Elizabeth Guillaume-Koene

Peter - that would be great.  I think it would be so helpful to start having these types of conversations at the committee meetings.  Will you bring copies or do you want me to?

Even though many Classes employ multiple people it becomes difficult to have a central committee to look after these positions. The committee that the employee reports to is most often most equipped to do evaluations etc. but then communicating the work that has been done to the rest of the Classis becomes a challenge. Would a personnel committee help with this or just add another layer of bureaucracy especially for campus ministers and church planters who already extensively report to a committee and Home Missions?

Thanks for sharing this Dutch.  I'd love to hear more about how the chairman set it up and how it all worked - maybe a topic for the Classis page!  Is this going to become a regular thing for you in Classis Yellowstone?

I agree with Ken that the word "censure" has negative conotations and that really isn't a good way to go about ending a meeting now.  I do think feedback and assessment of a classis and synod is important and written feedback forms are not usually a good way to go about getting the feedback as most people do not fill them out (especially after a long day) and so the feedback is rather limited. 

I think a better way of getting this feedback would be to use small group settings where good questions are asked and everyone gets a chance to respond (perhaps by going around the circle) with someone facilitating and recording in each group.  Questions like: What did you enjoy about the day?  What was the most difficult part of the day for you?  What do you plan on sharing with your council and congregation when you report on this meeting?  If after the small groups meet perhaps there should be a few minutes for each group to share something that they talked about.  These types of questions and a chance to share will hopefully bring out any issues that need to be addressed and help those planning the next classis meetiing.

I do not think it would be particularly helpful for this to be made into a church order item - it then becomes one more thing to check off the list of things to do for the day.  Perhaps classes can try this out and then share how it went on the Classis Network site and so it becomes a "best practice" and others want to try it out too.  Sometimes for things to be most effective they need to come from a group and work its way through the organization rather than from the organization down to the groups.

This idea came to me with some reflecting on Restorative Practices - I'll be blogging on that later today on the Classis Network.  Take a look later today and reflect there too.

I think you are right in theory - but I'm not so sure it works that well in practice.  Do people really feel comfortable saying something like: "Your comment really cut me..." in a large group setting?  Perhaps there are a few people who might, who are comfortable in speaking in larger groups, but I'm not sure that most of those attending a classis meeting really do.  I've been in council meetings where mutual censure is done and never has anything ever been brought up - mostly the elders and deacons look down at their hands or their agendas and mumble, "I have nothing."  It could be that they really have nothing but I have always wondered if the practice is really accomplishing what it is meant to.  I wonder if it might be easier for most people to say what they are feeling if they are asked, in a more informal setting, well crafted questions in an atmosphere of safety, where people are expected to listen to each other.  

Thanks for your question and comments Dutchoven.  Last week I began my new position with The Network as Classis Coach.  This position has been vaccant for over three years now so there are a lot of pieces to pick up and get working on.  One of them is the Classis Prayer Coordinators.  The information on the Classis Renewal Website about Classis Prayer Calendars is still relevant and is still used by some Classis Prayer Coordinators.  One of my tasks is to update the website and so hopefully it won't be like this for long.  If the person you are encouraging to take up the task would like to talk to someone about this role I'd be happy to assist.  As well as being the new Classis Coach I am also a Classis Prayer Coordinator for Classis Toronto.  Hope this helps in your search.  Elizabeth.

Perhaps this would be good but I wouldn't want it to replace possible conversations between those at the Classis level.

The articles on the Belhar Confession written by Shiao Chong and John Bolt can be found on-line at: www.classistoronto.org/belhar.htm

About the Belhar being open to abuse - the Bible has been abused since it was written, that does not stop us from reading and teaching the truths found in its pages. The confessions have also been abused in the Christian church. People have misread and misapplied what we hold so dear to our faith. Why should we then allow the fear of abuse stop us from adopting the Belhar and using this document to teach and inform us about living out our faith?

The Belhar is not a perfect document. There are some points where we would probably like to change things but to be effective I don't think that it needs to be perfect. I don't think that the other confessions are perfect either - they are human inventions and affected by the fall. These documents can still direct and inform us and are important to us as we live out our faith.

Classis Toronto decided not to post agendas and minutes on-line for privacy reasons (we started doing this and then took them off a few years later). We still do most things via email - all agendas and minutes are sent via email, rarely do any get sent with paper any more. On the website we have a note that directs people to email the stated clerk if they would like an agenda or minutes but there is great resistance to having them accessible by anyone on-line. I have thought about having a log-in type situation where people can log-in and then find the documents on-line but with so many elders and deacons and pastors who rotate every year it seems a little too cumbersome. Privacy vs. ease of access always seems to be a balancing act.

What three documents are you referring to?

As a leader in a classis I do long for more lay participation but not just in classical committees.  In Classis Toronto we do have a lot of lay participation in our committees - we try to have at least one pastor on every team and try not to have more than two or three.  I find that our teams for the most part work well together and really further the ministries of classis.  However, what we often struggle with is how to get this lay participation to translate to the classis meetings themselves.  Most of the lay members of our teams have never been to a classis meeting and many don't want to go because it seems to be a business meeting rather than one that furthers ministry.  But we need more lay people to get involved at that level as well.

Most classes send one pastor delegate and one elder delegate to the meetings (some classes are now including a deacon delegate as well) from the local church council.  These are the people who have the right to speak to what is happening at the meeting and vote on motions.  Each classis meeting is an open session which means that anyone can come and listen to what is going on. 

Often it is the pastors who speak most at the meetings - they do have the advantage of coming to every classis meeting while elders usually rotate, so pastors often feel more comfortable in the situation.  So my challenge as a classis leader is to explore how we can encourage more lay participation and leadership in the meetings themselves.