It doesn't work to use Paul to say matters of sexual immorality are "debatable matters" in which we should just agree to disagree when Paul specifically teaches the wickedness of sexual immorality, in full concurrence with the rest of scriptural witness.
The fact that Jesus is Lord is immutable, no matter the wickedness of man. But the apostles still taught very clearly that a life marked by being given over to sin is not the life of one saved unto eternal life. Yes, this matters. Paul said those whose life is defined and marked by unrepentant sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God. These are matters that bear on the gospel. Is not the mortification of the old self part and parcel to the gospel of salvation? Is new birth a birth unto the same practices of old? Is sanctification a mark of those who have been declared righteous?
Hermeneutics matters because if scripture is made to be putty in my hands based on my preferred approach, then I can (and will be inclined to) fashion the word in my image and to my liking. There is no end to the self-justification that can occur when the scripture is allowed to be handled carelessly. Will we ever have a perfect understanding or approach to scripture? Clearly not. But to act as if our approach to scripture does not matter is incoherent. Muslims have a hermeneutic when they read scripture as well. Does it matter that their hermeneutic differs from ours? It matters how we approach scripture because God's Word actually means something.
Hi Adam, I think you are probably both correct and incorrect. No doubt there have been cases of ostracization and indifference, if not at times outright cruelty. Where we as individuals and churches fail by turning our back on any struggling sinner, we ought rightly to repent and change. I don't think, however, that you are in a position to judge generally that Christians have not come alongside other Christians struggling with sexual temptation in this area. Just because you don't see a "movement", does not mean that this sort of discipleship and love is not happening day in and day out. Discipleship, friendship, and love don't rely on "movements".
It can also become very difficult to walk alongside someone when a section of the church and most of society continues to tell them that the discipleship and comfort we offer is in fact hate. Once that message is believed and internalized, the only message that is put out is that the church fails to accept, when the church may have tried mightily. The headlines often fail to honestly reflect truth.
There is no doubt that we can all make improvements in bearing each other's burdens, not just on this particular topic. But I think you are not well-positioned to make the sort of charge that you seek to leverage from Scripture that the CRC simply ties heavy burdens and does not lift a finger to move them. The burden that is there is first of all not tied or bound by the CRC, to the extent that the moral law in question is not a man-made law. Jesus was speaking of the laundry list of man-made minutiae that the Pharisees had added to the moral and ceremonial law. The burdens they tied were above and beyond what God had commanded. The CRC seeks to do no such thing. Also, in order to judge that no finger has been lifted to help those in need requires a much more omniscient knowledge of the many and varied people, congregations, pastors, and situations than I think you can claim to have.
A wise man once told me: "Every form is an art form, and every art form has a message." I don't know if that statement is attributable to someone other than him, but it matters me not.
I think there are dual dangers in the "church clothing" conversation: First, to assume (and act as if) clothing says/means nothing; and second, to assume (and act as if) clothing says/means everything.
The challenge for me, personally, has been to care much about how I approach worship (including clothing choices) without thinking I can quickly judge or reach conclusions about others based on how they dress.
I think it is the wrong approach to allow culture to dictate how we approach worship. So, I never concern myself that my attire will drive away a seeker. There is no compelling reason for me to believe that a church visitor who is loved by those he/she encounters will be scared by attire. They will, however, quite quickly pick up an attitude of dismissiveness or indifference based on appearance. If I had to chose between children who dressed to the nines but grew up to disdain others who did not, and children who demonstrated little concern for attire but poured themselves out in love for others, I'd chose the latter any day (in I Cor. 13 fashion). But, of course, we need not pretend that these are the only two choices. It was always my hope with my children that I could convey a sense of awe and honor in worship that would lead them to understand that it does matter how they approach worship, including clothing choices. At the same time, I hoped to instill a mentality that also was slow to judge others for different choices and quick to demonstrate the love of God despite appearances. I'm sure my own careless comments or actions have at times undercut my best intentions.
I think our churches can and should be places where we strive to be very intentional and honoring in how we approach God, while not succumbing to the temptation to give a honored place to those who present the best or judging with unrighteous judgment those who do not meet some standard of neatness or propriety.
To be "more authentic and more welcoming" to me has everything to do with the attitude of our hearts and how we approach people, and has little to nothing to do with attire. I see nothing "inauthentic" about a well-coiffed individual, unless they are projecting an air of "having it all together" while demonstrating a lack of love for others. I've also met plenty of poorly dressed people who were extremely unwelcoming. The old song says "They will know we are Christians by our love" (as does John 13:35).
It seems to me that this discussion is closely tied to the tension of immanence and transcendence. God's immanence leads us to a sincere and close relationship with a God for whom there is no pretense, no pretending. If we prize our clothes and outward presentation, we may miss real intimate communing with God. God's transcendence leads us to a proper sense of awe, creaturely unworthiness, and honor. If we feel like it is appropriate to approach God with no sense of propriety whatsoever, we do not honor his holiness. We know full well in other areas of life that simply showing up is not enough. We honor a wedding couple by wearing clothes appropriate for the celebration. We honor dignitaries by presenting ourselves with propriety. Scripture teaches us both that God is near, familiar, and intimate as well as God being high and lofty, worthy of great honor, and due only the best we have to offer.
I'm sympathetic to your financial dilemma I would encourage you not to "shake your fist at God", as it were, but rather look around for how God may yet provide for you. It seems to me that it would be entirely appropriate for you to speak with the deacons of your church concerning your dilemma, for they are God's ministers of mercy to you. They may be able to help with some combination of benevolent giving and budgeting help to provide for eventually retiring this burden completely. Oftentimes in the Christian life God does not intervene or provide in miraculous supernatural ways, but through very ordinary means such as the love and care of the body of Christ. May you be blessed in this way through your local church body, and may you again be encouraged in the loving provision of your Heavenly Father.
So, Roger, I hear you saying that the Christian message is foolishness to the secularist. Where have I heard that before? Oh, that's right:
I Corinthians 1:18-25 "For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[fn] to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
Stepping back from the individual congregational level a moment, would you say that it was helpful for denominational branding to drop any frontline mention of CR in the newly-named World Renew and Resonate? I would assume (perhaps incorrectly?) that your job would have placed you in position to have significant input into the renaming process. Can we really expect individual congregations to follow a different path than that which is modeled by the denomination?
Posted in: Turning the CRC Into an Lgbtq+ Ally
Andrew, I concur.
Posted in: Turning the CRC Into an Lgbtq+ Ally
It doesn't work to use Paul to say matters of sexual immorality are "debatable matters" in which we should just agree to disagree when Paul specifically teaches the wickedness of sexual immorality, in full concurrence with the rest of scriptural witness.
The fact that Jesus is Lord is immutable, no matter the wickedness of man. But the apostles still taught very clearly that a life marked by being given over to sin is not the life of one saved unto eternal life. Yes, this matters. Paul said those whose life is defined and marked by unrepentant sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God. These are matters that bear on the gospel. Is not the mortification of the old self part and parcel to the gospel of salvation? Is new birth a birth unto the same practices of old? Is sanctification a mark of those who have been declared righteous?
Hermeneutics matters because if scripture is made to be putty in my hands based on my preferred approach, then I can (and will be inclined to) fashion the word in my image and to my liking. There is no end to the self-justification that can occur when the scripture is allowed to be handled carelessly. Will we ever have a perfect understanding or approach to scripture? Clearly not. But to act as if our approach to scripture does not matter is incoherent. Muslims have a hermeneutic when they read scripture as well. Does it matter that their hermeneutic differs from ours? It matters how we approach scripture because God's Word actually means something.
Posted in: Turning the CRC Into an Lgbtq+ Ally
Hi Adam, I think you are probably both correct and incorrect. No doubt there have been cases of ostracization and indifference, if not at times outright cruelty. Where we as individuals and churches fail by turning our back on any struggling sinner, we ought rightly to repent and change. I don't think, however, that you are in a position to judge generally that Christians have not come alongside other Christians struggling with sexual temptation in this area. Just because you don't see a "movement", does not mean that this sort of discipleship and love is not happening day in and day out. Discipleship, friendship, and love don't rely on "movements".
It can also become very difficult to walk alongside someone when a section of the church and most of society continues to tell them that the discipleship and comfort we offer is in fact hate. Once that message is believed and internalized, the only message that is put out is that the church fails to accept, when the church may have tried mightily. The headlines often fail to honestly reflect truth.
There is no doubt that we can all make improvements in bearing each other's burdens, not just on this particular topic. But I think you are not well-positioned to make the sort of charge that you seek to leverage from Scripture that the CRC simply ties heavy burdens and does not lift a finger to move them. The burden that is there is first of all not tied or bound by the CRC, to the extent that the moral law in question is not a man-made law. Jesus was speaking of the laundry list of man-made minutiae that the Pharisees had added to the moral and ceremonial law. The burdens they tied were above and beyond what God had commanded. The CRC seeks to do no such thing. Also, in order to judge that no finger has been lifted to help those in need requires a much more omniscient knowledge of the many and varied people, congregations, pastors, and situations than I think you can claim to have.
Posted in: Overtures, Politics, & Justice
Dan,
Did you mean "ecclesiastical" instead of "ecumenical"?
Posted in: What Is the Unofficial Dress Code at Your Church? Does it Matter?
A wise man once told me: "Every form is an art form, and every art form has a message." I don't know if that statement is attributable to someone other than him, but it matters me not.
I think there are dual dangers in the "church clothing" conversation: First, to assume (and act as if) clothing says/means nothing; and second, to assume (and act as if) clothing says/means everything.
The challenge for me, personally, has been to care much about how I approach worship (including clothing choices) without thinking I can quickly judge or reach conclusions about others based on how they dress.
I think it is the wrong approach to allow culture to dictate how we approach worship. So, I never concern myself that my attire will drive away a seeker. There is no compelling reason for me to believe that a church visitor who is loved by those he/she encounters will be scared by attire. They will, however, quite quickly pick up an attitude of dismissiveness or indifference based on appearance. If I had to chose between children who dressed to the nines but grew up to disdain others who did not, and children who demonstrated little concern for attire but poured themselves out in love for others, I'd chose the latter any day (in I Cor. 13 fashion). But, of course, we need not pretend that these are the only two choices. It was always my hope with my children that I could convey a sense of awe and honor in worship that would lead them to understand that it does matter how they approach worship, including clothing choices. At the same time, I hoped to instill a mentality that also was slow to judge others for different choices and quick to demonstrate the love of God despite appearances. I'm sure my own careless comments or actions have at times undercut my best intentions.
I think our churches can and should be places where we strive to be very intentional and honoring in how we approach God, while not succumbing to the temptation to give a honored place to those who present the best or judging with unrighteous judgment those who do not meet some standard of neatness or propriety.
Posted in: What Is the Unofficial Dress Code at Your Church? Does it Matter?
To be "more authentic and more welcoming" to me has everything to do with the attitude of our hearts and how we approach people, and has little to nothing to do with attire. I see nothing "inauthentic" about a well-coiffed individual, unless they are projecting an air of "having it all together" while demonstrating a lack of love for others. I've also met plenty of poorly dressed people who were extremely unwelcoming. The old song says "They will know we are Christians by our love" (as does John 13:35).
Posted in: What Is the Unofficial Dress Code at Your Church? Does it Matter?
It seems to me that this discussion is closely tied to the tension of immanence and transcendence. God's immanence leads us to a sincere and close relationship with a God for whom there is no pretense, no pretending. If we prize our clothes and outward presentation, we may miss real intimate communing with God. God's transcendence leads us to a proper sense of awe, creaturely unworthiness, and honor. If we feel like it is appropriate to approach God with no sense of propriety whatsoever, we do not honor his holiness. We know full well in other areas of life that simply showing up is not enough. We honor a wedding couple by wearing clothes appropriate for the celebration. We honor dignitaries by presenting ourselves with propriety. Scripture teaches us both that God is near, familiar, and intimate as well as God being high and lofty, worthy of great honor, and due only the best we have to offer.
Posted in: Singleness and the Question of God's Goodness
Hi Michele,
I'm sympathetic to your financial dilemma I would encourage you not to "shake your fist at God", as it were, but rather look around for how God may yet provide for you. It seems to me that it would be entirely appropriate for you to speak with the deacons of your church concerning your dilemma, for they are God's ministers of mercy to you. They may be able to help with some combination of benevolent giving and budgeting help to provide for eventually retiring this burden completely. Oftentimes in the Christian life God does not intervene or provide in miraculous supernatural ways, but through very ordinary means such as the love and care of the body of Christ. May you be blessed in this way through your local church body, and may you again be encouraged in the loving provision of your Heavenly Father.
Posted in: Are Christians and Muslims Allies, Cobelligerents, Both or Neither?
So, Roger, I hear you saying that the Christian message is foolishness to the secularist. Where have I heard that before? Oh, that's right:
I Corinthians 1:18-25 "For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[fn] to save those who believe. For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men."
Roger that.
Posted in: Are Christians and Muslims Allies, Cobelligerents, Both or Neither?
Your disdain for God's Word saddens me. I hope someday that you too can come to know and trust God through his Word.
Posted in: Are Christians and Muslims Allies, Cobelligerents, Both or Neither?
Your questions and statements belie your claim that you do not disdain God's Word.
Posted in: Why Your Church Needs a Brand
Hi Kristen,
Stepping back from the individual congregational level a moment, would you say that it was helpful for denominational branding to drop any frontline mention of CR in the newly-named World Renew and Resonate? I would assume (perhaps incorrectly?) that your job would have placed you in position to have significant input into the renaming process. Can we really expect individual congregations to follow a different path than that which is modeled by the denomination?