Henry De Moor; Thank you so much for your very quick response! Your comments are helpful in that you describe in detail the exact structure that we had more than 5 years ago (when I last served on our Church Council)!
However, I gather from your response that you are in essence telling us that our current structure appears not to conform completely to Article 35 of the Church Order. I think we will need to review our situation again... but we are open to additional suggestions as, (unless we are unique in this regard) this must be an issue being faced by other large churches as well.
While your point about disenfranchised Elders and Deacons is a very valid one, there is also the other side of the coin where you can have Elders and/or Deacons who feel that attending additional meetings to deal with issues that are not of a 'spiritual' nature is not something that they can get very excited about and some may have no problem expressing their views in that regard!
Having said that, I do find a little nugget in your comment about communication... and specifically the available technology such as e-mail. There may be a way to involve the 'Pastoral' members of Council (notice that I didn't draw a line through that one!) so that having (and attending) additional meetings can be minimized to deal only with those issues raised by 'Pastoral' Elders and Deacons as requiring additional discussion, or those issues that require the subsequent approval of the congregation as a whole.
Mike, Thank you for your comments. They are helpful! It is always interesting to have additional input from other interested parties, particularly when ideas are shared! It can make for long meetings when done in a meeting format but, I just found this forum yesterday, and already I can truly say I love it! :)
If I read Article 30 of the Church Order (below) correctly, then the reference to 'church members' would allow any member to do 'an end run' around the council to request Classis to make a church visit. If you have a copy of the Church Order then you will note that a member will also need to abide by the supplemental 'Procedural Rules' as they are laid out in the Church Order.
""Article 30 a. Assemblies and church members may appeal to the assembly next in order if they believe that injustice has been done or that a decision conflicts with the Word of God or the Church Order. Appellants shall observe all ecclesiastical regulations regarding the manner and time of appeal. b. Synod may establish rights for other appeals and adopt rules for processing them. c. If invoked, the Judicial Code shall apply to the processing of written charges, unless the assembly to which the charges are submitted has dealt with and ruled definitively on substantially similar appeals in a manner pursuant to the provisions of Article 30-a. —Cf. Supplement, Article 30-a through -c""
OK.. so let me be the devil's advocate here and put in my $0.02 cents worth. So..., if I understand Henry DeMoor's response correctly, then a 'rogue' pastor who convinces a small 'rogue' council to deviate from the requirements of the Church Order (which requires ELECTED elders AND deacons) is free to do whatever they decide with no 'legal' repercussions or remedy! That could result in divisions within the congregation with no 'legal' way of resolving issues that might arise from such decisions. (By the way.. our Church By-law does provide for elected office bearers.)
Henry DeMoor.. please tell me that there IS an avenue available to achieve an amicable solution before such a situation goes beyond being repairable!
Posted in: We Are a Large CRC Congregation. This Means That?
Henry De Moor; Thank you so much for your very quick response! Your comments are helpful in that you describe in detail the exact structure that we had more than 5 years ago (when I last served on our Church Council)!
However, I gather from your response that you are in essence telling us that our current structure appears not to conform completely to Article 35 of the Church Order. I think we will need to review our situation again... but we are open to additional suggestions as, (unless we are unique in this regard) this must be an issue being faced by other large churches as well.
While your point about disenfranchised Elders and Deacons is a very valid one, there is also the other side of the coin where you can have Elders and/or Deacons who feel that attending additional meetings to deal with issues that are not of a 'spiritual' nature is not something that they can get very excited about and some may have no problem expressing their views in that regard!
Having said that, I do find a little nugget in your comment about communication... and specifically the available technology such as e-mail. There may be a way to involve the 'Pastoral' members of Council (notice that I didn't draw a line through that one!) so that having (and attending) additional meetings can be minimized to deal only with those issues raised by 'Pastoral' Elders and Deacons as requiring additional discussion, or those issues that require the subsequent approval of the congregation as a whole.
Again... thank you for your insight!
Blessings,
H. Dekker
Posted in: We Are a Large CRC Congregation. This Means That?
Mike, Thank you for your comments. They are helpful! It is always interesting to have additional input from other interested parties, particularly when ideas are shared! It can make for long meetings when done in a meeting format but, I just found this forum yesterday, and already I can truly say I love it! :)
Posted in: We Are a Large CRC Congregation. This Means That?
If I read Article 30 of the Church Order (below) correctly, then the reference to 'church members' would allow any member to do 'an end run' around the council to request Classis to make a church visit. If you have a copy of the Church Order then you will note that a member will also need to abide by the supplemental 'Procedural Rules' as they are laid out in the Church Order.
""Article 30
a. Assemblies and church members may appeal to the assembly next in
order if they believe that injustice has been done or that a decision conflicts
with the Word of God or the Church Order. Appellants shall observe
all ecclesiastical regulations regarding the manner and time of appeal.
b. Synod may establish rights for other appeals and adopt rules for
processing
them.
c. If invoked, the Judicial Code shall apply to the processing of written
charges, unless the assembly to which the charges are submitted has dealt
with and ruled definitively on substantially similar appeals in a manner
pursuant to the provisions of Article 30-a.
—Cf. Supplement, Article 30-a through -c""
Posted in: We Are a Large CRC Congregation. This Means That?
OK.. so let me be the devil's advocate here and put in my $0.02 cents worth. So..., if I understand Henry DeMoor's response correctly, then a 'rogue' pastor who convinces a small 'rogue' council to deviate from the requirements of the Church Order (which requires ELECTED elders AND deacons) is free to do whatever they decide with no 'legal' repercussions or remedy! That could result in divisions within the congregation with no 'legal' way of resolving issues that might arise from such decisions. (By the way.. our Church By-law does provide for elected office bearers.)
Henry DeMoor.. please tell me that there IS an avenue available to achieve an amicable solution before such a situation goes beyond being repairable!