God may not grade on a curve but most sane humans do. I think most CRC congregations are well on the top half of the curve and that First Everett CRC is spending wisely. If I did not believe this I would stay home.
I don't buy "woe is me, miserable sinner" theology. I think the Orthodox, Catholic, and Episcopal denominations are wise to classify sins as felinies and misdemeanors.
We are all sinners who are (supposed to be) fighting against our sin nature. No one will perfect in this life. If God has predestined an occasional slip it must be for our instruction.
Interesting and honest analysis. I thought about studying law but I can't tell lies with a straight face so I put in 30 years as a police officer. I have been accused of many things but never of lying under oath or in writing.
I was thinking at a lower philosophical level. We have always lived below our income level and tithed ( Commercial for God - Tithing doesn't "cost" anyhing because God makes it work out, somehow). But once in a while it is nice to blow 50 bucks on a nice dinner and I don't feel this is cheating God or wasting HIS assets. Further, now that the kids have moved out and the dog died it is almost cheaper to go out for lunch than to eat three days of left-overs at home.
Last year we moved 30 miles from First Everett (WA) CRC. I continue to attend Everett CRC because I like the old fashioned worship service (no electronic music, no rock band, no "worship team" and no drum set), the Dutch people, and Pastor Jim Wiersum.
Pastor Jim is a peacemake in council meetings, doesn't dumb down his sermons, enjoys talking about Christianity and the Church, and understands "off the record."
The Sunday morning freeway traffic is still tolerable and I intend to continue meeting at Everett CRC as long as I can safely drive the trip. I'm to old to change churches and when I quit Everett I will probably quit attending church. I spent most of my life as a Baptist and "got Reformed" before I knew the CRC existed. When we moved to Everett, Everett CRC was 4 blocks down the street. I have congregation loyalty, not denominational loyalty.
These definitions are based on statistical analysis (e.g. most people with this problem exhibit this symptom). Most people are very poor at risk analysis. Many popular science writers have forgotton the basics of statistical analysis and probability.
1. Statistics only apply to specific groups and never to individuals.
2. Statistics only apply to historical data. A datum is not data.
3. Probability only applies to future events and never to past events.
4. What happened, happened. Stuff happens. That's all, folks.
This applies to Biblical prophecy as well as medical and physical data. <G>
Please define "person of colour." Will a female "person of colour" count for two slots? I suppose the proposal will pass because most people don't the jobs. This will take the pressure off popular white male deligates.<G>
The term Caucasian race (also Caucasoid, Europid, or Europoid[1]) has been used to denote the general physical type of some or all of the populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia.[2] Historically, the term has been used to describe the entire population of these regions, without regard necessarily to skin tone.
Theological influence is NOT dependant upon numerical size. For example, the Plymouth Brethern set the stage for the entire "dispensational" sub set of Christianity. Is the primary purpose of the CRC to promote Calvin's teachings or numerical growth? Might these be exclusive goals?
>I too love the Reformed tradition and don't want to throw it out. We do not need to do that to become more welcoming of other ethnicities.
Disagree. If other ethnicities wish to accept the CRC as they find it, fine. If other ethnicies such as myself want to revise the CRC to fit our traditions, then not fine. Let me and others find a denomination better suited to our traditions. There are hundreds of denominations extent.
Recall the (excuse change of type size I didn't do anything) historical (1970's) discussion of the "Ugly American" who wants to impose "Americanness" upon other ethnicities. Why should Dutch CRC traditions be imposed upon by Americans, Koreans, or anyone? The message coming out of The Banner and Grand Rapids is that "all animals are equal but Dutch animals are less equal than others." I interpret the trend to goofy generic named congregations which reject admitting to be a CRC congregation as attmpting to follow the money trail instead of Calvin. That's my personal opinion.
Born in Brooklyn, NY. Not politically correct. Sorry about sloppy writing.
I "got reformed" in 1988 when the Rapture did not occur and I read the Institutes cover to cover twice. The only Presbyterians with whom I was familiar were OPC types and I disagreed with their politics and with Reconstructionism. I never head of the CRC until we moved five blocks south of First Everett (WA) CRC. We liked the traditional church service and the Dutch customs. The people were very friendly. We knew we would feel as outsiders because the congregation was basically three or four extended families who grew up together. That was OK. We wanted to join them. We did not want to change them.
I soon learned that the Classis and the Synod - the CRC leadership - was trying as hard as possible to hide the Dutch origin and appear to be a generic, community church. Any Dutch emphasis was discouraged. Half the new congregations had stealth names that intentionally ignored any reference to "Christian" or the CRC. The old hymns in the gray psalter were altered to be more PC. At the same time the old hymns were altered to remove any reference to God loving the world. Now, in song, God only loves "us," the insider Reformed people. Very strange.
Most people would not notice. I know many of the old hymns by heart and spent 30 years writing propaganga in one form or another. I love music and hate the inane ditties and questionable lyrics of the new music published sans vocal music, only tune line.
At least most new style non-CRC congregations reflect the traditional American Civil Christian Religion. The (new) CRC seems to be catering alien cultures and hippies, (whatever the semi-civilized call themselves these days).
There are dozens of Protestant denominations. One very old, very important, very small denomination which I have mentioned being the Plymouth Bretheren, started by J. N. Darby in the middle 1800's. Most people have not heard of them. They deny being a denomination. BUT 80% of the material in any "Christian" book store reflects PB theology. They invented dispensationalism and the rapture. CRC members quote PB theology and don't realize it.
The historically successful denominations attract a particular social set of the general population and/or emphasize a particular historical theological stance. The CRC historical position was Dutch Reformed culture, Calvanist, (not Presbyterian) theology and politics and education. The quickest way to kill the CRC is to become "generic" christianity with congregations that will please all cultures. This is against the human nature that God gave us. We can't "out baptist" the Baptists by allowing children to take communion or "out holiness" the holiness churches by introducing "praise teams" and de-civilizing music."
I worked in Seattle's Chinatown for 25 years and prefer Chinese culture (and food <G>). I am pleased that people from any culture would want to join the CRC and worship in a traditional Dutch way. I am not pleased that the leadership in MY CRC wants to dump CRC culture in favor of a generic almost anything goes civil religion. I suspect the reason for the change is more budget based than theology based.
As a US Supreme Court justice noted, "I can't define ponography but I know it when I see it." In the same undefined way, I preferred working in Chinatown than in the "white" or "black" parts of Seattle. In the same undefined way, I prefer meeting with the people at Everett CRC over the people at other churches I have visited in the area. It isn't all because of theology.
Posted in: Guard Against All Kinds of Greed - a Reflection on Luke 12
God may not grade on a curve but most sane humans do. I think most CRC congregations are well on the top half of the curve and that First Everett CRC is spending wisely. If I did not believe this I would stay home.
I don't buy "woe is me, miserable sinner" theology. I think the Orthodox, Catholic, and Episcopal denominations are wise to classify sins as felinies and misdemeanors.
We are all sinners who are (supposed to be) fighting against our sin nature. No one will perfect in this life. If God has predestined an occasional slip it must be for our instruction.
Posted in: Guard Against All Kinds of Greed - a Reflection on Luke 12
Interesting and honest analysis. I thought about studying law but I can't tell lies with a straight face so I put in 30 years as a police officer. I have been accused of many things but never of lying under oath or in writing.
I was thinking at a lower philosophical level. We have always lived below our income level and tithed ( Commercial for God - Tithing doesn't "cost" anyhing because God makes it work out, somehow). But once in a while it is nice to blow 50 bucks on a nice dinner and I don't feel this is cheating God or wasting HIS assets. Further, now that the kids have moved out and the dog died it is almost cheaper to go out for lunch than to eat three days of left-overs at home.
Posted in: Why Do You Attend a CRC Church?
Last year we moved 30 miles from First Everett (WA) CRC. I continue to attend Everett CRC because I like the old fashioned worship service (no electronic music, no rock band, no "worship team" and no drum set), the Dutch people, and Pastor Jim Wiersum.
Pastor Jim is a peacemake in council meetings, doesn't dumb down his sermons, enjoys talking about Christianity and the Church, and understands "off the record."
The Sunday morning freeway traffic is still tolerable and I intend to continue meeting at Everett CRC as long as I can safely drive the trip. I'm to old to change churches and when I quit Everett I will probably quit attending church. I spent most of my life as a Baptist and "got Reformed" before I knew the CRC existed. When we moved to Everett, Everett CRC was 4 blocks down the street. I have congregation loyalty, not denominational loyalty.
Bill Wald
Posted in: Focus on People Not Labels
These definitions are based on statistical analysis (e.g. most people with this problem exhibit this symptom). Most people are very poor at risk analysis. Many popular science writers have forgotton the basics of statistical analysis and probability.
1. Statistics only apply to specific groups and never to individuals.
2. Statistics only apply to historical data. A datum is not data.
3. Probability only applies to future events and never to past events.
4. What happened, happened. Stuff happens. That's all, folks.
This applies to Biblical prophecy as well as medical and physical data. <G>
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
Please define "person of colour." Will a female "person of colour" count for two slots? I suppose the proposal will pass because most people don't the jobs. This will take the pressure off popular white male deligates.<G>
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race
The term Caucasian race (also Caucasoid, Europid, or Europoid[1]) has been used to denote the general physical type of some or all of the populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia and South Asia.[2] Historically, the term has been used to describe the entire population of these regions, without regard necessarily to skin tone.
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
BUT doesn't this concept attempt to reverse God's will as expressed in the "Tower" incident?" Isn't it God's will that we be diverse and separated?
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
Theological influence is NOT dependant upon numerical size. For example, the Plymouth Brethern set the stage for the entire "dispensational" sub set of Christianity. Is the primary purpose of the CRC to promote Calvin's teachings or numerical growth? Might these be exclusive goals?
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
>I too love the Reformed tradition and don't want to throw it out. We do not need to do that to become more welcoming of other ethnicities.
Disagree. If other ethnicities wish to accept the CRC as they find it, fine. If other ethnicies such as myself want to revise the CRC to fit our traditions, then not fine. Let me and others find a denomination better suited to our traditions. There are hundreds of denominations extent.
Recall the (excuse change of type size I didn't do anything) historical (1970's) discussion of the "Ugly American" who wants to impose "Americanness" upon other ethnicities. Why should Dutch CRC traditions be imposed upon by Americans, Koreans, or anyone? The message coming out of The Banner and Grand Rapids is that "all animals are equal but Dutch animals are less equal than others." I interpret the trend to goofy generic named congregations which reject admitting to be a CRC congregation as attmpting to follow the money trail instead of Calvin. That's my personal opinion.
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
Born in Brooklyn, NY. Not politically correct. Sorry about sloppy writing.
I "got reformed" in 1988 when the Rapture did not occur and I read the Institutes cover to cover twice. The only Presbyterians with whom I was familiar were OPC types and I disagreed with their politics and with Reconstructionism. I never head of the CRC until we moved five blocks south of First Everett (WA) CRC. We liked the traditional church service and the Dutch customs. The people were very friendly. We knew we would feel as outsiders because the congregation was basically three or four extended families who grew up together. That was OK. We wanted to join them. We did not want to change them.
I soon learned that the Classis and the Synod - the CRC leadership - was trying as hard as possible to hide the Dutch origin and appear to be a generic, community church. Any Dutch emphasis was discouraged. Half the new congregations had stealth names that intentionally ignored any reference to "Christian" or the CRC. The old hymns in the gray psalter were altered to be more PC. At the same time the old hymns were altered to remove any reference to God loving the world. Now, in song, God only loves "us," the insider Reformed people. Very strange.
Most people would not notice. I know many of the old hymns by heart and spent 30 years writing propaganga in one form or another. I love music and hate the inane ditties and questionable lyrics of the new music published sans vocal music, only tune line.
At least most new style non-CRC congregations reflect the traditional American Civil Christian Religion. The (new) CRC seems to be catering alien cultures and hippies, (whatever the semi-civilized call themselves these days).
There are dozens of Protestant denominations. One very old, very important, very small denomination which I have mentioned being the Plymouth Bretheren, started by J. N. Darby in the middle 1800's. Most people have not heard of them. They deny being a denomination. BUT 80% of the material in any "Christian" book store reflects PB theology. They invented dispensationalism and the rapture. CRC members quote PB theology and don't realize it.
The historically successful denominations attract a particular social set of the general population and/or emphasize a particular historical theological stance. The CRC historical position was Dutch Reformed culture, Calvanist, (not Presbyterian) theology and politics and education. The quickest way to kill the CRC is to become "generic" christianity with congregations that will please all cultures. This is against the human nature that God gave us. We can't "out baptist" the Baptists by allowing children to take communion or "out holiness" the holiness churches by introducing "praise teams" and de-civilizing music."
I worked in Seattle's Chinatown for 25 years and prefer Chinese culture (and food <G>). I am pleased that people from any culture would want to join the CRC and worship in a traditional Dutch way. I am not pleased that the leadership in MY CRC wants to dump CRC culture in favor of a generic almost anything goes civil religion. I suspect the reason for the change is more budget based than theology based.
bill wald
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
As a US Supreme Court justice noted, "I can't define ponography but I know it when I see it." In the same undefined way, I preferred working in Chinatown than in the "white" or "black" parts of Seattle. In the same undefined way, I prefer meeting with the people at Everett CRC over the people at other churches I have visited in the area. It isn't all because of theology.
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
Such things are self-identified in the US. You could call yourself a cousin of the old Russian royal family if you wished. <G>