I grew up in the CRC, and am still here, along with my family. I'm married to Daryl, who has a construction business. I had a CPA license for 10 or so years, then I added EX to the front, and MOM to the back, so now I'm an EX CPA, MOM =). I am MOM to Duncan, Ian and Samantha. Our family also owns a raspberry farm, and in the summers we get to work out there together.
FYI some notes on pagan practices mentioned in ancient documents to give an idea of some of the things the early church wrestled with:
DIDACHE (85 AD-200 AD): The Didache in English; CH 2: you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. CH 3: My child, be not superstitious, since it leads to idolatry. Be neither an enchanter, nor an astrologer... CH 5: idolatries, magic arts, witchcrafts... murderers of children (ie through abandonment and exposure)...
COUNCIL OF NICAEA: CHURCH FATHERS: First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) Canon 1, there is a history here of at least several hundred years on this disturbing pagan practice and I find it interesting that this is the issue the council lists as the first canon that indicates it is still part of the problem for the early church in 325 AD, because it was part of the problem in Paul's time as well, which I have not included anywhere in the series and probably won't other than here to say the practice was also part of the toxic mess in Ephesus connected to one of the goddesses and Nicaea was still dealing with it a few hundred years later.
I want to share a list of how authentein has been translated in various versions of the Bible compared to how lording it over and exercise authority are translated in Matt 20:25. Interestingly it mostly lines up with the lording it over, more than the exercise authority over...
here's a fairly extensive list from about 150AD to modern versions, NOTE: general "have authority" or "exercise authority" is primarily the last 125 years, Erasmus introduced authority but qualified it with usurp as illegitimate, taken unlawfully, by force, the Geneva (1587) and King James (1611) and a few others also used usurp after that with a few using just "authority" from 1526-1903...
VERSION / TYPE / YEAR / 1 Tim 2:12 authority? / Matt 20:25 lord over / Matt 20:25 exercise authority
GREEK / ORIGINAL / 50 AD-100 AD / AUTHENTEIN / KATAKYRIEUOUSIN / KATEXOUSIAZOUSIN
Old Latin / ANCIENT / 150-250 / dominari / dominantur / petestatem exercent
Syriac / ANCIENT / 170-200 / NO TRANSLATION for authentein
Coptic / ANCIENT / 170-300 / dominate / lord over / rule harshly, dominate
Syriac Peshitta/ ANCIENT/ 300-400 / be authoritative, domineering / lord over / exercise dominion
Ethiopic / ANCIENT / 300-500 / lord over/dominate / rule over/dominate harshly / oppressive power over
Vulgate -Jerome / Latin / 400 / dominari / dominantur eorum / potestatem exercent
Armenian / ANCIENT / 410-440 / dominate/lord over / dominate/lord over / exercise power, authority
Georgian / ANCIENT / 400-600 / dominate/lord over / dominate/lord over / exercise dominion
Arabic / 867 AD / dominating/mastery over / dominate/control harshly / command imperiously
Cyril & Methodius / Old Slavonic / 863-900 / lord over, dominate / lord it over / exercise authority over
Wycliffe / ENGLISH / 1380-1384 / lordship on husband / lordis of hem / usen power on hem
Erasmus / Greek/Latin / 1516 / usurp authority / Same as Greek/Latin / Same as Greek/Latin
Tyndale / Early / 1526 / have authority / dominacio over / exercise power
Coverdale / Early / 1535 / have authority / domynacion of people / exercise power among
Bishops / Early / 1568 / usurp authority / dominion over / exercise aucthoritie
Geneva / Early / 1587 / usurp authority / have domination over / exercise authoritie
Douay Rheims / Modern / 1609 / use authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
KJV / Classic / 1611 / usurp authority / exercise dominion over / exercise authority over
Webster / Classic / 1833 / usurp authority / exercise dominion over / exercise authority over
Youngs Literal / Literal / 1862 / rule a husband / exercise lordship over / exercise authority over
English Revised / Classic / 1885 / have dominion / lord it over / exercise authority over
ASV / Classic / 1901 / have dominion / lord it over / exercise authority over
Weymouth / Modern / 1903 / have authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
New American / Modern / 1970 / have authority / domineer over / exercise authority over
NKJV / Classic / 1982 / have authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NIV 1984 / Modern / 1984 / have authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NRSV / Modern / 1989 / have authority / lord it over / great ones tyrants over
NASB / Modern / 1995 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NET / Modern / 1995 / exercise authority / lord it over / use authority over
Cont English / Modern / 1995 / tell men what to do / order people around / full power & rule over
New Heart English / Public / 2010 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
ISV / Modern / 2011 / instigate conflict / lord it over / superiors acts as tyrants over
NIV 2011 / Modern / 2011 / assume authority / lord it over / exercise authority over / Literal SV
Literal / 2020 / rule a husband / exercise lordship over / exercise authority over
World English / Classic / 1901, 2016 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NASB / Modern / 1961, 1995, 2020 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
AMP / Modern / 1965, 2015 / exercise authority / absolute power / lord over / exercise authority over
Good News / Modern / 1966, 1976 / have authority / have power over / complete authority
NASB / Modern / 1971, 1977, 1995, 2020 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NLT / Modern / 1996, 2004, 2015 / have authority / lord it over / flaunt authority over
Holman / Modern / 1999-2009 / have authority / dominate them / exercise power over
ESV / Modern / 2001, 2016 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
Christian Std / Modern / 2009, 2017 / have authority / lord it over / acts as tyrants over
Berean Standard / Modern / 2016, 2020 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
Berean literal / Literal / 2016, 2020 / use authority / exercise lordship / exercise authority over
For those interested: Here is an extensive but not exhaustive list of post Paul uses. I researched most of them but not all of them. I encourage you to do your own research. If you find anything insightful and interesting, please share it in the comments to help us learn together. Your thoughts and questions are appreciated!
AUTHENTEO/AUTHENTES MEANING /POST PAUL/ AUTHOR; GENRE; SOURCE
rulership of one planet over another, superior… /??50 BC-/ 100 +AD??/ Methodus Mystica/ Astrological/toxic cocktail syncretism (date is uncertain) Hermeticism - New World Encyclopedia
absolute sovereignty above all things /50- 100 AD/ Cerinthus/early Gnostic in Ephesus; per Irenaeus' Against Heresies (180 AD)
– “perpetrator of crime” /75-80AD/ Flavius Josephus; Jewish Wars (BJ. 1.582.1)
– “perpetrator of slaughter” /75-80AD/ Flavius Josephys; Jewish Wars (BJ.2.240.5)
masters, leaders re the moon /80-120 AD/ Dorotheus of Sidon/Astrological; Carmen Astrologicum
Supreme deity, absolute sovereignty /100-120 AD/ Saturninus, Syrian Gnostic; Per Irenaeus Against Heresies (180AD)
Master /Lord of tower (church) allegory referring to Jesus /140-155AD/ Hermas, Christian, brother to Bishop Pius 1; Shepherd of Hermas (some erroneously dated this earlier as 40-60AD)
– “perpetrator of evil” /150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; Mithrades 90.1
– “murderer” x 2 times /150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; History of Rome (BC.1.7.61.7; 1.13.115.17)
– “slayer”150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; History of Rome (BC. 3.2.16.13)
– “slayer of oneself” /150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; History of Rome (BC. 4.17.134.40)
authoritative/dominates (BAGD) re Saturn /150-170 AD/ Ptolemy/Astronomy, mathematician; Tetrabiblos III 13.338
dominance/mastery re astrology 150-170 AD/ Ptolemy/Astronomy, mathematician; Tetrabiblos 3.14.10
supervisory authority re planets /150-175 AD/ Vettius Valens/astrology; Anthology
see Cerinthus and Saturninus /180 AD/ Irenaeus (Church Father; Against Heresies (180AD) citing early gnostics
murder through using others /100-200 AD/ Harpocration/Grammarian re Lysias /orator (445-380 BC); Lexicon
perpetrates the murder /100-200 AD/ Harpocration/Grammarian re Lysias /orator (445-380 BC); Suda
dealing with murder /300-400AD/ Sopater Atheniensis/Rhetorician
destroyer of the Phocians /315-386 AD/ Himerius/Sophist
Absolute, Divine, Equal, Sovereign, Supreme /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Authente family referring to Jesus Christ 60+, God & Holy Spirit 10+)
delegated limited servant level authority /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homiliies on satan
Authority of God's Divine truth, Scripture, law /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies in general
Bold, forceful rebuke to confront sin /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies re Apostle Paul
encouraged a pastoral, gentler, restrained, tempered response/authority instead of authentes /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies re Apostle Paul, Peter, Andrew, Timothy, elders, leaders
deacon/leaders abusing authority/power /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); letter to Pope Innocent re trial by eccl leaders
Eve influenced and taught man badly once, so now restricted and submits to prevent error /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Gen 3/ I Tim 2-14 re Adam & Eve
neither believing husband or wife are to authentei over each other, prohibited for both /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy & Colossians re husband and wife relationships
ok to teach husband if a non- believer /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy
avoid authentein, esp w unbelievers; serve instead of authentias /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies on Colossians & 1 Timothy; re family of God & Episkope
prohibited action of women (elderly widows) cannot teach men /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120-150 uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy 5 and 2:12 re widows
autonomous freedom making sinful choices /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120-150 uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy 5:6 re young widows
arrogant, demanding authentias compared to Paul's gentler approach /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120-150 uses); Homilies re exploitive & false teachers
Trinitarian / ecclesial context … /350-379 AD/ Basil the Great
…for supreme authority/sovereignty /350-390 AD/ Gregory of Nazianzus
Not proficient in Greek, consulted w Jerome & lexicons to help him /354-430 AD/ Augustine of Hippo (Latin > didn’t know much Greek)
This post is PART 3, intended to bridge PART 2 AND PART 4... Here's the sequence in case you are interested in reading any you missed or want to read them in order. I hope this helps make it more cohesive:
PART 5 (POST PAUL) UP NEXT- use of authentes family after 60AD with a few pre-Paul exceptions.
PART 6 (THE SHIFT) - analysis of the "authente" family shifting from predominantly negative, violent, forceful action pre-Paul to general authority in our day, with variations of meaning in between.
PART 7+... COMING NEXT MONTH - authentein summary, created order (1 Tim 2:13-14), women and childbirth (1 Tim 2:15), witchcraft in Ephesus (Acts 19:19) & letters to Timothy, & possibly a few more focuses on some specific concerns Paul includes in his letters to Timothy that have had an impact on women.
Any questions or comments are much appreciated! There are some very dark and disturbing deeds that went on, so I'm trying to give a general idea for the most part without graphic details.
This pre-Paul use of authentein post is actually part 4 of the series, part 3 was meant to be posted last week and it got missed, so hopefully in the next day or so, part 3 will help connect the flow between #2 and #4...
I have some extra info that didn't make it into the main part of the article for anyone interested...
the first extra info includes a link to Plato's laws, along with excerpts and the links for Strong's topical lexicon in Bible hub that is referred to in the last paragraph on patraloas and metraloas aka kin murder...
EXCERPT• Paul’s Greek readers therefore heard an offense universally abhorred in civil society and unmistakably condemned within the revealed moral order. EOQ my emphasis added
EXCERPT: Greco-Roman Setting:In Roman culture, parricide (the killing of a parent or close relative) was formally punished by the poena cullei, death by drowning in a sack with animals. Paul’s audience would recognize matricide as a crime so heinous that even pagan society recoiled from it. By listing μητρολῴαις (matroloais), Paul demonstrates that the Mosaic Law continues to expose the extreme depravity of fallen. EOQ my emphasis added
the second piece is the pre Paul list of about 30 "authente" uses for anyone interested. I will include it in the next comment.
For anyone interested, here’s the Pre-Paul list compiled from multiple sources, including lexicons and Dr. Leland Wilshire’s TLG list (I noted specific BDAG references). There are around 30 citations pre-Paul that indicate the authente family is primarily a harmful, often violent action, including murder, until after Paul’s time. There are several exceptions pre-Paul which I will cover in a future post as part of the Shift. I will also share why we are looking at the entire authente word family for an expanded picture, not just the verb since it is so rare:
author/doer of the deed ('re massacre at Maronea); 200-118 BC; Polybius/Historian; The Histories 22.14.2.3
parents who murdered their children; 250BC; Septuagint Wisdom of Solomon 12:6
restriction of rights; 150-100BC; Septuagint; 3rd Maccabees 2.29.3
Authorized or murderous (BDAG); 110-35 BC; Philodemus/philosopher, poet; P Herculaneum 220; Rhet 11 133.14
came to have authority (BDAG); 27-26 BC; Tryphon's Letter; Papyrus #1208; BGU IV 351.38
Originator of the speech; 27 BC; Aristonicus Alexandrinus / grammarian, On the Signs of the Iliad 9.694
author of crimes; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Bib. Hist. 17.5.4.6
perpetrators of sacrilege; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Book 35 Attalus.org
supporter of violent actions; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Photian fragment 35.25
perpetrator of kin murderer; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Photius, Bibl. Codex 244
murderer of oneself; 20BC-45AD; Philo Judaeus/Hellenistic Jewish philosopher/ Quod Deterius Potiori Insidiari Soleat = Worse is Wont to Attack the Better (Det. 78.7 allegory re Cain murdering Abel)
rulership of one planet over another, superior…; ??50 BC- 100+AD??; Methodus Mystica / Astrological
– “perpetrator of crime”; 37-95 AD; Flavius Josephus; Jewish Wars (BJ. 1.582.1)
– “perpetrator of slaughter”; 37-95 AD; Flavius Josephus; Jewish Wars (BJ.2.240.5)
Thank you Jill... it has been a rich treasure hunt of digging for God's truth. I love puzzles and often see patterns in whatever I'm working on. The patterns of context re how the authente family has been used since 500 BC are super fascinating! It has literally shifted from one of the most negative words from 500 BC-100BC. A little shift starting around 100BC-150 AD, but still primarily negative, to significant shift by 350 AD to become one of the most positive words used by Chrysostom to refer to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit (different story though when referring to people)! So spoiler: both egals and comps are right: authentein can be negative, positive and neutral, but the context and timing matter for what Paul meant in 1 Tim 2:12!
That transformation will be expanded in "the Shift" article coming up in a few weeks!
Eric, I really do appreciate the concerns you share. Thank you! that's ok if I don't convince you (or others) that murder is what Paul meant, but can you see the possibility that murder seems to be a primary meaning of the hapax authentein / authente word family before Paul? I've maybe become a bit numb to what a big & shocking stretch this might be from general authority, it didn't go over well with comp scholars and theologians in the 80's when this meaning was re-introduced.
This isn't secret or special knowledge. I'm very thankful there is tangible evidence to support what I share, whether people agree with it or not. That's what some people do, examine and research and dig, especially when there are questions that don't make sense or don't add up. Biblically, this was considered a noble task and we are still called to do that. I am making a case based on what I have found.
I love the word metanoia, recognizing being off track, going the wrong way, and changing in a new direction with deep conviction. Sadly and harmfully, metanoia was translated as "do penance" by Jerome's Vulgate, which got the Church off track for over 1000 years with indulgences, etc. In 1516 Erasmus translated it as repentance instead which inspired Luther's 95 thesis as part of the reformation! Why did this take over a 1000 years?
There are some things that in various ways got lost over the ages through traditions of man/elders (God/Jesus literally warns us that this can happen per Matt 15 and Mark 7, which is still applicable for today), through translations, through literally being buried, and other means. This was part of the story of the historian Josephus. He wrote a lot about this amazing city Caesarea that Herod built, but it was buried under silt over the centuries so modern theologians dismissed Josephus as a unreliable historian as there was no evidence of this luxurious city... until Caesarea was discovered by archeologists, and even then it took decades for Josephus to be commonly accepted as a reliable historian, which most do now.
For whatever reason, these are fascinating stories for me. Another one Justinian von Welz (1600s)... love this guy!!! He literally gave up his titles as a nobleman bc only Jesus deserves to be called "Lord"... but he was literally condemned as an agent of satan by the church for wanting to follow the great commission and share the gospel in other countries. He died in Surinam and was mostly forgotten for 20-30 years. How did the Matt 28 Great Commission get lost over time? Baron Justinian Von Welz :: Gospel Fellowship Association Missions
I also love Zinzendorf and the Moravians and how they restored the Great Commission in 1732 using Von Welz ideas 50-60 years later! William Carey's attempts to start a missionary society, inspired by the Moravians, was originally rebuffed by the church leaders as well with "sit down young man, God is sovereign and He doesn't need your help or mine". A significant improvement from 100 years before when Von Welz was called an agent of satan by the church leaders.
These were some of the significant gaps in the church over the ages that God allowed for a time, and some for even a 1000+ years.
I don't know Eric. There are other pretty significant examples that I'm aware of, where key spiritual principles, etc. somehow were forgotten for centuries. These are honest wrestlings with information I cannot ignore that are not special revelation or secret knowledge. The irony is I'm literally including the proto gnostic influence as part of the problem that Paul and Timothy are dealing with along with the other pagan cults.
I'm going to keep wrestling, keep asking, keep seeking, keep researching, keep testing, keep sharing, etc.... pray, ponder, process... I believe this journey actually strengthens faith in God, His word, His principles, because His profound ways will stand up to serious scrutiny!
Blessings Aaron, have an amazing day of worship, celebration, fellowship and rest... DV, I will respond Monday or Tuesday. I don't say the DV lightly because I was hit by a car when I was in a crosswalk Friday evening and PTL, He protected me, and I walked away!
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 7: The Shift Continues
FYI some notes on pagan practices mentioned in ancient documents to give an idea of some of the things the early church wrestled with:
DIDACHE (85 AD-200 AD): The Didache in English; CH 2: you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. CH 3: My child, be not superstitious, since it leads to idolatry. Be neither an enchanter, nor an astrologer... CH 5: idolatries, magic arts, witchcrafts... murderers of children (ie through abandonment and exposure)...
CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (202 AD): The writings of Clement of Alexandria : Clement, of Alexandria, Saint, ca. 150-ca. 215 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive ; especially chapter III The Cruelty of the Sacrifices to the gods; Exhortation to the Heathens, p48-49
COUNCIL OF NICAEA: CHURCH FATHERS: First Council of Nicaea (A.D. 325) Canon 1, there is a history here of at least several hundred years on this disturbing pagan practice and I find it interesting that this is the issue the council lists as the first canon that indicates it is still part of the problem for the early church in 325 AD, because it was part of the problem in Paul's time as well, which I have not included anywhere in the series and probably won't other than here to say the practice was also part of the toxic mess in Ephesus connected to one of the goddesses and Nicaea was still dealing with it a few hundred years later.
AUTHENTE CONTEXTS 2 & 3 up next...
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 7: The Shift Continues
Thanks Sarah, this is a fascinating and rich journey of God's beautiful principles for His family!
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 7: The Shift Continues
I want to share a list of how authentein has been translated in various versions of the Bible compared to how lording it over and exercise authority are translated in Matt 20:25. Interestingly it mostly lines up with the lording it over, more than the exercise authority over...
here's a fairly extensive list from about 150AD to modern versions, NOTE: general "have authority" or "exercise authority" is primarily the last 125 years, Erasmus introduced authority but qualified it with usurp as illegitimate, taken unlawfully, by force, the Geneva (1587) and King James (1611) and a few others also used usurp after that with a few using just "authority" from 1526-1903...
VERSION / TYPE / YEAR / 1 Tim 2:12 authority? / Matt 20:25 lord over / Matt 20:25 exercise authority
GREEK / ORIGINAL / 50 AD-100 AD / AUTHENTEIN / KATAKYRIEUOUSIN / KATEXOUSIAZOUSIN
Old Latin / ANCIENT / 150-250 / dominari / dominantur / petestatem exercent
Syriac / ANCIENT / 170-200 / NO TRANSLATION for authentein
Coptic / ANCIENT / 170-300 / dominate / lord over / rule harshly, dominate
Syriac Peshitta/ ANCIENT/ 300-400 / be authoritative, domineering / lord over / exercise dominion
Ethiopic / ANCIENT / 300-500 / lord over/dominate / rule over/dominate harshly / oppressive power over
Vulgate -Jerome / Latin / 400 / dominari / dominantur eorum / potestatem exercent
Armenian / ANCIENT / 410-440 / dominate/lord over / dominate/lord over / exercise power, authority
Georgian / ANCIENT / 400-600 / dominate/lord over / dominate/lord over / exercise dominion
Arabic / 867 AD / dominating/mastery over / dominate/control harshly / command imperiously
Cyril & Methodius / Old Slavonic / 863-900 / lord over, dominate / lord it over / exercise authority over
Wycliffe / ENGLISH / 1380-1384 / lordship on husband / lordis of hem / usen power on hem
Erasmus / Greek/Latin / 1516 / usurp authority / Same as Greek/Latin / Same as Greek/Latin
Tyndale / Early / 1526 / have authority / dominacio over / exercise power
Coverdale / Early / 1535 / have authority / domynacion of people / exercise power among
Bishops / Early / 1568 / usurp authority / dominion over / exercise aucthoritie
Geneva / Early / 1587 / usurp authority / have domination over / exercise authoritie
Douay Rheims / Modern / 1609 / use authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
KJV / Classic / 1611 / usurp authority / exercise dominion over / exercise authority over
Webster / Classic / 1833 / usurp authority / exercise dominion over / exercise authority over
Youngs Literal / Literal / 1862 / rule a husband / exercise lordship over / exercise authority over
English Revised / Classic / 1885 / have dominion / lord it over / exercise authority over
ASV / Classic / 1901 / have dominion / lord it over / exercise authority over
Weymouth / Modern / 1903 / have authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
New American / Modern / 1970 / have authority / domineer over / exercise authority over
NKJV / Classic / 1982 / have authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NIV 1984 / Modern / 1984 / have authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NRSV / Modern / 1989 / have authority / lord it over / great ones tyrants over
NASB / Modern / 1995 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NET / Modern / 1995 / exercise authority / lord it over / use authority over
Cont English / Modern / 1995 / tell men what to do / order people around / full power & rule over
New Heart English / Public / 2010 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
ISV / Modern / 2011 / instigate conflict / lord it over / superiors acts as tyrants over
NIV 2011 / Modern / 2011 / assume authority / lord it over / exercise authority over / Literal SV
Literal / 2020 / rule a husband / exercise lordship over / exercise authority over
World English / Classic / 1901, 2016 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NASB / Modern / 1961, 1995, 2020 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
AMP / Modern / 1965, 2015 / exercise authority / absolute power / lord over / exercise authority over
Good News / Modern / 1966, 1976 / have authority / have power over / complete authority
NASB / Modern / 1971, 1977, 1995, 2020 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
NLT / Modern / 1996, 2004, 2015 / have authority / lord it over / flaunt authority over
Holman / Modern / 1999-2009 / have authority / dominate them / exercise power over
ESV / Modern / 2001, 2016 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
Christian Std / Modern / 2009, 2017 / have authority / lord it over / acts as tyrants over
Berean Standard / Modern / 2016, 2020 / exercise authority / lord it over / exercise authority over
Berean literal / Literal / 2016, 2020 / use authority / exercise lordship / exercise authority over
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 5:The Post-Paul Use of Authente
For those interested: Here is an extensive but not exhaustive list of post Paul uses. I researched most of them but not all of them. I encourage you to do your own research. If you find anything insightful and interesting, please share it in the comments to help us learn together. Your thoughts and questions are appreciated!
AUTHENTEO/AUTHENTES MEANING /POST PAUL/ AUTHOR; GENRE; SOURCE
AUTHENTEIN TBD /61-63AD/ Apostle Paul/I Timothy 2:12
rulership of one planet over another, superior… /??50 BC-/ 100 +AD??/ Methodus Mystica/ Astrological/toxic cocktail syncretism (date is uncertain) Hermeticism - New World Encyclopedia
absolute sovereignty above all things /50- 100 AD/ Cerinthus/early Gnostic in Ephesus; per Irenaeus' Against Heresies (180 AD)
– “perpetrator of crime” /75-80AD/ Flavius Josephus; Jewish Wars (BJ. 1.582.1)
– “perpetrator of slaughter” /75-80AD/ Flavius Josephys; Jewish Wars (BJ.2.240.5)
masters, leaders re the moon /80-120 AD/ Dorotheus of Sidon/Astrological; Carmen Astrologicum
Supreme deity, absolute sovereignty /100-120 AD/ Saturninus, Syrian Gnostic; Per Irenaeus Against Heresies (180AD)
Master /Lord of tower (church) allegory referring to Jesus /140-155AD/ Hermas, Christian, brother to Bishop Pius 1; Shepherd of Hermas (some erroneously dated this earlier as 40-60AD)
– “perpetrator of evil” /150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; Mithrades 90.1
– “murderer” x 2 times /150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; History of Rome (BC.1.7.61.7; 1.13.115.17)
– “slayer”150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; History of Rome (BC. 3.2.16.13)
– “slayer of oneself” /150-165 AD/ Appian of Alexander/historian; History of Rome (BC. 4.17.134.40)
authoritative/dominates (BAGD) re Saturn /150-170 AD/ Ptolemy/Astronomy, mathematician; Tetrabiblos III 13.338
dominance/mastery re astrology 150-170 AD/ Ptolemy/Astronomy, mathematician; Tetrabiblos 3.14.10
supervisory authority re planets /150-175 AD/ Vettius Valens/astrology; Anthology
see Cerinthus and Saturninus /180 AD/ Irenaeus (Church Father; Against Heresies (180AD) citing early gnostics
murder through using others /100-200 AD/ Harpocration/Grammarian re Lysias /orator (445-380 BC); Lexicon
perpetrates the murder /100-200 AD/ Harpocration/Grammarian re Lysias /orator (445-380 BC); Suda
independent jurisdiction, self- determination /100-200 AD/ Moeris Atticista Lexicon Atticum/Grammarian
supreme authority, highest source /100-300 AD/ Poimandres (Astrological Hermetic Gnostic text); Corpus Hermeticum
CLEMENT USED BOTH MEANINGS:
(angels) are murderers/perpetrators of violent acts /190-200 AD/ Clement of Alexandria/ Chr theologian/ philosopher/ Stromata 2.8.38.5-6
mutual authority between husband and wife per 1 Cor 7:4 /190-200 AD/ Clement of Alexandria/ Chr theologian/ philosopher/ Stromata 3.18.106.2-3
self-murderer (authentes) and suicide (autophoneus) /190-200 AD/ Clement of Alexandria/ Chr theologian/ philosopher/ Stromata 4.4.16.3-4
(Scriptures) omnipotent authority 190-200 AD/ Clement of Alexandria/ Chr theologian/ philosopher/ Stromata 4.1.2.2-4
Rightful sovereign authority/power/mastery of the Lord /190-200 AD/ Clement of Alexandria/ Chr theologian/philosopher/Paedagogus 2.3.36.1-4
awareness of authenteo but no use in 1 Tim 2 /185-254 AD/ Origen
– “one who murders by his own hand” /100-200AD/ Phrynichus Arabius/Grammarian, rhetorician
lord/master over slave (w inhumane cruelty added as descriptor) /217-235 AD/ Hippolytus of Rome
supreme authority /200-300 AD/ Pseudo Clement
Divine power/sovereignty of God/Christ /296-373 AD/ Athanasius of Alexandria
exercise of improper power/(doctrinal/eccl.) supreme authority /296-373 AD/ Athanasius of Alexandria
murder /317-388 AD/ Themistius/Statesman, rhetorician, philosopher
dealing with murder /300-400AD/ Sopater Atheniensis/Rhetorician
destroyer of the Phocians /315-386 AD/ Himerius/Sophist
Absolute, Divine, Equal, Sovereign, Supreme /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Authente family referring to Jesus Christ 60+, God & Holy Spirit 10+)
delegated limited servant level authority /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homiliies on satan
Authority of God's Divine truth, Scripture, law /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies in general
Bold, forceful rebuke to confront sin /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies re Apostle Paul
encouraged a pastoral, gentler, restrained, tempered response/authority instead of authentes /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies re Apostle Paul, Peter, Andrew, Timothy, elders, leaders
deacon/leaders abusing authority/power /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); letter to Pope Innocent re trial by eccl leaders
Eve influenced and taught man badly once, so now restricted and submits to prevent error /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Gen 3/ I Tim 2-14 re Adam & Eve
neither believing husband or wife are to authentei over each other, prohibited for both /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy & Colossians re husband and wife relationships
ok to teach husband if a non- believer /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy
avoid authentein, esp w unbelievers; serve instead of authentias /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120+ uses); Homilies on Colossians & 1 Timothy; re family of God & Episkope
prohibited action of women (elderly widows) cannot teach men /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120-150 uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy 5 and 2:12 re widows
autonomous freedom making sinful choices /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120-150 uses); Homilies on 1 Timothy 5:6 re young widows
arrogant, demanding authentias compared to Paul's gentler approach /380-407 AD/ John Chrysostom (120-150 uses); Homilies re exploitive & false teachers
Trinitarian / ecclesial context … /350-379 AD/ Basil the Great
…for supreme authority/sovereignty /350-390 AD/ Gregory of Nazianzus
Not proficient in Greek, consulted w Jerome & lexicons to help him /354-430 AD/ Augustine of Hippo (Latin > didn’t know much Greek)
dominates /490-570 AD/ Joannes Philoponus/ Philosophical writer
cause murders through agency of others /445-380 BC/10th cent AD/ Lysias/Orator via Suda/Byzantine Lexicon
ANCIENT TRANSLATIONS:
dominari /150-> 250AD/ Old Latin/ Vetus Latina (series of independent versions)
dominari in virum /382-405 AD/ Jerome/Latin Vulgate
be authoritative over w a sense of a negative domineering /300-400 AD/ Syriac Peshitta
to be lord, or to lord it over/be master over /170-300AD/ Coptic
rule over or have dominion over /300-500 AD/ Ethiopic
to dominate or have mastery over /600-900AD/ Arabic
to dominate or rule over /400-414 AD/ Mesrop Mashtots, etc
have power over to rule/domineer /350-383 AD/ Ulfilas
domineer/lord over /400-500 AD/ Georgian
Posted in: Continuing to Piece Together the Whole Picture for Women
This post is PART 3, intended to bridge PART 2 AND PART 4... Here's the sequence in case you are interested in reading any you missed or want to read them in order. I hope this helps make it more cohesive:
PART 1 (INTRO): Getting the Whole Picture: Women and Ministry in 1 Timothy | CRC Network
PART 2 (CULTURE): Getting the Whole Picture: A Missing Piece of the Women in Office Puzzle | CRC Network
PART 3 (CORRECTIONS): Continuing to Piece Together the Whole Picture for Women | CRC Network
PART 4 (PRE PAUL): Getting the Whole Picture: The Pre-Paul Use of Authente | CRC Network
PART 5 (POST PAUL) UP NEXT- use of authentes family after 60AD with a few pre-Paul exceptions.
PART 6 (THE SHIFT) - analysis of the "authente" family shifting from predominantly negative, violent, forceful action pre-Paul to general authority in our day, with variations of meaning in between.
PART 7+... COMING NEXT MONTH - authentein summary, created order (1 Tim 2:13-14), women and childbirth (1 Tim 2:15), witchcraft in Ephesus (Acts 19:19) & letters to Timothy, & possibly a few more focuses on some specific concerns Paul includes in his letters to Timothy that have had an impact on women.
Any questions or comments are much appreciated! There are some very dark and disturbing deeds that went on, so I'm trying to give a general idea for the most part without graphic details.
Posted in: Continuing to Piece Together the Whole Picture for Women
Thank you Jill! The timing is really interesting as Preston Sprinkle just released his new book this month "Genesis to Junia" sharing his journey from comp to egal...From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says About Women in Leadership: Sprinkle, Preston: 9780830785803: Amazon.com: Books
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture: The Pre-Paul Use of Authente
Thanks for reading!
This pre-Paul use of authentein post is actually part 4 of the series, part 3 was meant to be posted last week and it got missed, so hopefully in the next day or so, part 3 will help connect the flow between #2 and #4...
I have some extra info that didn't make it into the main part of the article for anyone interested...
the first extra info includes a link to Plato's laws, along with excerpts and the links for Strong's topical lexicon in Bible hub that is referred to in the last paragraph on patraloas and metraloas aka kin murder...
The Criminal Jurisprudence of Plato's Laws p 193.
Strong's Greek: 3964. πατραλῴας (patralóas) -- Parricide, father-murderer
EXCERPT• Paul’s Greek readers therefore heard an offense universally abhorred in civil society and unmistakably condemned within the revealed moral order. EOQ my emphasis added
Strong's Greek: 3389. μητραλῴας (métrolóas) -- Mother-insulter
EXCERPT: Greco-Roman Setting: In Roman culture, parricide (the killing of a parent or close relative) was formally punished by the poena cullei, death by drowning in a sack with animals. Paul’s audience would recognize matricide as a crime so heinous that even pagan society recoiled from it. By listing μητρολῴαις (matroloais), Paul demonstrates that the Mosaic Law continues to expose the extreme depravity of fallen. EOQ my emphasis added
the second piece is the pre Paul list of about 30 "authente" uses for anyone interested. I will include it in the next comment.
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture: The Pre-Paul Use of Authente
For anyone interested, here’s the Pre-Paul list compiled from multiple sources, including lexicons and Dr. Leland Wilshire’s TLG list (I noted specific BDAG references). There are around 30 citations pre-Paul that indicate the authente family is primarily a harmful, often violent action, including murder, until after Paul’s time. There are several exceptions pre-Paul which I will cover in a future post as part of the Shift. I will also share why we are looking at the entire authente word family for an expanded picture, not just the verb since it is so rare:
AUTHENTEO/AUTHENTES MEANING; DATE; AUTHOR/GENRE/SOURCE
by a murder of kin; 525-456 BC; Aeschylus/Tragedy/Agamemnon 1573
murder of the self-same blood and kin /relative; 525-456 BC; Aeschylus/Tragedy/Eumenides 212
punish the murderers of Laius; 496-406 BC; Sophocles/Tragedy/Oedipus the King 107
Murderer or slayer - uses 2 times; 480-406 BC; Euripides/Tragedy/Medea (And.172,614)
Murderer or slayer - uses 2 times; 480-406 BC; Euripides/Tragedy/Herakles (Herc.839,1359)
Murderer or slayer; 480-406 BC; Euripides/Tragedy/Medea (Tr. 660)
Murderer or slayer; 480-406 BC; Euripides/Tragedy/Iphigeni in Anlo (IA. 1190)
Murderer or slayer; 480-406 BC; Euripides/Tragedy/Cyclops (Ph. 873)
Master (meaning disputed); 480-406 BC; Euripides/Tragedy/Suppliants (Supp. 442)
self-inflicted death (with a javelin); 480-411 BC; Antiphon/orator; II Tetralogy 3.4.6; 6.11.4; 4.4.3; 4.10.1
not to be under same roof with a murderer; 480-411 BC; Antiphon/Orator/On the Murder of Herodes 11.6 re Areopagus
murdered (BDAG); 458-0 BC???; notes by Scribe (Dydmus Chalcenterus per Payne) re Aeschylus Eumenides
murder a child; 480-411 BC; Herodotus/Historian; The Histories 1.117.12
among their slayers; 460-400 BC; Thucydides/historian & general; Hist of Pelop. War 3.58.5.4
another orator just noted it was used; 445-380 BC; Lysias/Orator; fragment of speech
murderers of Amycus; 295-24? BC; Apollonious Rhodius/poet/scholar; Argonautica 2.754
murder, atone for treacherous murder; 295-24? BC; Apollonious Rhodius/poet/scholar; Argonautica 4.479
author/doer of the deed ('re massacre at Maronea); 200-118 BC; Polybius/Historian; The Histories 22.14.2.3
parents who murdered their children; 250BC; Septuagint Wisdom of Solomon 12:6
restriction of rights; 150-100BC; Septuagint; 3rd Maccabees 2.29.3
Authorized or murderous (BDAG); 110-35 BC; Philodemus/philosopher, poet; P Herculaneum 220; Rhet 11 133.14
came to have authority (BDAG); 27-26 BC; Tryphon's Letter; Papyrus #1208; BGU IV 351.38
Originator of the speech; 27 BC; Aristonicus Alexandrinus / grammarian, On the Signs of the Iliad 9.694
author of crimes; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Bib. Hist. 17.5.4.6
perpetrators of sacrilege; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Book 35 Attalus.org
supporter of violent actions; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Photian fragment 35.25
perpetrator of kin murderer; 60BC-20AD; Diodorus Siculus/historian; Photius, Bibl. Codex 244
murderer of oneself; 20BC-45AD; Philo Judaeus/Hellenistic Jewish philosopher/ Quod Deterius Potiori Insidiari Soleat = Worse is Wont to Attack the Better (Det. 78.7 allegory re Cain murdering Abel)
rulership of one planet over another, superior…; ??50 BC- 100+AD??; Methodus Mystica / Astrological
– “perpetrator of crime”; 37-95 AD; Flavius Josephus; Jewish Wars (BJ. 1.582.1)
– “perpetrator of slaughter”; 37-95 AD; Flavius Josephus; Jewish Wars (BJ.2.240.5)
AUTHENTEIN TBD; 61-63AD; Apostle Paul/I Timothy 2:12
Hope this list is helpful for the Pre-Paul section of the puzzle!
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture: A Missing Piece of the Women in Office Puzzle
Thank you Jill... it has been a rich treasure hunt of digging for God's truth. I love puzzles and often see patterns in whatever I'm working on. The patterns of context re how the authente family has been used since 500 BC are super fascinating! It has literally shifted from one of the most negative words from 500 BC-100BC. A little shift starting around 100BC-150 AD, but still primarily negative, to significant shift by 350 AD to become one of the most positive words used by Chrysostom to refer to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit (different story though when referring to people)! So spoiler: both egals and comps are right: authentein can be negative, positive and neutral, but the context and timing matter for what Paul meant in 1 Tim 2:12!
That transformation will be expanded in "the Shift" article coming up in a few weeks!
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture: Women and Ministry in 1 Timothy
Eric, I really do appreciate the concerns you share. Thank you! that's ok if I don't convince you (or others) that murder is what Paul meant, but can you see the possibility that murder seems to be a primary meaning of the hapax authentein / authente word family before Paul? I've maybe become a bit numb to what a big & shocking stretch this might be from general authority, it didn't go over well with comp scholars and theologians in the 80's when this meaning was re-introduced.
This isn't secret or special knowledge. I'm very thankful there is tangible evidence to support what I share, whether people agree with it or not. That's what some people do, examine and research and dig, especially when there are questions that don't make sense or don't add up. Biblically, this was considered a noble task and we are still called to do that. I am making a case based on what I have found.
I love the word metanoia, recognizing being off track, going the wrong way, and changing in a new direction with deep conviction. Sadly and harmfully, metanoia was translated as "do penance" by Jerome's Vulgate, which got the Church off track for over 1000 years with indulgences, etc. In 1516 Erasmus translated it as repentance instead which inspired Luther's 95 thesis as part of the reformation! Why did this take over a 1000 years?
There are some things that in various ways got lost over the ages through traditions of man/elders (God/Jesus literally warns us that this can happen per Matt 15 and Mark 7, which is still applicable for today), through translations, through literally being buried, and other means. This was part of the story of the historian Josephus. He wrote a lot about this amazing city Caesarea that Herod built, but it was buried under silt over the centuries so modern theologians dismissed Josephus as a unreliable historian as there was no evidence of this luxurious city... until Caesarea was discovered by archeologists, and even then it took decades for Josephus to be commonly accepted as a reliable historian, which most do now.
For whatever reason, these are fascinating stories for me. Another one Justinian von Welz (1600s)... love this guy!!! He literally gave up his titles as a nobleman bc only Jesus deserves to be called "Lord"... but he was literally condemned as an agent of satan by the church for wanting to follow the great commission and share the gospel in other countries. He died in Surinam and was mostly forgotten for 20-30 years. How did the Matt 28 Great Commission get lost over time? Baron Justinian Von Welz :: Gospel Fellowship Association Missions
I also love Zinzendorf and the Moravians and how they restored the Great Commission in 1732 using Von Welz ideas 50-60 years later! William Carey's attempts to start a missionary society, inspired by the Moravians, was originally rebuffed by the church leaders as well with "sit down young man, God is sovereign and He doesn't need your help or mine". A significant improvement from 100 years before when Von Welz was called an agent of satan by the church leaders.
These were some of the significant gaps in the church over the ages that God allowed for a time, and some for even a 1000+ years.
I don't know Eric. There are other pretty significant examples that I'm aware of, where key spiritual principles, etc. somehow were forgotten for centuries. These are honest wrestlings with information I cannot ignore that are not special revelation or secret knowledge. The irony is I'm literally including the proto gnostic influence as part of the problem that Paul and Timothy are dealing with along with the other pagan cults.
I'm going to keep wrestling, keep asking, keep seeking, keep researching, keep testing, keep sharing, etc.... pray, ponder, process... I believe this journey actually strengthens faith in God, His word, His principles, because His profound ways will stand up to serious scrutiny!
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture: Women and Ministry in 1 Timothy
Blessings Aaron, have an amazing day of worship, celebration, fellowship and rest... DV, I will respond Monday or Tuesday. I don't say the DV lightly because I was hit by a car when I was in a crosswalk Friday evening and PTL, He protected me, and I walked away!
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture: Women and Ministry in 1 Timothy
Thanks for sharing this, Lloyd! May you enjoy rich worship, celebrating Who He is and what He has done, together with the Family of God!