My apologies for becoming inarticulate in my last two sentences in the previous post.
The second last sentence should have read "...putting them aside and adding the multipled savings to the CRCNA Pension, CPP/OAS, and/or Social Security payments on retirement."
On another matter, one needs to consider the scope of responsibility and span of control of the position when determining compensation. Making an assessment on pension payment allocation solely on job title is not helpful.
Wendy, as read the comments I'm wondering whether the question being asked needs some clarification:
1. Do you mean by special collections.... Those collections historically identified as second collections in contrast to collections for the church budget; and
2. When individuals speak of the church budget... Are ministry shares still built into the congregational budget or have they been assigned as a special collection.
3. As a matter of personal interest... Is it still part of the liturgy to have the deacons bring these gifts forward to the Lord in the worship service in prayer?
We have one collection, a cause selected by the deacons. The collection for the budget is received either at a box at the entrance to the sanctuary, automated deposit, or in the budget envelope during the collection for the deacon selected cause.
Kimberly provides a good link. Best to check with appropriate state or provincial legislation in the area of Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy legislation. Signed consent forms by adults and guardians should be standard practice.
How does this move us forward as the body of Christ in understanding those who we were to disciple and now are strangers to the flock, and the alien who resides among us for whom Christ called us to the great commission?
If we always disagree with each other and the typical "protestant" response is schismatic, i.e. to leave, who will be left to have a conversation with let alone engage in commual worship? When we will come to grips with building bridges between differences, assuming we all belong to the body of Christ." 1 Corinthians 12: 12 – 27
Is it possible to still bridge differences on stewardship and gender, etc. or have we as Christ bearers unconsciously imbided too deeply at well of post-modern individualism that we have walled ourselves into gated communities.
How we engage with those who are troubled by their experience of church, as reported by Barna and Christianity Today:
Isolationism. One-fourth of 18- to 29-year-olds say church demonizes everything outside church, including the music, movies, culture, and technology that define their generation.
Shallowness. One-third call church boring, about one-fourth say faith is irrelevant and Bible teaching is unclear. One-fifth say God is absent from their church experience.
Anti-science. Up to one-third say the church is out of step on scientific developments and debate.
Sex. The church is perceived as simplistic and judgmental. For a fifth or more, a "just say no" philosophy is insufficient in a techno-porno world. Young Christian singles are as sexually active as their non-churched friends, and many say they feel judged.
Exclusivity. Three in 10 young people feel the church is too exclusive in this pluralistic and multi-cultural age. And the same number feel forced to choose between their faith and their friends.
Doubters. The church is not a safe place to express doubts say over one-third of young people, and one-fourth have serious doubts they'd like to discuss.
What have we missed in both discipleship and the great commission?
This is not just a CRCNA issue, but a North America wide phenomena that is sweeping through ALL churches and has been documented since at least 2005 in research studies.
Looking at the numbers from the perspective of families is problematic when individuals who use to get married in their 20's today get married in their 30's, if at all. Moreover, those families also have fewer children today. My own research indicates that Yearbook membership numbers are out by approximately 25% - 30%, quite apart from the yearly drop in membership numbers.
Though the work of SPACT is helpful, I feel as if we are a community "inside a box" looking out, self referencing our analysis without really coming to grips with the socio-cultural changes occurring around us.
Individuals are disaffiliating from participation in institutional, community, and neighbourhood life. Though they may have personal reasons, there are broader philosophical changes afoot that consciously or unconsciously affect those decisions. Matters of the "common good" have been fractured into privatized relativistic worldviews making consensus in civic life ever more difficult.
Below are some references to articles on why "churches are losing members..."
Angus Reid 2013-12 Poll – Christmas – Religion
Barna Group 2003-09-24 Twenty somethings Struggle to Find Their Place in Christian Churches
Barna Group 2011-07-26 [Part1] Examines Trends in 14 Religious Factors over 20 Years (1991 to 2011)
Barna Group 2011-07-27 [Part2] Describes Religious Changes Among Busters, Boomers, and Elders Since 1991
Barna Group 2011-09-28 Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church
Barna Group 2011-11-16 Five Myths about Young Adult Church Dropouts
Barna Group 2012-08-12 Christian Women Today – Parts 1 - 4
Barna Group 2013-05-09 Three Spiritual Journeys of Millennials
Barna Group 2013-09-17 Reasons Millennials Stay Connected to Church
Barna Group 2012-01-09 What People Experience in Churches
Beaty, Katelyn 2009-10 Lost In Transition. Christianity Today
Bellah, Robert 1986-02-20 Individualism & Commitment In American Life. Lecture, University of California
Chong, Shiao 2013-01-28 Relationship, Religion Or Both? Christian Courier
Coggins, Jim 2012-09-17 Why Canadian young people are leaving the church. Canadian Christianity
Dyck, Drew 2011-11-19 The Leavers – Young Doubters Exit The Church. Christianity Today
Evens, Rachel Held 2013 Why millennials are leaving the church. CNN Belief Blog
Greusel, David 2013-11-12 Yearning for community - or not. Think Christian
Kim, Steve Hemorrhaging Faith / A Brief Synopsis. Apologetics Canada
Kwon, Lillian 2011-04-22 Survey Reveals Decade – Long 'Erosion' of Traditional US Congregations - Hartford Institute
PEW 2010-02 Religion Among Millennials
PEW 2010-09-28 Religious Knowledge – Full Report
PEW 2011-03-09 For Millennials Parenthood Trumps Marriage
PEW 2011-12-14 Barely Half of U.S. Adults Are Married – A Record Low
PEW 2013-03-18 Decline Of Institutional Religion
PEW 2013-03 Lugo, Luis – The Decline Of Institutional Religion & Implications For American Civil Life
PEW 2013-06-27Canada’s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project
Pimblott, Kerry 2012-11-09 The Election and Why Millennials are Leaving the Church Margins. Blog marginalife
Postma, Gayla 2007-08 Where Did Our Young Adults Go – The Banner
Reimer, Sam Demographic Look At Evangelical Congregations 2010-08. EFC Church & Faith Trends
Roozen, David 2011 Decade Of Change In American Congregations 2000-2010 Faith Communities Today
Roozen, David 2013-12-03 Negative Numbers – The decline Narrative Reaches Evangelicals - The Christian Century
Smith, Christian 2005 Portraits Of Protestant Teens. National Study on Youth & Religion
Smith, Christian 2007-11&12 Getting a Life: The challenge of emerging adulthood. Books & Culture
Smith, Christian 2008 Religion & Spirituality On The Path Through Adolescence. National Study on Youth & Religion
State Of The Canadian Church 2008 Canadian Christianity
Thiessen, Joel 2010-12 Churches Are Not Necessarily The Problem. EFC Church & Faith Trends.pdf
Van Loon, Michelle 2013-08-08 Who Raised These Millennials Anyway? | Her.meneutics / Christianity Today
You are right about trends globally in the North and South, though I wonder if it is not more helpful to stand outside the church box if we are called to evangelize and disciple people to the Lord?
Does the observation "Complacency, apathy, lack of passion, lukewarmness, lack of trial and testing, lack of real committment, and affluence have all combined to reduce the desire of many for a God who saves and rules. The thorns and thistles of the world are reducing the yield of the Word sown" really capture the socio-cultural worldview we find ourselves living along side. Also, do the people living within this worldview really understand us when we talk this way?
David Roozen in his research article below might take issue with the MCA numbers, though he does indicate the Pentecostal/Holiness churches are holding their own.
Roozen, David 2013-12-03 "Negative Numbers – The decline Narrative Reaches Evangelicals" The Christian Century
We've grown up with the technology in some way or other, even myself at 65. In 1980 I walked into the workplace to a computer on my desk top and have watched things evolve as a librarian on the frontlines, as well as, initiating the roll out of social media on a corporate level.
Sometimes I feel the "world" possibly gets it right. I also have reservations about the insertion of social media into the communal worship/preaching process.
When you walk into the concert hall, movie theatre, board room, council room, staff meeting, etc. people are required to turn their devices off and engage with heart and mind on the task at hand.
We may need social media, but I'm not sure God does. Since worship is "communal" and not a lecture, tweeting, etc. to interact with the sermon is probably distracting to both the pastor and the body of Christ.
Posted in: Pensions for Pastors Serving churches and Pastors Employed by CRCNA H.O.
My apologies for becoming inarticulate in my last two sentences in the previous post.
The second last sentence should have read "...putting them aside and adding the multipled savings to the CRCNA Pension, CPP/OAS, and/or Social Security payments on retirement."
On another matter, one needs to consider the scope of responsibility and span of control of the position when determining compensation. Making an assessment on pension payment allocation solely on job title is not helpful.
Posted in: How many churches no longer take special offerings?
Wendy, as read the comments I'm wondering whether the question being asked needs some clarification:
1. Do you mean by special collections.... Those collections historically identified as second collections in contrast to collections for the church budget; and
2. When individuals speak of the church budget... Are ministry shares still built into the congregational budget or have they been assigned as a special collection.
3. As a matter of personal interest... Is it still part of the liturgy to have the deacons bring these gifts forward to the Lord in the worship service in prayer?
Posted in: Diakonia — We've Passed This Way Before
If the following agencies are part of the agenda of Synod:
Disability Concerns, Office of Social Justice, Centre for Public Dialogue (Canada), Race Relations, Safe Church, ServiceLink, World Renew/CRWRC
they would also seem to be core to the diaconal mandate and ministry.
Posted in: How many churches no longer take special offerings?
We have one collection, a cause selected by the deacons. The collection for the budget is received either at a box at the entrance to the sanctuary, automated deposit, or in the budget envelope during the collection for the deacon selected cause.
Posted in: Permission for Photo Use on a Church Web Site
Kimberly provides a good link. Best to check with appropriate state or provincial legislation in the area of Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy legislation. Signed consent forms by adults and guardians should be standard practice.
Posted in: What Counts?
Where is it possible to get a copy of this report on which these blogs are based?
Posted in: When Churches Lose Members
How does this move us forward as the body of Christ in understanding those who we were to disciple and now are strangers to the flock, and the alien who resides among us for whom Christ called us to the great commission?
Posted in: When Churches Lose Members
If we always disagree with each other and the typical "protestant" response is schismatic, i.e. to leave, who will be left to have a conversation with let alone engage in commual worship? When we will come to grips with building bridges between differences, assuming we all belong to the body of Christ." 1 Corinthians 12: 12 – 27
Is it possible to still bridge differences on stewardship and gender, etc. or have we as Christ bearers unconsciously imbided too deeply at well of post-modern individualism that we have walled ourselves into gated communities.
How we engage with those who are troubled by their experience of church, as reported by Barna and Christianity Today:
Isolationism. One-fourth of 18- to 29-year-olds say church demonizes everything outside church, including the music, movies, culture, and technology that define their generation.
Shallowness. One-third call church boring, about one-fourth say faith is irrelevant and Bible teaching is unclear. One-fifth say God is absent from their church experience.
Anti-science. Up to one-third say the church is out of step on scientific developments and debate.
Sex. The church is perceived as simplistic and judgmental. For a fifth or more, a "just say no" philosophy is insufficient in a techno-porno world. Young Christian singles are as sexually active as their non-churched friends, and many say they feel judged.
Exclusivity. Three in 10 young people feel the church is too exclusive in this pluralistic and multi-cultural age. And the same number feel forced to choose between their faith and their friends.
Doubters. The church is not a safe place to express doubts say over one-third of young people, and one-fourth have serious doubts they'd like to discuss.
What have we missed in both discipleship and the great commission?
Posted in: When Churches Lose Members
This is not just a CRCNA issue, but a North America wide phenomena that is sweeping through ALL churches and has been documented since at least 2005 in research studies.
Looking at the numbers from the perspective of families is problematic when individuals who use to get married in their 20's today get married in their 30's, if at all. Moreover, those families also have fewer children today. My own research indicates that Yearbook membership numbers are out by approximately 25% - 30%, quite apart from the yearly drop in membership numbers.
Though the work of SPACT is helpful, I feel as if we are a community "inside a box" looking out, self referencing our analysis without really coming to grips with the socio-cultural changes occurring around us.
Individuals are disaffiliating from participation in institutional, community, and neighbourhood life. Though they may have personal reasons, there are broader philosophical changes afoot that consciously or unconsciously affect those decisions. Matters of the "common good" have been fractured into privatized relativistic worldviews making consensus in civic life ever more difficult.
Below are some references to articles on why "churches are losing members..."
Angus Reid 2013-12 Poll – Christmas – Religion
Barna Group 2003-09-24 Twenty somethings Struggle to Find Their Place in Christian Churches
Barna Group 2011-07-26 [Part1] Examines Trends in 14 Religious Factors over 20 Years (1991 to 2011)
Barna Group 2011-07-27 [Part2] Describes Religious Changes Among Busters, Boomers, and Elders Since 1991
Barna Group 2011-09-28 Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church
Barna Group 2011-11-16 Five Myths about Young Adult Church Dropouts
Barna Group 2012-08-12 Christian Women Today – Parts 1 - 4
Barna Group 2013-05-09 Three Spiritual Journeys of Millennials
Barna Group 2013-09-17 Reasons Millennials Stay Connected to Church
Barna Group 2012-01-09 What People Experience in Churches
Beaty, Katelyn 2009-10 Lost In Transition. Christianity Today
Bellah, Robert 1986-02-20 Individualism & Commitment In American Life. Lecture, University of California
Chong, Shiao 2013-01-28 Relationship, Religion Or Both? Christian Courier
Coggins, Jim 2012-09-17 Why Canadian young people are leaving the church. Canadian Christianity
Dyck, Drew 2011-11-19 The Leavers – Young Doubters Exit The Church. Christianity Today
Evens, Rachel Held 2013 Why millennials are leaving the church. CNN Belief Blog
Greusel, David 2013-11-12 Yearning for community - or not. Think Christian
Kim, Steve Hemorrhaging Faith / A Brief Synopsis. Apologetics Canada
Kwon, Lillian 2011-04-22 Survey Reveals Decade – Long 'Erosion' of Traditional US Congregations - Hartford Institute
PEW 2010-02 Religion Among Millennials
PEW 2010-09-28 Religious Knowledge – Full Report
PEW 2011-03-09 For Millennials Parenthood Trumps Marriage
PEW 2011-12-14 Barely Half of U.S. Adults Are Married – A Record Low
PEW 2013-03-18 Decline Of Institutional Religion
PEW 2013-03 Lugo, Luis – The Decline Of Institutional Religion & Implications For American Civil Life
PEW 2013-06-27Canada’s Changing Religious Landscape | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project
Pimblott, Kerry 2012-11-09 The Election and Why Millennials are Leaving the Church Margins. Blog marginalife
Postma, Gayla 2007-08 Where Did Our Young Adults Go – The Banner
Reimer, Sam Demographic Look At Evangelical Congregations 2010-08. EFC Church & Faith Trends
Roozen, David 2011 Decade Of Change In American Congregations 2000-2010 Faith Communities Today
Roozen, David 2013-12-03 Negative Numbers – The decline Narrative Reaches Evangelicals - The Christian Century
Smith, Christian 2005 Portraits Of Protestant Teens. National Study on Youth & Religion
Smith, Christian 2007-11&12 Getting a Life: The challenge of emerging adulthood. Books & Culture
Smith, Christian 2008 Religion & Spirituality On The Path Through Adolescence. National Study on Youth & Religion
State Of The Canadian Church 2008 Canadian Christianity
Thiessen, Joel 2010-12 Churches Are Not Necessarily The Problem. EFC Church & Faith Trends.pdf
Van Loon, Michelle 2013-08-08 Who Raised These Millennials Anyway? | Her.meneutics / Christianity Today
Posted in: When Churches Lose Members
Hi John...
You are right about trends globally in the North and South, though I wonder if it is not more helpful to stand outside the church box if we are called to evangelize and disciple people to the Lord?
Does the observation "Complacency, apathy, lack of passion, lukewarmness, lack of trial and testing, lack of real committment, and affluence have all combined to reduce the desire of many for a God who saves and rules. The thorns and thistles of the world are reducing the yield of the Word sown" really capture the socio-cultural worldview we find ourselves living along side. Also, do the people living within this worldview really understand us when we talk this way?
David Roozen in his research article below might take issue with the MCA numbers, though he does indicate the Pentecostal/Holiness churches are holding their own.
Roozen, David 2013-12-03 "Negative Numbers – The decline Narrative Reaches Evangelicals" The Christian Century
Posted in: The Holy Spirit and the Sermon – A Friendly Reminder For Those Who Preach
The use of the term blasphemy in the article seems odd... loading it with some new meaning??
Posted in: #helphimjesus
We've grown up with the technology in some way or other, even myself at 65. In 1980 I walked into the workplace to a computer on my desk top and have watched things evolve as a librarian on the frontlines, as well as, initiating the roll out of social media on a corporate level.
Sometimes I feel the "world" possibly gets it right. I also have reservations about the insertion of social media into the communal worship/preaching process.
When you walk into the concert hall, movie theatre, board room, council room, staff meeting, etc. people are required to turn their devices off and engage with heart and mind on the task at hand.
We may need social media, but I'm not sure God does. Since worship is "communal" and not a lecture, tweeting, etc. to interact with the sermon is probably distracting to both the pastor and the body of Christ.