If you are going to use someone else's sermon wholesale, you might want to consider having an elder read it instead. The main problem with using or reading someone else's sermon is that people can dream up all kinds of reasons why the sermon probably doesn't apply to them. In addition, there is a good likelihood that it won't apply to their situation in a pertinent sense, either because it didn't come from the local situation needs, or because the method of delivery creates a distance. In some cases however, a reading sermon may be preferable to a locally written sermon, hopefully not too often.
I must say that the terminology is troublesome. It is troublesome to think that someone or something is going to mandate a congregation to contract with a professional supervisor for a pastor who they have already contracted with to be a spiritual teacher and leader. While they may decide from time to time to contract with someone to provide special services, such as professional advice for pastors and elders, it is troublesome to think that someone like synod or classis would mandate them to do so. Ultimately, synod and classis have no authority nor mandate to do so. It would be lording it over the churches.
While a new preacher or pastor should probably look for a mentor, someone to provide advice, to answer practical questions, thinking about a mentor as a supervisor is not a good thing, particularly when words like "having the power to convene the elders and pastors should an impasse arise..." are used. These words are landmines in themselves.
So, a good mentor, yes. A professional supervisor, not. Without open minds to accept and seek advice, supervisory power of a non-church member is not the answer. It would create more problems than it would solve, and would lead to exactly the type of hierarchy that we are trying to avoid.
I also think, in agreement with Bev, that it is a fantastic illustration of where our support really comes from. None of our appeals will have much impact if God does not bless the giving, either by the giving itself, or by the results of the giving in the life of the receiver. If we forget that, then all of this is nothing more than money passing from one hand to another.
In my experience with professional organizations, mentors are sometimes appointed for a time for new initiates into the professional organization, although this is not a hard and fast rule. But this only relates to the general conditions of qualifying as a member of the professional organization, not to the supervision of daily work.
Supervisors of daily work and workers, almost always have the responsibility of providing and overseeing and changing workloads, of developing and managing evaluations and appraisals, as well as recommending salary changes or promotions or new job descriptions. Ultimately supervisors have the ability to hire and fire, although they may require the approval of their own supervisor for these actions. So I would be very, very careful about using that type of terminology. It is the wrong term in this case.
My warning is that we will lose the spiritual leadership of these positions and callings if we make too many analogies to careers and professional organizations. It is quite different and important to realize that scripture itself is your best mentor and supervisor, and prayer and bible reading your best discussion with your supervisor. Losing the scriptural focus in any group mentoring or personal leadership mentoring will run the risk of gaining smooth operations with a loss of spiritual impact.
I wonder if we should be thinking about this a bit differently. Wouldn't an organism (people of God) be what builds the instititute? Of course, there is another meaning to institute, such as in "God's institutes his Church". God builds His church, both the organism and the organization. But the church as an institute seems to be the formal trappings, the ceremony, the order, the procedure and facilities, the organization. The church as organism (as simply the people of God) must exist first in order to impliment all of this, to start it or initiate it, to write confessions and songs, to organize services, to provide facilities or locations, before it can become an organization or an institute.
Then there is this: that an institute or organization is more or less dead without the organism. The organism is what lives.
I listened last night to a speaker (on video), a psychologist, a christian who talked about christians having "authority", referring to power in general, but specifically to casting out demons, to shutting up the demons and sending them away. I thought it was a good speech, very biblical, but I have no idea what institute he belonged to, nor what denomination, or even what city. To me he was part of the organism more than part of the institute, if that makes sense. He was more concerned about Christ and about the battle between heaven and hell, between God and Satan, than about what organization anyone belonged to.
The institute or organization as we look at it is mostly earthly, while the organism is the body of Christ, and is eternal.
Ray, youth can certainly be leaders, with or without our help. The question is, how will they be good leaders rather than bad leaders? While giving them authority is necessary, giving them wisdom is even more important. Helping them to understand how to make decisions that are pleasing to God, rather than decisions and plans that are just pleasing to people, is a good place to start. Without that focus, it won't matter whether they are leaders or not. Without that focus, they will simply lead others down the path to perdition, instead of to the glory of God.
Jack, I actually agree with you. I was not comparing youth to older leaders so much as emphasizing that authority without wisdom will lead to problems. And yes, I agree that older leaders are also often "people pleasers" rather than "Christ followers". I am thinking that older leaders were once young, and if they did not learn wisdom earlier, they often do not gain it later. I think most of our problems with leadership is that we often assume that they can obtain wisdom after they obtain authority. Sometimes that happens. But it is better if they learn Godly wisdom first.
Classis has some potential for partnerships, cooperation. The less it tries to impose its "authority", and the more it works in unity and partnerships and cooperation to achieve its objectives such as church planting, the more effective it will be.
One example, it should not encourage a church to be called an "emerging church for ten years. After four years, it is a church, or it is not there. (generally). IMHO
Thanks for this article. I think we often underestimate the capacity of children to learn. They actually learn much faster than adults, with the right motivation and expectations. So learning is very important, because doing without learning, often leads to "doing" for its own sake, rather than for the Lord's sake. Any robot can do things without learning. It is easily possible for grade five students to memorize the 66 books of the bible, for example. Even grade one students have the capacity to memorize an entire chapter of the gospel, for example, Luke 2, with enough coaching and perseverance. Learning how to apply the scriptures to life is one of the most valuable things any child can "do", so learning and doing are inseparable. In our church education programs, we should probably remember that our "doing" needs to reinforce and not replace our "learning".
In the Biblical perspective, which I found as a whole to be a good report, all 60 pages, I only have these few comments to make:
Screen 4. Matthew 25 talks about the least of these brothers of mine…which would seem to indicate the body of Christ.
Screen 9-F. It seems that it would be better and more correct to say that we serve God, by taking care of the land. We are not servants to the land as much as the land serves us, but we are stewards of the land, for God, since the land belongs to God ultimately. I would also seem that we do not serve the land itself, but rather its purpose, the purpose that God has for it. The land itself does not have the capacity to care about the result. A desert does not feel neglected or harmed if it is converted to fertile field, and a fertile field does not complain feel injured if it its topsoil is moved to another location. A rock has as much value as a tree, except within the purposes of God. Man serves creation best when he dies, because then he improves the soil and provides himself as food for the microbes. But creation itself does not have the ability to be pleased whether man lives or dies. The pleasure of creation is found in the eyes of man, and the purpose of God.
Screen 14-1. If Eclessiastes 5:9 really says this, then it has been badly translated in KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT. All of these say that the king is served from the field. I would go with their translation – it makes sense with all the rest of scripture.
Screen 27 last paragraph. Although in almost every case, there is mention of their faith….
35- Acts 4:34. typo? For there was not one among them that lacked?
Screen 44 II Corinthians 9:12 For the administration of this service. Or for the doing of this work/service….?
Screen 53: These works of service can include the ministry/service of the word as well as other types of service, or along with.
Article 12c: I would have no problem if this article was simply reduced to: “A minister of the Word may also serve the church in other work which relates directly to the calling of a minister.” I believe the rest is really unnecessary.
Article 25: Since the offices of elder and deacon are determined to be unique, I would recommend that they get separate articles which may highlight that uniqueness. This may have implications for terms of office, as well as for the roles and responsibilities and authority that these offices carry, since they are different from each other (which is why they have distinctly different titles/names).
Article 25b: I would suggest “…shall participate in and promote worship, evangelism, instruction in the faith, and learning, and shall defend the faith…” Should add in worship, instruction, and learning. These are sometimes understood, and other times are not done enough. These are major roles of elders.
Artcile 35: Revise this to the consistory may give an account of its work to the council. Keep in mind that in a way, consistory and council should also give an account of its work to the congregation. The problem is what does that really mean? A brief summary overview? A detailed report? Making this a demand or a command will not help communications if there is no desire to communicate. Each church in essence must make its own decision on this.
Article 40a: Should be revised to: Each classis shall determine whether its churches can delegate two or three officebearers to the sessions of that classis. No more than one can be an ordained pastor.
Article 40b: Should be revised to: Each classis shall meet two or three times per year, as the classis determines.
Article 42b: Do not agree with proposed revision “shall include a minister and one other officebearer”. It is not the role or task or duty of service for deacons to supervise the administration and duties of councils and churches in general in the fashion described in this article. Especially other churches. They could be called on for assistance when specific diaconal needs are not being met, or when diaconal leadership and assistance is requested. Or the diaconal conference can function in that regard.
Article 45: One minister, one elder, and one deacon delegated from each classis to synod sounds good.
Posted in: Preventive Maintenance against Sermon Stealing
If you are going to use someone else's sermon wholesale, you might want to consider having an elder read it instead. The main problem with using or reading someone else's sermon is that people can dream up all kinds of reasons why the sermon probably doesn't apply to them. In addition, there is a good likelihood that it won't apply to their situation in a pertinent sense, either because it didn't come from the local situation needs, or because the method of delivery creates a distance. In some cases however, a reading sermon may be preferable to a locally written sermon, hopefully not too often.
Posted in: Do Pastors Need Professional Supervision?
I must say that the terminology is troublesome. It is troublesome to think that someone or something is going to mandate a congregation to contract with a professional supervisor for a pastor who they have already contracted with to be a spiritual teacher and leader. While they may decide from time to time to contract with someone to provide special services, such as professional advice for pastors and elders, it is troublesome to think that someone like synod or classis would mandate them to do so. Ultimately, synod and classis have no authority nor mandate to do so. It would be lording it over the churches.
While a new preacher or pastor should probably look for a mentor, someone to provide advice, to answer practical questions, thinking about a mentor as a supervisor is not a good thing, particularly when words like "having the power to convene the elders and pastors should an impasse arise..." are used. These words are landmines in themselves.
So, a good mentor, yes. A professional supervisor, not. Without open minds to accept and seek advice, supervisory power of a non-church member is not the answer. It would create more problems than it would solve, and would lead to exactly the type of hierarchy that we are trying to avoid.
Posted in: Support Raising: Begging or Biblical
I also think, in agreement with Bev, that it is a fantastic illustration of where our support really comes from. None of our appeals will have much impact if God does not bless the giving, either by the giving itself, or by the results of the giving in the life of the receiver. If we forget that, then all of this is nothing more than money passing from one hand to another.
Posted in: Do Pastors Need Professional Supervision?
In my experience with professional organizations, mentors are sometimes appointed for a time for new initiates into the professional organization, although this is not a hard and fast rule. But this only relates to the general conditions of qualifying as a member of the professional organization, not to the supervision of daily work.
Supervisors of daily work and workers, almost always have the responsibility of providing and overseeing and changing workloads, of developing and managing evaluations and appraisals, as well as recommending salary changes or promotions or new job descriptions. Ultimately supervisors have the ability to hire and fire, although they may require the approval of their own supervisor for these actions. So I would be very, very careful about using that type of terminology. It is the wrong term in this case.
My warning is that we will lose the spiritual leadership of these positions and callings if we make too many analogies to careers and professional organizations. It is quite different and important to realize that scripture itself is your best mentor and supervisor, and prayer and bible reading your best discussion with your supervisor. Losing the scriptural focus in any group mentoring or personal leadership mentoring will run the risk of gaining smooth operations with a loss of spiritual impact.
Posted in: Church: Institute, Organism, or Something Else?
I wonder if we should be thinking about this a bit differently. Wouldn't an organism (people of God) be what builds the instititute? Of course, there is another meaning to institute, such as in "God's institutes his Church". God builds His church, both the organism and the organization. But the church as an institute seems to be the formal trappings, the ceremony, the order, the procedure and facilities, the organization. The church as organism (as simply the people of God) must exist first in order to impliment all of this, to start it or initiate it, to write confessions and songs, to organize services, to provide facilities or locations, before it can become an organization or an institute.
Then there is this: that an institute or organization is more or less dead without the organism. The organism is what lives.
I listened last night to a speaker (on video), a psychologist, a christian who talked about christians having "authority", referring to power in general, but specifically to casting out demons, to shutting up the demons and sending them away. I thought it was a good speech, very biblical, but I have no idea what institute he belonged to, nor what denomination, or even what city. To me he was part of the organism more than part of the institute, if that makes sense. He was more concerned about Christ and about the battle between heaven and hell, between God and Satan, than about what organization anyone belonged to.
The institute or organization as we look at it is mostly earthly, while the organism is the body of Christ, and is eternal.
Posted in: Church: Institute, Organism, or Something Else?
Good comment and good article by Van Reken, Steve.
Posted in: Youth Youth Leaders
Ray, youth can certainly be leaders, with or without our help. The question is, how will they be good leaders rather than bad leaders? While giving them authority is necessary, giving them wisdom is even more important. Helping them to understand how to make decisions that are pleasing to God, rather than decisions and plans that are just pleasing to people, is a good place to start. Without that focus, it won't matter whether they are leaders or not. Without that focus, they will simply lead others down the path to perdition, instead of to the glory of God.
Posted in: Youth Youth Leaders
Jack, I actually agree with you. I was not comparing youth to older leaders so much as emphasizing that authority without wisdom will lead to problems. And yes, I agree that older leaders are also often "people pleasers" rather than "Christ followers". I am thinking that older leaders were once young, and if they did not learn wisdom earlier, they often do not gain it later. I think most of our problems with leadership is that we often assume that they can obtain wisdom after they obtain authority. Sometimes that happens. But it is better if they learn Godly wisdom first.
Posted in: Who is Paul Vander Klay and What's He Hoping to Do?
Classis has some potential for partnerships, cooperation. The less it tries to impose its "authority", and the more it works in unity and partnerships and cooperation to achieve its objectives such as church planting, the more effective it will be.
One example, it should not encourage a church to be called an "emerging church for ten years. After four years, it is a church, or it is not there. (generally). IMHO
Posted in: What Do We Want Them To Learn?
Thanks for this article. I think we often underestimate the capacity of children to learn. They actually learn much faster than adults, with the right motivation and expectations. So learning is very important, because doing without learning, often leads to "doing" for its own sake, rather than for the Lord's sake. Any robot can do things without learning. It is easily possible for grade five students to memorize the 66 books of the bible, for example. Even grade one students have the capacity to memorize an entire chapter of the gospel, for example, Luke 2, with enough coaching and perseverance. Learning how to apply the scriptures to life is one of the most valuable things any child can "do", so learning and doing are inseparable. In our church education programs, we should probably remember that our "doing" needs to reinforce and not replace our "learning".
Posted in: The Diakonia Remixed Preliminary Report
In the Biblical perspective, which I found as a whole to be a good report, all 60 pages, I only have these few comments to make:
Screen 4. Matthew 25 talks about the least of these brothers of mine…which would seem to indicate the body of Christ.
Screen 9-F. It seems that it would be better and more correct to say that we serve God, by taking care of the land. We are not servants to the land as much as the land serves us, but we are stewards of the land, for God, since the land belongs to God ultimately. I would also seem that we do not serve the land itself, but rather its purpose, the purpose that God has for it. The land itself does not have the capacity to care about the result. A desert does not feel neglected or harmed if it is converted to fertile field, and a fertile field does not complain feel injured if it its topsoil is moved to another location. A rock has as much value as a tree, except within the purposes of God. Man serves creation best when he dies, because then he improves the soil and provides himself as food for the microbes. But creation itself does not have the ability to be pleased whether man lives or dies. The pleasure of creation is found in the eyes of man, and the purpose of God.
Screen 14-1. If Eclessiastes 5:9 really says this, then it has been badly translated in KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT. All of these say that the king is served from the field. I would go with their translation – it makes sense with all the rest of scripture.
Screen 27 last paragraph. Although in almost every case, there is mention of their faith….
35- Acts 4:34. typo? For there was not one among them that lacked?
Screen 44 II Corinthians 9:12 For the administration of this service. Or for the doing of this work/service….?
Screen 53: These works of service can include the ministry/service of the word as well as other types of service, or along with.
Posted in: The Diakonia Remixed Preliminary Report
My comments on the proposed church order changes:
Article 12c: I would have no problem if this article was simply reduced to: “A minister of the Word may also serve the church in other work which relates directly to the calling of a minister.” I believe the rest is really unnecessary.
Article 25: Since the offices of elder and deacon are determined to be unique, I would recommend that they get separate articles which may highlight that uniqueness. This may have implications for terms of office, as well as for the roles and responsibilities and authority that these offices carry, since they are different from each other (which is why they have distinctly different titles/names).
Article 25b: I would suggest “…shall participate in and promote worship, evangelism, instruction in the faith, and learning, and shall defend the faith…” Should add in worship, instruction, and learning. These are sometimes understood, and other times are not done enough. These are major roles of elders.
Artcile 35: Revise this to the consistory may give an account of its work to the council. Keep in mind that in a way, consistory and council should also give an account of its work to the congregation. The problem is what does that really mean? A brief summary overview? A detailed report? Making this a demand or a command will not help communications if there is no desire to communicate. Each church in essence must make its own decision on this.
Article 40a: Should be revised to: Each classis shall determine whether its churches can delegate two or three officebearers to the sessions of that classis. No more than one can be an ordained pastor.
Article 40b: Should be revised to: Each classis shall meet two or three times per year, as the classis determines.
Article 42b: Do not agree with proposed revision “shall include a minister and one other officebearer”. It is not the role or task or duty of service for deacons to supervise the administration and duties of councils and churches in general in the fashion described in this article. Especially other churches. They could be called on for assistance when specific diaconal needs are not being met, or when diaconal leadership and assistance is requested. Or the diaconal conference can function in that regard.
Article 45: One minister, one elder, and one deacon delegated from each classis to synod sounds good.