I grew up in the CRC, and am still here, along with my family. I'm married to Daryl, who has a construction business. I had a CPA license for 10 or so years, then I added EX to the front, and MOM to the back, so now I'm an EX CPA, MOM =). I am MOM to Duncan, Ian and Samantha. Our family also owns a raspberry farm, and in the summers we get to work out there together.
Thanks Paul for taking on this corner of the network for a while... I too believe, God will use this tool to connect those with an "interest" in these concerns... Last year, I mentioned some of my denominational concerns with a local CRC leader, and the response was essentially no one cares, and you won't make any difference at the denominational level. Well, I didn't receive that, and was a "little" put out, and frustrated, so I prayed, and educated myself more on what's going on at the higher levels of the CRC... I had kind of given up for a while, then joined the network when they sent out the email in late Feb, then I was struggling with some issue again, and briefly thought with a defeatist attitude, I don't care if I'm in disagreement...and the Holy Spirit really impressed on me that it is very important to be in one accord... If I'm a part of this denomination, then I need to be praying and working toward being in agreement, however that might look...
a couple of concepts that we have used in our area (not through classis though) are seek God for Lynden, based on seek God for the city... we gather as "the church of Lynden", not as one particular church or denomination...
Houston prays is another powerful ministry that connects churches in a regional area... I have met the director for this ministry, and see amazing things going on in the Houston area... here's one for example:
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=FB1B9CNU a powerful celebration of diversity, as 2000 believers come together in Houston to celebrate the Risen LORD, with dance... this is a beautiful picture of young and old, and various ethnicities all celebrating Christ. I cry just about every time I watch it...
the 3rd example is the Light of the World Prayer center that is a county wide prayer center. again, a beautiful blend of believers from various streams, reformed, pentecostal, baptist, catholic, etc. praying together. This is what we have found to be the most powerful way that unity in spirit is achieved, is when we pray together. A couple of weeks ago, we had reformed, mennonite and baptist pastors and area leaders praying together for 3 days. I believe this is very significant for reconciliation, because of our role in the split with the anabaptists many years ago... some might say ancient history, but as I've become more involved in digging into the roots of some issues, they can go back a long way.
One of the rays of hope for me is that since we (the crc) reversed our position on cessationism, as we did in 1973, a significant change of doctrine, then it's possible that these other issues I struggle with can be worked out as well.
Like you said, confessing that there is something unhealthy is a good start... Now LORD, purge, purify and cleanse us of what is not from You... Raise up Spirit led leaders that are men and women of prayer... those who know that prayer is life or death for our denomination...In Your precious Son's Name...JESUS!
As i was walking the track for relay for life in the wee am hours, another possibility entered my mind, for helping bring unity... Dr. Alvin Vander Griend of the CRC and Harvest Prayer ministries (author of Love to Pray, Joy of Prayer, Praying the Father's Heart), has a wonderful teaching on a culture of prayer. I am on the Light of the World prayer board with him, and so can't believe I forgot about it. He has expressed interest in going to regional areas and inviting particularly the CRC and RC from that area for a combined gathering focusing on prayer, helping to bring increased unity through prayer. Hope that helps.
thanks Paul. your post brought tears to my eyes... it was beautiful insight, and I will pray that it will not be soon forgotten, but that it's the little mustard seed, that I will believe will grow into a huge fruitful tree structure.
btw, what are the current requirements to be eligible as a rep for classis, to be on the current council? a brief synopsis would be great, or if you can direct me to whatever governing documents states them.
may the LORD bless you as a leader in implementing the necessary structural changes in our denomination, for His Kingdom...
I will be honest, my husband and I have not given much to ministry shares, and what you mention is one reason:
When individuals suspect that these structures are resistant to influence, cynicism rises and motivation to serve wanes. This threat is like a hardening of the arteries for our church and should be resisted ...
I struggle with paying substantial salaries to our leaders... no matter how bright and gifted they might be, and therefore am not a cheerful giver when it goes to ministry shares...
on Fri. of last week, one of my clients paid me, and I felt the Spirit nudge "this time Bev, tithe to the ministry shares."
This morning, as I was thinking about the "long" prayer question some more, I was reminded of a very long prayer, one that lasted over 100 years. The Moravians in 1727 started praying 24/7 in one hour shifts known as the Hourly Intercession, and this continued for over 100 years... through it they pioneered lay missionaries, sending the first lay missionaries out in 1732 or so... in 1780's William Carey, the father of modern missions, read an article about what the Moravians were doing and so he went to his baptist brethren, and asked "why can't we do what the Moravians have done"... it wasn't well received at first, and it was several more years before his mission work began with the support of his denomination...
may the fire on the altar never go out... Lev. 6:13
Thanks Paul... in agreement on prayer being our chief work... so then that is where we should be spending significant time and energy, but I'm not finding that to be the case yet.
I have found people are very sensitive about their prayer life - they know they should be praying, and yet often are not and so feel guilty when it's mentioned which unfortunately seems to make them more resistant - I can sense almost immediately when I bring up prayer with someone, whether they "get it" or not. They will say things like, "that's your gift, not mine." or "that's interesting" then change the subject or some other "avoidance" technique or intellectual argument. If they "get it", we usually end up talking and praying together for an extended time. Do I push it? All I have to do is mention it and usually within a few seconds, their response will clue me in on where they're at with their prayer life. I don't do this to judge anyone - I love to talk about Jesus, and prayer will come up because it's a significant part of my life as part of my relationship with Him, and what I'm "busy" with when I'm asked if I'm busy. Through these conversations, I often gain insight to pray on their behalf. Does it make me better than them? No, I know what my prayer life was like before God graciously transformed it several years ago... it was a duty of 0-15 minutes a day, listing out my requests, maybe a little confession, praise, thanksgiving, but mostly requests... and a see You later God, maybe tomorrow, maybe not, depends if I remember and how busy/tired I am. My prayer life was pretty weak for a long time and He transformed it over several years, with several key experiences that changed prayer from duty to delight. It has made me a better believer in comparison to where I was.
It's my heart cry that prayer will be a delight instead of a duty for every believer, that we all learn to hear the Shepherd's voice clearly... I don't know how many times I get "confessions" of prayerlessness with many reasons... and it's really obvious when it comes to corporate prayer. I would be interested in doing a survey of how many crc churches have a regular night of prayer every week...
I keep asking God, "how long do I have to pray for prayer?" Pastors have no problem preaching a sermon on tithing/giving when the church's bank account balance is getting low... there's an objective tangible sign of a giving issue and so it's addressed (and the fact that their salary is involved just might have something to do with it =)... the sign of lack of prayer is not so obvious... but one you mentioned, fruitlessness in ministry, which is more difficult to recognize and address, and people tend to get very defensive when their program fails and you suggest that maybe we should spend more time in prayer- as i already shared, we are sensitive about our prayer life and "don't you dare suggest in any way that I don't pray" type attitude.
I'm pretty sure I've never heard a sermon that our prayer bank account is getting low, and it's time to step it up with prayer time (I don't like the results of my speculation on the reason for that). I just sense really hard ground as we are praying for break through with prayer, particularly in the conservative Christian culture, but hope i'm wrong.
As one author/pastor, Daniel Henderson, humorously puts it, our traditional corporate prayers are more like an "organ" recital. mostly praying for peoples organs; heart, lungs, health issues, I'm sure as a pastor you know what i mean.
The following is from his book "fresh encounters; experiencing transformation through united worship based prayer"
Our pastors minister in a prayerless, success - oriented culture.
"Man of prayer" no longer ranks high on the typical list of desirable traits for the local church pastor. Usually, the driven, over-achieving, "can-do" person is most admired in our society - and our churches. Recently, I was in Utah teaching a prayer seminar at a state-wide church leadership conference. After my session, a man approached m explaining that he was the chairman of the pastoral search committee for a congregation in that area. He pulled out a list of more than 85 desirable attributes for their next pastor. the inventory had been compiled through a recent survey of the congregation. many of the qualities centered on communication skills, management ability, pleasant personality, and strong pastoral care interests. Nowhere on the list was there any mention of the priority of prayer as an essential characteristic for the new pastor. American society tends to value strong, natural leadership, dynamic programming (and I would add dynamic personalities), entertaining services, and impressive technology. The idea of a pastor locked away in extended prayer does not strike the average churchgoer as a mark of effective (and I would add efficient) leadership. Some church members think it wastes time if the pastor spends energy attending prayer meetings. Many pastors realize this and decide not to go against the grain. Fresh Encounters; p 57-58, Nav Press, 2008.
so yes, prayer should be a quiet, unseen thing, but I'm not sure if it's happening at any substantial level, and the stress signs from the possible lack thereof are starting to become apparent (one sign being the "unhealthy culture in leadership") . Something is amiss. Are we willing to admit that might be part of the problem? or at least look into the possibility that it's a concern, or are we going to resist? In Moses' welcome speech, he shared how the pastor at the church in Korea spent 3 hrs/day in prayer... I think we would see significant change if we even have an hour/day (average) by every pastor/leader in the denom (survey results: 85% of pastors pray less than 15 min/day) http://www.worldwideprayer.com/pastorsstatistics.html ;
survey results of 1050 presbyterian and reformed pastors: 26% describe their relationship with Jesus as healthy as in having regular devotions and felt they were adequately fed spiritually
Are you familiar with Count Zinzendorf and the Moravians? They are some of my prayer heroes. I would love to see a study of them added to teaching our confessions =)
and I will check into what it takes to be involved at the classis level... again, thx for sharing your thoughts and taking the time to read mine.
ps...thanks for the confirmation, through your daughter, of gifted musicians/worshippers in this area...I (and others) are praying into the opportunity to increase their worship participation in different ways so that there will be several locations in the county where worship is going on 24/7... Jesus, may Your Name be lifted up 24/7 in Whatcom County, and the United States and the whole world for that matter...
Let me be more specific then, Jesus exalting, Lifting up His Name type worship... Everything has the potential to be worship...but some directs our focus upward to Jesus more than others.. and of course what's "entertainment" for one is worship for the next...
That is encouraging... so I will encourage (and challenge) you back... I look forward to singing their next song in our church worship service =)!!
I recently suggested to the synod "contest" initiators, that maybe we could challenge our members to compose and write a worship song and the top ones would be published in the next song book, and also maybe be invited (with costs covered) to the next worship symposium to lead "their" song during worship.
I did not mean to sound critical, but only to encourage (and/or challenge) us all to keep moving to higher levels of worship, where Jesus is lifted up continually... "harp and bowl" worship (harp = music and bowl = prayers) based on Rev. 5:8. There are times the Holy Spirt "downloads" new songs as the worship team (not at our church, but at the local prayer center with diverse denominations) is singing... but these are usually in times of continual worship of 2 or more hours... when we have worshipped a straight 24/7 , we have had amazing testimonies of breakthrough...
I know God has a sense of humor and can use any song, Christian or secular to "speak" to someone's heart, so I do not want to limit Him by defining what's worship, because what is worship for one, isn't necessarily the case for the next depending on a multitude of reasons... One funny example of this in my life, was a few months ago, I was at a Hillsong United concert and before the concert they had misc. songs playing, and one was "All you need is love"... this struck me as funny (and the LORD emphasizing love to me), because our pastor had just emphasized the importance of love, with the point of without love, everything is a waste and fruitless...
So I am praying for the release of many new songs from your area, and our denomination... I see it as an untapped oil well, with rich "oil" that will flow forth via the Holy Spirit (I'm sure you know oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit)... You mention harnessing it correctly... with the Holy Spirit as your Guide and counselor, you can't go wrong... so keep listening to Him, and again, excited for what God is doing and going to do with this generation and looking forward to those new songs...
I too get a little skeptical/snarky when people use words like "surely", "clearly", and "thus", like it so obvious to anyone with a brain, and therefore a foregone conclusion, and you would have to be pretty dense to think anything other than what they have so "clearly" presented. +
=)
Aye Aye ban any from of the word "clear" for discussion...hahahaha...
I am so glad that God does not look at outward appearances but at the heart... let's try His way and ask for His eyes to see each other with and not use our human ways of "organizing" and defining each other... Let's ask the Holy Spirit to guide us in who should be selected for leadership positions as is done in Acts 13:1-3, and Acts 14:23... He WILL still do that if we would but pray, fast and listen....then obey...or is that just too mystical for us western trained intellectuals?
yes...I think in all the scriptural references, the leaders did a first round selection of possible "nominees", based on a number of criteria... then asked the Holy Spirit to further select, or in the case of Acts 6:3 by knowing/discerning who was filled with the Holy Spirit... so, now how do we tell who is filled with the Holy Spirit? often it seems it can be a popularity type contest or based on their business "success" or natural giftedness/abilities.... or some other indicator like ethnicity or intellect ("it will require our best minds and some solid study..." June 2011 Banner editorial; p10)... but we don't go into the Spirit filled question, or do we assume every believer is Spirit filled men and women of prayer? or do we specifically ask about their prayer life and their relationship with Jesus? I find many are quite defensive when asked specifically about their prayer life, if it's asked at all.
Our country (the US) has had the best and the brightest and look at the mess we have made... our denomination has had the best and the brightest, and here's another quote from the same editorial, p 10 again.... "The changes made to make our denomination more efficient have caused more problems than they have solved."
that is what happens when we are not Spirit led, and instead use our human understanding ( a business model) to run our denomination... we would have said all our leaders have been Spirit led, full of wisdom in the past, yet something's amiss...
My intent is not to be critical, my heart breaks for our denomination, I've been a part of it all my life...but we have some serious concerns where some things are not as it should be...
the best minds and spirit filled are not always synomynous... they can be, but we need the gift - discerning of the spirits, which is much more than just discernment...
Posted in: The Long Prayer
here's Keith's song with all the verses... very powerful... especially if you've never heard v2 and 3...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVgPQm06g2c&feature=related
Posted in: Classis: The Right Tool for Three Important Needs
Thanks Paul for taking on this corner of the network for a while... I too believe, God will use this tool to connect those with an "interest" in these concerns... Last year, I mentioned some of my denominational concerns with a local CRC leader, and the response was essentially no one cares, and you won't make any difference at the denominational level. Well, I didn't receive that, and was a "little" put out, and frustrated, so I prayed, and educated myself more on what's going on at the higher levels of the CRC... I had kind of given up for a while, then joined the network when they sent out the email in late Feb, then I was struggling with some issue again, and briefly thought with a defeatist attitude, I don't care if I'm in disagreement...and the Holy Spirit really impressed on me that it is very important to be in one accord... If I'm a part of this denomination, then I need to be praying and working toward being in agreement, however that might look...
a couple of concepts that we have used in our area (not through classis though) are seek God for Lynden, based on seek God for the city... we gather as "the church of Lynden", not as one particular church or denomination...
Houston prays is another powerful ministry that connects churches in a regional area... I have met the director for this ministry, and see amazing things going on in the Houston area... here's one for example:
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=FB1B9CNU a powerful celebration of diversity, as 2000 believers come together in Houston to celebrate the Risen LORD, with dance... this is a beautiful picture of young and old, and various ethnicities all celebrating Christ. I cry just about every time I watch it...
the 3rd example is the Light of the World Prayer center that is a county wide prayer center. again, a beautiful blend of believers from various streams, reformed, pentecostal, baptist, catholic, etc. praying together. This is what we have found to be the most powerful way that unity in spirit is achieved, is when we pray together. A couple of weeks ago, we had reformed, mennonite and baptist pastors and area leaders praying together for 3 days. I believe this is very significant for reconciliation, because of our role in the split with the anabaptists many years ago... some might say ancient history, but as I've become more involved in digging into the roots of some issues, they can go back a long way.
One of the rays of hope for me is that since we (the crc) reversed our position on cessationism, as we did in 1973, a significant change of doctrine, then it's possible that these other issues I struggle with can be worked out as well.
Like you said, confessing that there is something unhealthy is a good start... Now LORD, purge, purify and cleanse us of what is not from You... Raise up Spirit led leaders that are men and women of prayer... those who know that prayer is life or death for our denomination...In Your precious Son's Name...JESUS!
Posted in: Classis: The Right Tool for Three Important Needs
As i was walking the track for relay for life in the wee am hours, another possibility entered my mind, for helping bring unity... Dr. Alvin Vander Griend of the CRC and Harvest Prayer ministries (author of Love to Pray, Joy of Prayer, Praying the Father's Heart), has a wonderful teaching on a culture of prayer. I am on the Light of the World prayer board with him, and so can't believe I forgot about it. He has expressed interest in going to regional areas and inviting particularly the CRC and RC from that area for a combined gathering focusing on prayer, helping to bring increased unity through prayer. Hope that helps.
http://harvestprayer.com/
Posted in: Why Synod Needs Classis
thanks Paul. your post brought tears to my eyes... it was beautiful insight, and I will pray that it will not be soon forgotten, but that it's the little mustard seed, that I will believe will grow into a huge fruitful tree structure.
btw, what are the current requirements to be eligible as a rep for classis, to be on the current council? a brief synopsis would be great, or if you can direct me to whatever governing documents states them.
may the LORD bless you as a leader in implementing the necessary structural changes in our denomination, for His Kingdom...
I will be honest, my husband and I have not given much to ministry shares, and what you mention is one reason:
When individuals suspect that these structures are resistant to influence, cynicism rises and motivation to serve wanes. This threat is like a hardening of the arteries for our church and should be resisted ...
I struggle with paying substantial salaries to our leaders... no matter how bright and gifted they might be, and therefore am not a cheerful giver when it goes to ministry shares...
on Fri. of last week, one of my clients paid me, and I felt the Spirit nudge "this time Bev, tithe to the ministry shares."
Posted in: The Long Prayer
This morning, as I was thinking about the "long" prayer question some more, I was reminded of a very long prayer, one that lasted over 100 years. The Moravians in 1727 started praying 24/7 in one hour shifts known as the Hourly Intercession, and this continued for over 100 years... through it they pioneered lay missionaries, sending the first lay missionaries out in 1732 or so... in 1780's William Carey, the father of modern missions, read an article about what the Moravians were doing and so he went to his baptist brethren, and asked "why can't we do what the Moravians have done"... it wasn't well received at first, and it was several more years before his mission work began with the support of his denomination...
may the fire on the altar never go out... Lev. 6:13
Posted in: Classis: The Right Tool for Three Important Needs
Thanks Paul... in agreement on prayer being our chief work... so then that is where we should be spending significant time and energy, but I'm not finding that to be the case yet.
I have found people are very sensitive about their prayer life - they know they should be praying, and yet often are not and so feel guilty when it's mentioned which unfortunately seems to make them more resistant - I can sense almost immediately when I bring up prayer with someone, whether they "get it" or not. They will say things like, "that's your gift, not mine." or "that's interesting" then change the subject or some other "avoidance" technique or intellectual argument. If they "get it", we usually end up talking and praying together for an extended time. Do I push it? All I have to do is mention it and usually within a few seconds, their response will clue me in on where they're at with their prayer life. I don't do this to judge anyone - I love to talk about Jesus, and prayer will come up because it's a significant part of my life as part of my relationship with Him, and what I'm "busy" with when I'm asked if I'm busy. Through these conversations, I often gain insight to pray on their behalf. Does it make me better than them? No, I know what my prayer life was like before God graciously transformed it several years ago... it was a duty of 0-15 minutes a day, listing out my requests, maybe a little confession, praise, thanksgiving, but mostly requests... and a see You later God, maybe tomorrow, maybe not, depends if I remember and how busy/tired I am. My prayer life was pretty weak for a long time and He transformed it over several years, with several key experiences that changed prayer from duty to delight. It has made me a better believer in comparison to where I was.
It's my heart cry that prayer will be a delight instead of a duty for every believer, that we all learn to hear the Shepherd's voice clearly... I don't know how many times I get "confessions" of prayerlessness with many reasons... and it's really obvious when it comes to corporate prayer. I would be interested in doing a survey of how many crc churches have a regular night of prayer every week...
I keep asking God, "how long do I have to pray for prayer?" Pastors have no problem preaching a sermon on tithing/giving when the church's bank account balance is getting low... there's an objective tangible sign of a giving issue and so it's addressed (and the fact that their salary is involved just might have something to do with it =)... the sign of lack of prayer is not so obvious... but one you mentioned, fruitlessness in ministry, which is more difficult to recognize and address, and people tend to get very defensive when their program fails and you suggest that maybe we should spend more time in prayer- as i already shared, we are sensitive about our prayer life and "don't you dare suggest in any way that I don't pray" type attitude.
I'm pretty sure I've never heard a sermon that our prayer bank account is getting low, and it's time to step it up with prayer time (I don't like the results of my speculation on the reason for that). I just sense really hard ground as we are praying for break through with prayer, particularly in the conservative Christian culture, but hope i'm wrong.
As one author/pastor, Daniel Henderson, humorously puts it, our traditional corporate prayers are more like an "organ" recital. mostly praying for peoples organs; heart, lungs, health issues, I'm sure as a pastor you know what i mean.
The following is from his book "fresh encounters; experiencing transformation through united worship based prayer"
Our pastors minister in a prayerless, success - oriented culture.
"Man of prayer" no longer ranks high on the typical list of desirable traits for the local church pastor. Usually, the driven, over-achieving, "can-do" person is most admired in our society - and our churches. Recently, I was in Utah teaching a prayer seminar at a state-wide church leadership conference. After my session, a man approached m explaining that he was the chairman of the pastoral search committee for a congregation in that area. He pulled out a list of more than 85 desirable attributes for their next pastor. the inventory had been compiled through a recent survey of the congregation. many of the qualities centered on communication skills, management ability, pleasant personality, and strong pastoral care interests. Nowhere on the list was there any mention of the priority of prayer as an essential characteristic for the new pastor. American society tends to value strong, natural leadership, dynamic programming (and I would add dynamic personalities), entertaining services, and impressive technology. The idea of a pastor locked away in extended prayer does not strike the average churchgoer as a mark of effective (and I would add efficient) leadership. Some church members think it wastes time if the pastor spends energy attending prayer meetings. Many pastors realize this and decide not to go against the grain. Fresh Encounters; p 57-58, Nav Press, 2008.
so yes, prayer should be a quiet, unseen thing, but I'm not sure if it's happening at any substantial level, and the stress signs from the possible lack thereof are starting to become apparent (one sign being the "unhealthy culture in leadership") . Something is amiss. Are we willing to admit that might be part of the problem? or at least look into the possibility that it's a concern, or are we going to resist? In Moses' welcome speech, he shared how the pastor at the church in Korea spent 3 hrs/day in prayer... I think we would see significant change if we even have an hour/day (average) by every pastor/leader in the denom (survey results: 85% of pastors pray less than 15 min/day) http://www.worldwideprayer.com/pastorsstatistics.html ;
survey results of 1050 presbyterian and reformed pastors: 26% describe their relationship with Jesus as healthy as in having regular devotions and felt they were adequately fed spiritually
- .http://www.intothyword.org/apps/articles/default.asp?articleid=36562
Are you familiar with Count Zinzendorf and the Moravians? They are some of my prayer heroes. I would love to see a study of them added to teaching our confessions =)
and I will check into what it takes to be involved at the classis level... again, thx for sharing your thoughts and taking the time to read mine.
Posted in: Is it Important for Youth to Attend Church with Their Parents?
ps...thanks for the confirmation, through your daughter, of gifted musicians/worshippers in this area...I (and others) are praying into the opportunity to increase their worship participation in different ways so that there will be several locations in the county where worship is going on 24/7... Jesus, may Your Name be lifted up 24/7 in Whatcom County, and the United States and the whole world for that matter...
Posted in: What's In A Name? [VIDEO]
Let me be more specific then, Jesus exalting, Lifting up His Name type worship... Everything has the potential to be worship...but some directs our focus upward to Jesus more than others.. and of course what's "entertainment" for one is worship for the next...
Posted in: What's In A Name? [VIDEO]
That is encouraging... so I will encourage (and challenge) you back... I look forward to singing their next song in our church worship service =)!!
I recently suggested to the synod "contest" initiators, that maybe we could challenge our members to compose and write a worship song and the top ones would be published in the next song book, and also maybe be invited (with costs covered) to the next worship symposium to lead "their" song during worship.
I did not mean to sound critical, but only to encourage (and/or challenge) us all to keep moving to higher levels of worship, where Jesus is lifted up continually... "harp and bowl" worship (harp = music and bowl = prayers) based on Rev. 5:8. There are times the Holy Spirt "downloads" new songs as the worship team (not at our church, but at the local prayer center with diverse denominations) is singing... but these are usually in times of continual worship of 2 or more hours... when we have worshipped a straight 24/7 , we have had amazing testimonies of breakthrough...
I know God has a sense of humor and can use any song, Christian or secular to "speak" to someone's heart, so I do not want to limit Him by defining what's worship, because what is worship for one, isn't necessarily the case for the next depending on a multitude of reasons... One funny example of this in my life, was a few months ago, I was at a Hillsong United concert and before the concert they had misc. songs playing, and one was "All you need is love"... this struck me as funny (and the LORD emphasizing love to me), because our pastor had just emphasized the importance of love, with the point of without love, everything is a waste and fruitless...
So I am praying for the release of many new songs from your area, and our denomination... I see it as an untapped oil well, with rich "oil" that will flow forth via the Holy Spirit (I'm sure you know oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit)... You mention harnessing it correctly... with the Holy Spirit as your Guide and counselor, you can't go wrong... so keep listening to Him, and again, excited for what God is doing and going to do with this generation and looking forward to those new songs...
Posted in: Clearly Comic Relief - Maybe
I too get a little skeptical/snarky when people use words like "surely", "clearly", and "thus", like it so obvious to anyone with a brain, and therefore a foregone conclusion, and you would have to be pretty dense to think anything other than what they have so "clearly" presented. +
=)
Aye Aye ban any from of the word "clear" for discussion...hahahaha...
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
I am so glad that God does not look at outward appearances but at the heart... let's try His way and ask for His eyes to see each other with and not use our human ways of "organizing" and defining each other... Let's ask the Holy Spirit to guide us in who should be selected for leadership positions as is done in Acts 13:1-3, and Acts 14:23... He WILL still do that if we would but pray, fast and listen....then obey...or is that just too mystical for us western trained intellectuals?
Posted in: Intentionally Diverse and Unified
yes...I think in all the scriptural references, the leaders did a first round selection of possible "nominees", based on a number of criteria... then asked the Holy Spirit to further select, or in the case of Acts 6:3 by knowing/discerning who was filled with the Holy Spirit... so, now how do we tell who is filled with the Holy Spirit? often it seems it can be a popularity type contest or based on their business "success" or natural giftedness/abilities.... or some other indicator like ethnicity or intellect ("it will require our best minds and some solid study..." June 2011 Banner editorial; p10)... but we don't go into the Spirit filled question, or do we assume every believer is Spirit filled men and women of prayer? or do we specifically ask about their prayer life and their relationship with Jesus? I find many are quite defensive when asked specifically about their prayer life, if it's asked at all.
Our country (the US) has had the best and the brightest and look at the mess we have made... our denomination has had the best and the brightest, and here's another quote from the same editorial, p 10 again.... "The changes made to make our denomination more efficient have caused more problems than they have solved."
that is what happens when we are not Spirit led, and instead use our human understanding ( a business model) to run our denomination... we would have said all our leaders have been Spirit led, full of wisdom in the past, yet something's amiss...
My intent is not to be critical, my heart breaks for our denomination, I've been a part of it all my life...but we have some serious concerns where some things are not as it should be...
the best minds and spirit filled are not always synomynous... they can be, but we need the gift - discerning of the spirits, which is much more than just discernment...