Thanks, Kevin. You covered a lot, but seemed to assume I meant an official split of the CRC. I didn't mean that. There are plenty of other churches and denominations that already exist, who line up with your views on sexual immorality. I was asking why you don't join one of those?
About 10 years ago I joined the CRC because I personally hold to the teachings of the CRC. If, for some reason, I found new views (say, for example, I came to believe in universal salvation), then I would join a different church that already teaches that. I would not demand that the CRC start teaching universal salvation.
It's like someone who hates baseball, who becomes a little league coach, and then demands that the kids stop playing baseball.
As a father of 3 young boys (ages 10, 7, and 5) I have wondered what life would be like if one of them came up to me in their teenage years and said "Dad...I like other boys more than girls." It's a very real thing to me.
Thankfully, I know what I would do. I would be honest with them that I often find myself physically attracted to people that are "off limits" for me. And that at those times I need to fall at the feet of my Savior and ask him to help me resist the temptation to think or act on those sinful impulses. And that I need to ask the Holy Spirit to give me strength. I would tell my son to do the same.
Then I would tell my son that I love him, and that God loves him, and that he is a part of God's family, and that ALL members of God's family experience temptation. I would tell him that God's love is not an excuse to sin, but rather it is a weapon against sin.
And I would never, never demand that other believers make excuses for my son's temptations, or encourage them, or elevate them as being worthy of embracing rather than resisting.
Mr. Stephenson, your emphatic claim that you are not trying to influence the outcome reminds me of the saying "Me thinks you doth protest too much."
Those (like "All One Body") who have publicly stated they want to change the CRC's teaching on human sexuality have been very open and honest that their tactic is going to be to be to push the "love, love, love" narrative. So when employees of the CRCNA use church resources to echo a very similar sentiment, it is completely reasonable for people to be concerned.
As for the statement that "God loves you the way you are," that sentiment is not found in Scripture. A more accurate paraphrase would be "God loves you despite the way you are, and loves you enough to transform you."
Hi Steven, you were incorrect in assuming that I don't know any LGBTQ people who are heartbroken and struggle every day with their temptations. You were incorrect in assuming that because I still agree with the Scriptural guidelines on human sexuality, marriage, and gender, that I would be unwilling to help an injured person by the side of the road (I have literally and figuratively helped the injured person). I don't want to belabor this point, as I truly do love you as my neighbor.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you were "born in the CRC and have just as much right" as anyone else to stay here and demand the church change its teachings. In truth, we must be willing to admit when it is WE who have changed (not God's Word), and then have the courage to find others who believe the same way we do now. That's what I did when I joined the CRC 10 years ago.
If an issue is both fundamental and mutually exclusive (as is the case with God's holy design for marriage, human sexuality, and gender), then it is both destructive and untenable to stay together.
I appreciate those questions. I know it's conventional wisdom to think we should treat people according to whatever label they have (gay, straight, white, black, left, right).
But my life experience has been that it's best to simply treat everyone as a distinct, unique individual. Love every individual, no matter what. Encourage every individual to submit, in obedience, to God's Word. Treat every individual with enough respect to speak honestly to them, not pandering or pulling punches because they might get "offended."
When you treat everyone as an individual, rather than as a member of some collectivist sub-group, then you're treating them the way God treats them.
Hi Nick. Our CRC Church Order literally states that delegates to Synod "represent" the churches in their Classis.
Someone at our Classis meeting (Classis Georgetown) a few weeks ago expressed the same opinion you did. I read, word for word, from our Church Order to show otherwise.
Article 45 "The Synod" states "Synod is the assembly representing the churches of all the classes."
Galen, you seem to be trying to split the meaning here, and argue that while Synod as a whole body represents the churches, the individual delegates do not represent anyone. If that is your assertion, so be it. Such an interpretation seems silly. It would be like saying that Congress represents the States, but individual members of Congress do not represent anyone. Or that attendees at an awards ceremony (like the Oscars) represent the collective body of work of whatever is being considered for awards (like all movies made), but that the individual attendees (like the actors and producers) don't represent any specific work.
There is a mistaken idea floating around that a representative body cannot also be deliberative, that somehow those two things are mutually-exclusive. That is obviously not correct. An assembly like Synod is both representative of the churches, and deliberative in nature.
I think the reason people put forth this false narrative is that they are hoping to sway individual delegates to "go rogue" if you will, and act far more revisionist and Progressive than their constituent churches would like them to.
What's not clear to me is how the CRC can be "bound by the confessions" as you say, but not bound by the words in the confessions. How do you explain that?
If I hire you to mow my lawn, and I write a contract stating "Henry will mow my lawn every week during the summer," and you sign the contract, would it make sense for you to come back later and try to mow my deck? Or my living room? Or my vegetable garden? Because you say "We don't really know what the word 'lawn' means."
The Heidelberg catechism is clear that lying is a sin (Q & A 112). But it says nothing specifically about cheating on our taxes. So if a local church council decides to cheat on the church's payroll taxes, and also hold seminars at the church about how people can cheat on their taxes...well, Synod hasn't specifically said cheating on our taxes is a violation of our Confessions, so I guess there's nothing anybody could do about that. Right?
Please explain how we can remain faithful to the Confessions and to Scripture, while ignoring the words in the Confessions and Scripture, and pretending the words don't mean what they clearly mean?
Indeed. The best way to respond directly to Henry's "challenge" is to reject the premise of his challenge. His premise is that the CRC may not discipline anyone for promoting sinfulness, unless Synod has specifically named that particular sub-category of sin as worthy of church discipline. And/or that any sin for which Synod has issued "pastoral advice" is now off the table as one which deserves disciplinary action. As if pastoral advice and confessional status are somehow mutually exclusive, de facto.
Again, Henry admits that Scripture is clear...gay sex is part of the general category of sexual immorality. He even admits that the historical Church has always viewed it that way.
But he says the CRC in 2020 may not claim it as a confessional stance because no Synod has specifically itemized gay sex as part of sexual immorality.
But where is the premise supported that Synod must specifically itemize each sub-category of broader sins in order for confessional status to flow from the broader category to the more specific instances?
I am currently serving as a deacon at my local CRC church. Let's say I start sharing my idea that God is going to save ALL human beings, even those who deny Christ. I bring it up at Council meetings. I promote it during my deacon visits. I post all kinds of things on social media about it.
Are you saying I should not expect or accept any discipline from my fellow office-bearers for that?
Posted in: Talking About Human Sexuality With Love
Thanks, Kevin. You covered a lot, but seemed to assume I meant an official split of the CRC. I didn't mean that. There are plenty of other churches and denominations that already exist, who line up with your views on sexual immorality. I was asking why you don't join one of those?
About 10 years ago I joined the CRC because I personally hold to the teachings of the CRC. If, for some reason, I found new views (say, for example, I came to believe in universal salvation), then I would join a different church that already teaches that. I would not demand that the CRC start teaching universal salvation.
It's like someone who hates baseball, who becomes a little league coach, and then demands that the kids stop playing baseball.
Posted in: I Wonder
As a father of 3 young boys (ages 10, 7, and 5) I have wondered what life would be like if one of them came up to me in their teenage years and said "Dad...I like other boys more than girls." It's a very real thing to me.
Thankfully, I know what I would do. I would be honest with them that I often find myself physically attracted to people that are "off limits" for me. And that at those times I need to fall at the feet of my Savior and ask him to help me resist the temptation to think or act on those sinful impulses. And that I need to ask the Holy Spirit to give me strength. I would tell my son to do the same.
Then I would tell my son that I love him, and that God loves him, and that he is a part of God's family, and that ALL members of God's family experience temptation. I would tell him that God's love is not an excuse to sin, but rather it is a weapon against sin.
And I would never, never demand that other believers make excuses for my son's temptations, or encourage them, or elevate them as being worthy of embracing rather than resisting.
Posted in: Talking About Human Sexuality With Love
Mr. Stephenson, your emphatic claim that you are not trying to influence the outcome reminds me of the saying "Me thinks you doth protest too much."
Those (like "All One Body") who have publicly stated they want to change the CRC's teaching on human sexuality have been very open and honest that their tactic is going to be to be to push the "love, love, love" narrative. So when employees of the CRCNA use church resources to echo a very similar sentiment, it is completely reasonable for people to be concerned.
As for the statement that "God loves you the way you are," that sentiment is not found in Scripture. A more accurate paraphrase would be "God loves you despite the way you are, and loves you enough to transform you."
Would you agree?
Posted in: Talking About Human Sexuality With Love
Hi Steven, you were incorrect in assuming that I don't know any LGBTQ people who are heartbroken and struggle every day with their temptations. You were incorrect in assuming that because I still agree with the Scriptural guidelines on human sexuality, marriage, and gender, that I would be unwilling to help an injured person by the side of the road (I have literally and figuratively helped the injured person). I don't want to belabor this point, as I truly do love you as my neighbor.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you were "born in the CRC and have just as much right" as anyone else to stay here and demand the church change its teachings. In truth, we must be willing to admit when it is WE who have changed (not God's Word), and then have the courage to find others who believe the same way we do now. That's what I did when I joined the CRC 10 years ago.
Posted in: Talking About Human Sexuality With Love
If an issue is both fundamental and mutually exclusive (as is the case with God's holy design for marriage, human sexuality, and gender), then it is both destructive and untenable to stay together.
Posted in: Talking About Human Sexuality With Love
I appreciate those questions. I know it's conventional wisdom to think we should treat people according to whatever label they have (gay, straight, white, black, left, right).
But my life experience has been that it's best to simply treat everyone as a distinct, unique individual. Love every individual, no matter what. Encourage every individual to submit, in obedience, to God's Word. Treat every individual with enough respect to speak honestly to them, not pandering or pulling punches because they might get "offended."
When you treat everyone as an individual, rather than as a member of some collectivist sub-group, then you're treating them the way God treats them.
And when we do that, the fruit will follow.
Posted in: Talking About Human Sexuality With Love
Hi Nick. Our CRC Church Order literally states that delegates to Synod "represent" the churches in their Classis.
Someone at our Classis meeting (Classis Georgetown) a few weeks ago expressed the same opinion you did. I read, word for word, from our Church Order to show otherwise.
Posted in: Talking About Human Sexuality With Love
Article 45 "The Synod" states "Synod is the assembly representing the churches of all the classes."
Galen, you seem to be trying to split the meaning here, and argue that while Synod as a whole body represents the churches, the individual delegates do not represent anyone. If that is your assertion, so be it. Such an interpretation seems silly. It would be like saying that Congress represents the States, but individual members of Congress do not represent anyone. Or that attendees at an awards ceremony (like the Oscars) represent the collective body of work of whatever is being considered for awards (like all movies made), but that the individual attendees (like the actors and producers) don't represent any specific work.
There is a mistaken idea floating around that a representative body cannot also be deliberative, that somehow those two things are mutually-exclusive. That is obviously not correct. An assembly like Synod is both representative of the churches, and deliberative in nature.
I think the reason people put forth this false narrative is that they are hoping to sway individual delegates to "go rogue" if you will, and act far more revisionist and Progressive than their constituent churches would like them to.
Posted in: Do Not Worry About Synod
Good words, and good advice! Thank you, Sean.
Posted in: Status Confessionis
What's not clear to me is how the CRC can be "bound by the confessions" as you say, but not bound by the words in the confessions. How do you explain that?
If I hire you to mow my lawn, and I write a contract stating "Henry will mow my lawn every week during the summer," and you sign the contract, would it make sense for you to come back later and try to mow my deck? Or my living room? Or my vegetable garden? Because you say "We don't really know what the word 'lawn' means."
The Heidelberg catechism is clear that lying is a sin (Q & A 112). But it says nothing specifically about cheating on our taxes. So if a local church council decides to cheat on the church's payroll taxes, and also hold seminars at the church about how people can cheat on their taxes...well, Synod hasn't specifically said cheating on our taxes is a violation of our Confessions, so I guess there's nothing anybody could do about that. Right?
Please explain how we can remain faithful to the Confessions and to Scripture, while ignoring the words in the Confessions and Scripture, and pretending the words don't mean what they clearly mean?
Posted in: Status Confessionis
Indeed. The best way to respond directly to Henry's "challenge" is to reject the premise of his challenge. His premise is that the CRC may not discipline anyone for promoting sinfulness, unless Synod has specifically named that particular sub-category of sin as worthy of church discipline. And/or that any sin for which Synod has issued "pastoral advice" is now off the table as one which deserves disciplinary action. As if pastoral advice and confessional status are somehow mutually exclusive, de facto.
Again, Henry admits that Scripture is clear...gay sex is part of the general category of sexual immorality. He even admits that the historical Church has always viewed it that way.
But he says the CRC in 2020 may not claim it as a confessional stance because no Synod has specifically itemized gay sex as part of sexual immorality.
But where is the premise supported that Synod must specifically itemize each sub-category of broader sins in order for confessional status to flow from the broader category to the more specific instances?
Posted in: Status Confessionis
I am currently serving as a deacon at my local CRC church. Let's say I start sharing my idea that God is going to save ALL human beings, even those who deny Christ. I bring it up at Council meetings. I promote it during my deacon visits. I post all kinds of things on social media about it.
Are you saying I should not expect or accept any discipline from my fellow office-bearers for that?