked by consistory to lead a service. They should refrain from official acts of ministry, including preaching, but may read a sermon approved by consistory. There is no indication as to the method of approval of the sermon. The acts of ministry are "entrusted to the church and its ordained leaders and not to a specific office..."(supplement). Therefore it would seem that consistory could approve someone (presumably an elder) to lead a service, and read a sermon. It would also seem that consistory could approve a sermon. If the "sermon" is written by an ordained elder, there does not seem to be any direct prohibition for approval. The reader cannot preach nor exhort by virtue of not being a preacher or exhorter; therefore he must only "read", thus fulfilling the requirements of the church order as read. Do you have a reference for a decision on this issue?
I have a question for Dr. Henry DeMoor. In an earlier discussion, you indicated that elders could lift their hands for the blessing and benediction when leading a service, even though the church order did not so indicate. I was not able to find a reference for that. Could you refresh us as to when and where that was decided? It's also interesting that your commentary seems to have no difficulty with ordained elders ordaining new elders("laying on of hands"), even though that is indicated to be an "official act of ministry" as well(page 119).
I think this is sometimes a touchy issue for a whole bunch of reasons (I have read your entire church order commentary). Just wondering if it is permissable to sometimes disagree with some of the comments in your commentary?
Henry, I would by no means call what you say in the commentary a bunch of hokey; I think you are expressing some very common understandings. Nor do I hold you responsible for the way the church order is written, or for what it says or doesn't say, nor for what people think it says (when it doesn't). And in this your comment, I would agree with you in any case. But in the issue of whether an ordained elder could write a (pre-approved) sermon, the church order itself does not directly seem to forbid it, if the consistory gives permission. You seem to agree that ordained elders could raise their hands in the blessing, or conduct ordination of elders, which are considered to be official acts of ministry (sort of). Therefore official acts of ministry are permissable for ordained elders, though not often done. The church order does not specify chair of elders for these tasks, so it would seem not restricted to that, although that would be a reasonable way of doing it without restricting another elder if the circumstances seem to advise it under the approval of the consistory.
I agree we should attempt to guide ourselves by the church order, but I suspect you are also aware of the sometimes arbitrary selection of church order articles to live by. The range of options within the parameters of the church order are also larger than many people realize, do you agree? I would also suggest that it is permissable to express some disagreement with the church order and the way it is written, even while respecting the intents of it, and living with it in the meantime.
Could you tell me when synod decided that it was okay for ordained elders to raise their hands and pronounce the blessing/benediction?
Accountability ends up being a pretty negative way of looking at any ministry, including pastors. If the report dealt more primarily with looking at the impact of the work with regard to the goals of the church, perhaps it wouldn't seem so business oriented. Perhaps yes there could be a brief record of the number of visits, hours counseling, times spent on sermons, but maybe the majority of the report could be on activities and progress related to major church goals in which the preacher plays a pivotal role. For example, if one goal is that children learn the heidelberg catechism, then how is that going? Are they excited? Are they confused? Do they get support from parents? Is theire relationship with the Lord growing? etc.
Or if a major church goal is prison ministry, then is that coasing along? Are there spiritual rewards? Are there needs for more help? Does it take too much time? Is God providing encouragements? etc.
If a major goal is ministring to the elderly, then how is that going? Where is there room for improvement? Could they experience more contact with the church? Do they need different facilities? a companion program? Someone to write to? Someone to mentor? Can they find those who want mentors? Can they find penpals, etc.
It's not an evaluation about whether a pastor is making eight home visits per week, and putting in 3.2678 hours of educational updating, or visiting 5 people in the hospital 2.3 times. But its an evaluation about whether the pastor has purpose, direction, passion, success, and hope. About whether the blessing of the spirit shines thru. And whether the word of God flows and accomplishes its purpose. Its an evaluation of whethere the pastor is spending too much time on "business", and not enough time fulfilling the calling of pastor, or preacher, or evangelist.
Two comments Paul: First, to your comment that the same few people might end up serving... remember that the same single pastor ends up serving, if this is not bad by itself, then why is it bad for other officebearers? Second, scripture encourages us to eagerly desire the greater gifts of service... it is an honor to serve in this way. If it is merely a duty or task that "must" be done or that we beg people to do, then we are giving the wrong impression of this God honoring task. (this also applies to other roles and tasks, each of which are important, but office bearers, ie., elders and deacons, are significantly singled out). Third, training ought to occur before they are asked. This training ought to be part of our training as christians. The task of elder is not to be a placeholder, or a name on a sheet, or to merely attend meetings. The qualities of pastoral leadership, teachership, and spiritual nearness to Jesus, will grow in these official roles, but ought to be there already well before. In order for someone to be nominated for such an office/role, they probably should fulfill a prerequisite of teaching a bible study class, catechism class, sunday school, cadets, young people, etc. How else will you know if they have the gift of teaching which scripture suggests? These are just some thoughts for consideration, as I do fully understand the dilemna.
Randy, you have mentioned some good stuff, but it might be useful if you discussed it as a council, rather than simply adopting someone else's policy. It will help you to focus on what is important and what is not, depending on the type of volunteer position or activity, of which there are many types. Some churches adopt a rule/guideline that to be a deacon, you may not drink alcohol or smoke. Many other churches do not. Some would say that divorced people and remarried ought not to serve as preachers or elders. Some would evaluate the inconsistency between behaviour and leading a bible study. In some cases the line of inconsistency is a bit gray, since how do we distinguish weakness from deliberate carelessness?
From a spiritual perspective, discussing this in instances where it may be a concern, will lead to confronting issues and perhaps a better context for spiritual admonition than a simple: "well that person doesn't qualify" type of environment. Hope this helps a bit.
Well, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that your council would not be involved. And of course your council should do whatever it thinks best in this regard; if it wants to look at what others have done, so be it. Only my suggestion to perhaps consider starting from scratch, might help to change the tenor of the discussion in a surprising way. They might take more ownership and might also give more thought to it. All the best.
I agree we shouldn't blame any confession, statement, declaration, testimony, creed, or discussion of it, for our own misbehaviour. But I am not sure why you made the statement. I have not seen anyone doing that. Other than one of the authors of it attempting to use the Belhar as justification for behaviour which is contrary to scripture. And it doesn't seem as if this co-author believes that the behaviour is actually "misbehaviour". Which merely demonstrates the lack of clarity of the Belhar.
Perhaps Mike your judgement that people have slipped into picking sides too quickly, is a bit misplaced. People will obviously have opinions on the appropriateness of a proposed new confession or testimony. That is as inevitable as the opinions of those who wrote and proposed it. It is during the discussion that these opinions either change or are confirmed. Usually the difference in opinions is not primarily based on the facts of the document itself, since often there is agreement on that. The difference in opinions is usually based on the standards applied to the facts, and the insights applied to the longterm impacts of the wording, and whether the wording is sufficiently appropriate and clear not to cause problems in the future, and whether adopting a particular statement in such an official way is appropriate in the context of need for other similar types of statements on different issues.
Posted in: What are best practices for doing the monthly Pastors' reports to the Elders?
Keith, perhaps we think of it incorrectly to think of a pastor's report to elders vs an elder's report to pastors. Each must report to all the rest, whether there is a pastor present or not. But the report and evaluation is primarily for the purpose of making sure the outcomes and goals are being met with regard to the purpose and vision and objectives of the church as a whole. It should not been seen as primarily a way to assess or grade an individual's performance.
Other than that, I agree with all your comments.
Posted in: What are best practices for doing the monthly Pastors' reports to the Elders?
How do we change those five minutes a day? As you get older, you may have an advantage in prayer time, when we don't sleep so soundly anymore. I've found on nights when it is difficult to sleep, or if I wake up too early, then it is an excellent time to pray undisturbed. I end up praying for people and things that I have not thought of for some time. And usually then fall asleep eventually, more peacefully. So I consider God gracious in granting me less sleep, to bring me closer to Him.
Posted in: What Is the Relationship Between Secular Knowledge, Morality, and Eschatology or Purpose in the Context of the CRCNA?
Matthew, it sounds like to me, that maybe you are saying that there are two kinds of knowledge: one derived from scripture (what God tells us), and one derived from nature or what we see (secular). This is one way of understanding a difference. Craig is hinting at a problem with that in the sense that secular knowledge comes from what God created. Secular knowledge is based on what we see of God's creation, God's natural laws working.
So what is the relationship to morality, eschatology and purpose, you ask? One relationship is that they are directly connected, not disjointed. The laws that God gave us in scripture are related to the creation that He made. The creation that He made reveals also who He is and what He is like, but often we don't understand this very well unless we know scripture. The Bible says His word is all connected. The word that spoke creation into being, is the word of God, and is also the son of God, who is the Word made flesh.
A secular person will try to separate the secular from God, but as Christians, we know it all belongs to Him. We can also see how God's moral laws for us make sense from an empirical perspective, even thought that is not our primary purpose for obedience to God. Scripture provides with a lens and perspective on how to see the laws of nature.... for example how does predation fit in, or how does murder or adultery fit in to nature.... is it natural or unnatural and why? Our value judgements color how we look at empirical evidence; the empirical evidence is what we see, but does not by itself determine whether what we see is good or bad.
In some cases, it is even difficult to determine meaning of empirical evidence without a value framework, or without a world and life view. Is monogamy good or bad... is pornography acceptible or not.... are bribes another form of taxes.... should parents or government raise children.... is it okay if some species become extinct.... does it matter if poor people starve... etc. Usually world and life views even shape the collection of evidence, the way "secular" news is presented, and the interpretation or investigation of empirical evidence. EG. it is true that both the inquistion and Stalin and Hitler killed many people, but which one is more significant to you, and why?
How do you interpret other phenomena for example. Empirically we know that there were giant camels and mastodons and other mammals and large trees in the high artic and the Yukon, some frozen, and some fossilized; we know that there were dragonflies with four foot wingspans and we know that there are many seashells on the tops of mountains. What we interpret is how they got there, and it makes sense for people to derive that interpretation within the context of their world and life view.
Maybe this gets a little closer to answering your question?
Posted in: What are best practices for doing the monthly Pastors' reports to the Elders?
That's beautiful, Bev! I would add that the Miss Martha's can also pray, even while they are busy cleaning, cooking, helping. It would be interesting for us to set some goals: for every minute spent on a computer game, spend one minute in dedicated prayer.... for every minute spent watching the news, spend one minute in prayer....
Have you ever been afraid to pray? Sometimes I find that the answer to prayer is scary! God actually listens, and answers! And it makes me wonder: what am I praying for, is it really what God wants....
Posted in: License to Exhort -- May a council use an approved lay person lead in worship, including preaching?
In the interests of not making this quite so easy, I would like to point out that a license to exhort was originally so-named in order to distinguish it from preaching. It was thought that those qualified to exhort, were not really qualified to preach, so we would call them exhorters who exhorted, but did not preach. We distinguished three types of service/sermon leaders; those who preach, those who exhort, and those who "read". Of course, in some rare cases, we have preachers and exhorters who mostly read their sermons..... And it is hard sometimes to distinguish between an exhorter who seems to be preaching, and a preacher who seems to be reading, or exhorting.
The church order including the supplements, itself does not specify the origin of the sermons that the council may approve. The reason for council approving the sermons was to prevent heresy or personal attacks, mostly, but the church order does not say that. Nor does the church order indicate how it is to approve sermons or by what method. The thought is that a crc committee approving reading sermons should be good enough, but the church order does not say that. There is no direct indication in the church order as to the possibility of the range of the origin of a sermon that it might approve.
Article 43 seems to deal with a student fund, and the license to exhort (strange that they are put in the same article). There does not seem to be an indication in the article itself that 43b only applies to those who have no intention of entering the ministry.
Article 53 indicates that others (non-preachers and non-exhorters) may be asked by consistory to lead a service. They should refrain from official acts of ministry, including preaching, but may read a sermon approved by consistory. There is no indication as to the method of approval of the sermon. The acts of ministry are "entrusted to the church and its ordained leaders and not to a specific office..."(supplement). Therefore it would seem that consistory could approve someone (presumably an elder) to lead a service, and read a sermon. It would also seem that consistory could approve a sermon. If the "sermon" is written by an ordained elder, there does not seem to be any direct prohibition for approval. The reader cannot preach nor exhort by virtue of not being a preacher or exhorter; therefore he must only "read", thus fulfilling the requirements of the church order as read. Do you have a reference for a decision on this issue?
I have a question for Dr. Henry DeMoor. In an earlier discussion, you indicated that elders could lift their hands for the blessing and benediction when leading a service, even though the church order did not so indicate. I was not able to find a reference for that. Could you refresh us as to when and where that was decided? It's also interesting that your commentary seems to have no difficulty with ordained elders ordaining new elders("laying on of hands"), even though that is indicated to be an "official act of ministry" as well(page 119).
I think this is sometimes a touchy issue for a whole bunch of reasons (I have read your entire church order commentary). Just wondering if it is permissable to sometimes disagree with some of the comments in your commentary?
Posted in: License to Exhort -- May a council use an approved lay person lead in worship, including preaching?
Henry, I would by no means call what you say in the commentary a bunch of hokey; I think you are expressing some very common understandings. Nor do I hold you responsible for the way the church order is written, or for what it says or doesn't say, nor for what people think it says (when it doesn't). And in this your comment, I would agree with you in any case. But in the issue of whether an ordained elder could write a (pre-approved) sermon, the church order itself does not directly seem to forbid it, if the consistory gives permission. You seem to agree that ordained elders could raise their hands in the blessing, or conduct ordination of elders, which are considered to be official acts of ministry (sort of). Therefore official acts of ministry are permissable for ordained elders, though not often done. The church order does not specify chair of elders for these tasks, so it would seem not restricted to that, although that would be a reasonable way of doing it without restricting another elder if the circumstances seem to advise it under the approval of the consistory.
I agree we should attempt to guide ourselves by the church order, but I suspect you are also aware of the sometimes arbitrary selection of church order articles to live by. The range of options within the parameters of the church order are also larger than many people realize, do you agree? I would also suggest that it is permissable to express some disagreement with the church order and the way it is written, even while respecting the intents of it, and living with it in the meantime.
Could you tell me when synod decided that it was okay for ordained elders to raise their hands and pronounce the blessing/benediction?
Posted in: What are best practices for doing the monthly Pastors' reports to the Elders?
Accountability ends up being a pretty negative way of looking at any ministry, including pastors. If the report dealt more primarily with looking at the impact of the work with regard to the goals of the church, perhaps it wouldn't seem so business oriented. Perhaps yes there could be a brief record of the number of visits, hours counseling, times spent on sermons, but maybe the majority of the report could be on activities and progress related to major church goals in which the preacher plays a pivotal role. For example, if one goal is that children learn the heidelberg catechism, then how is that going? Are they excited? Are they confused? Do they get support from parents? Is theire relationship with the Lord growing? etc.
Or if a major church goal is prison ministry, then is that coasing along? Are there spiritual rewards? Are there needs for more help? Does it take too much time? Is God providing encouragements? etc.
If a major goal is ministring to the elderly, then how is that going? Where is there room for improvement? Could they experience more contact with the church? Do they need different facilities? a companion program? Someone to write to? Someone to mentor? Can they find those who want mentors? Can they find penpals, etc.
It's not an evaluation about whether a pastor is making eight home visits per week, and putting in 3.2678 hours of educational updating, or visiting 5 people in the hospital 2.3 times. But its an evaluation about whether the pastor has purpose, direction, passion, success, and hope. About whether the blessing of the spirit shines thru. And whether the word of God flows and accomplishes its purpose. Its an evaluation of whethere the pastor is spending too much time on "business", and not enough time fulfilling the calling of pastor, or preacher, or evangelist.
Posted in: Elder/Deacon Nominees?
Two comments Paul: First, to your comment that the same few people might end up serving... remember that the same single pastor ends up serving, if this is not bad by itself, then why is it bad for other officebearers? Second, scripture encourages us to eagerly desire the greater gifts of service... it is an honor to serve in this way. If it is merely a duty or task that "must" be done or that we beg people to do, then we are giving the wrong impression of this God honoring task. (this also applies to other roles and tasks, each of which are important, but office bearers, ie., elders and deacons, are significantly singled out). Third, training ought to occur before they are asked. This training ought to be part of our training as christians. The task of elder is not to be a placeholder, or a name on a sheet, or to merely attend meetings. The qualities of pastoral leadership, teachership, and spiritual nearness to Jesus, will grow in these official roles, but ought to be there already well before. In order for someone to be nominated for such an office/role, they probably should fulfill a prerequisite of teaching a bible study class, catechism class, sunday school, cadets, young people, etc. How else will you know if they have the gift of teaching which scripture suggests? These are just some thoughts for consideration, as I do fully understand the dilemna.
Posted in: Where can I find a sample policy regarding ministry standards and expectations for volunteers?
Randy, you have mentioned some good stuff, but it might be useful if you discussed it as a council, rather than simply adopting someone else's policy. It will help you to focus on what is important and what is not, depending on the type of volunteer position or activity, of which there are many types. Some churches adopt a rule/guideline that to be a deacon, you may not drink alcohol or smoke. Many other churches do not. Some would say that divorced people and remarried ought not to serve as preachers or elders. Some would evaluate the inconsistency between behaviour and leading a bible study. In some cases the line of inconsistency is a bit gray, since how do we distinguish weakness from deliberate carelessness?
From a spiritual perspective, discussing this in instances where it may be a concern, will lead to confronting issues and perhaps a better context for spiritual admonition than a simple: "well that person doesn't qualify" type of environment. Hope this helps a bit.
Posted in: Where can I find a sample policy regarding ministry standards and expectations for volunteers?
Well, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that your council would not be involved. And of course your council should do whatever it thinks best in this regard; if it wants to look at what others have done, so be it. Only my suggestion to perhaps consider starting from scratch, might help to change the tenor of the discussion in a surprising way. They might take more ownership and might also give more thought to it. All the best.
Posted in: How do we train Sunday School teachers for the long-term health of our Sunday School programs?
I am curious if there are any churches that keep sunday school going all year round?
Posted in: Can unity be established under constraint?
I agree we shouldn't blame any confession, statement, declaration, testimony, creed, or discussion of it, for our own misbehaviour. But I am not sure why you made the statement. I have not seen anyone doing that. Other than one of the authors of it attempting to use the Belhar as justification for behaviour which is contrary to scripture. And it doesn't seem as if this co-author believes that the behaviour is actually "misbehaviour". Which merely demonstrates the lack of clarity of the Belhar.
Perhaps Mike your judgement that people have slipped into picking sides too quickly, is a bit misplaced. People will obviously have opinions on the appropriateness of a proposed new confession or testimony. That is as inevitable as the opinions of those who wrote and proposed it. It is during the discussion that these opinions either change or are confirmed. Usually the difference in opinions is not primarily based on the facts of the document itself, since often there is agreement on that. The difference in opinions is usually based on the standards applied to the facts, and the insights applied to the longterm impacts of the wording, and whether the wording is sufficiently appropriate and clear not to cause problems in the future, and whether adopting a particular statement in such an official way is appropriate in the context of need for other similar types of statements on different issues.