Wendy Hammond

With regard to not responding to Doug's comments, it really doesn't make sense to try to have a "discussion" in an online forum. We have spoken in person (a few years ago though, eh?) These are complex issues that don't lend themselves to sound bites. 

I supervise one of the OSJ staff that is a shared World Renew / OSJ position, and I have not seen this multiplication of staff of which you speak. There are a number of interns, fellows, etc. but the overall budget has tightened considerably. 

I agree that the model needs to be re-imagined. However, I disagree that the denominational office is supplanting the ministry of the local church. I'm also wondering if you would prefer that there not be a plan at all? Or is it just calling it a ministry plan that bothers you? When I talk to pastors about their local and global ministry, they don't say "well, I'd love to do more, but we don't have any budget because we are paying our ministry shares." And they would be free to tell me that, because the organization for which I work does not receive any ministry shares.

I'm really curious to see the next installment in this series. Can't wait to read it Sam!

I agree that the local church is where ministry is supposed to happen. But are not all Christians supposed to do ministry? Therefore wouldn't it follow that the denominational office is also the church?

It's interesting that you say the administrators should help with ministry plans, that's what I thought they did! Isn't that what home missions does? Healthy church? SPE and SCE?

That said, I do believe there needs to be structural and cultural change. On the part of administration yes, but also on the part of churches. Membership numbers have declined in most denominations, it's not unique to the CRC. We need to find the growing churches in our denomination and find out what they are doing. We need to listen to our church planters when they tell us that things need to be different. We need to listen to our youth (and by youth I mean 20 somethings, not almost 40 somethings like me who are sadly called in to some of the denominational meetings to represent the "youth" voice!) And by listening, I don't mean sending out more surveys. I'm not sure what it is about the CRC that is so paper-driven. In some of the task forces I've been on I suggest that we ask churches and classes what they want, and I'm told that churches are sick of filling out surveys and that we've already surveyed them. This not just a denominational building thing. I work with churches and often ask what makes their church unique, what skills has God gifted them with, and I'm asked if I have a survey they can use to find out. 

How do we have these conversations?

Aside from being a huge breach of donor confidentiality, I think this is a rabbit trail. Most donors give to several causes. Inside and outside of the church. And they could give more. Seriously, how often do we see a disaster and a generous outpouring? If your church has a strong vision and community, the dollars will follow.

This is why online "conversations" are so difficult. Speaking past each other, not being able to clarify in real time.

- is ministry really attached to the congregation / church? What about being involved in local Christian ministries that aren't attached to a church?

- I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at when you talk about competition for resources. I don't think they are as scarce as you seem to think they are. Regardless, such a report does not exist. The denominational database is extremely outdated and such a report would be flawed at best. 

Eric, you are correct that if you go back that far it is a multiplication. I do think that you need to take into account that the "staff" listed includes fellows and part timers and interns. 

When I refer to some discussions not being appropriate for an online format, I am referring to the big picture things like "should we get rid of OSJ." Clearly we are not going to be able to address that in a forum like this. I did not mean it to be derogatory, just a matter of fact. Someone had questioned why no one from the denomination responds to Doug's comments on various articles throughout the Banner, Network, etc. 

as long as it is password protected I'm not sure why it would be unwise or unsafe. You could also require registration depending on what platform you use.