The lack of evidence of turbulence or rapid flow of water would not mean that mud could not be deposited rapidly (within a day or two). If mud enters the surface of a relatively deep water body which then becomes murky with silt and clay particles, these particles could begin to deposit fairly quickly without leaving evidence of turbulence. It depends on how deep the water is. With shallow water one would expect to see some horizontal differentiation, but not necessarily with deeper water over a relatively flat surface.
With replenishment of the mud particles, the deposition of these layers could reoccur fairly frequently in a relatively short period of time.
The other thing that one would expect to see in soil formations laid down over long periods of time, is evidence of erosion, and evidence of plant growth (roots, root channels). Erosion would tend to break up sediment layers, leaving very few continuities. Plant growth would distort and mix sediment layers, leaving organic residues between layers as well as mixed within layers. Calculations of organic matter production over a thousand years, or over a million years, would give some clue as to how much material ought to be there. If these things are not evident, then it would be more reasonable to suppose that neither erosion nor plant growth occurred between layers, which would in most cases lead to the conclusion that there was not time for these things to happen.
Norman, you do not indicate whether the Presbyterian church was PCUSA or PCA. I have heard of big differences between them. That aside, calling a church vacant, when presumably there are several elders likely present, and there is a congregation present, seems presumptuous. Precisecly because the church is not vacant, but merely has a pastoral vacancy, is why each church needs to determine its own need for a counselor or advisor. The assumption that the only relationship or significance is between a pastor and a congregation is harmful, and does not recognize that there are significant relationships between various parts of the congregation, as well as between members and elders, and deacons, etc. It is not as simple as you make it sound. An overbearing counselor or interim moderator leads to an immature body of believers, never able to take on the tasks God has given them.
No matter what a synodical committee came up with, this is a difficult issue to deal with, and their report will not make it any easier. It is always difficult to find a balance between grace and sanctified living, which means how do you love the sinner without making the sin itself seem acceptable? Nor is it easy for people to live sexually pure lives. It often takes a lot of hard work, especially when we remember what Jesus said about adultery, for example, that if you even look on someone with lust you have already committed adultery. (or presumably fornication). I'm not sure what is implied by "robust theology"; why not concentrate on a biblical theology? and it seems to me we already have that.... just how eager are we to live by it?
Chris, I will add one after thought in terms of sharing throughout at least one event during the rest of the year. When young people or older people make profession of faith, do not read the form in church. Simply indicate that it was read in the council meeting, and that they agreed to it. Instead, have each one give their personal testimony of why they chose at this time to publicly acknowledge their faith, and what their faith means to them, and what difference it will make in their life. This would add beauty, joy and grace to our communal worship in a way that we usually do not see.
And for those not yet ready to make a formal "profession for membership", encourage some to make a personal testimony from time to time to share the growth in their knowledge and walk with God. (using discretion) From the heart. This brings beauty and joy and witness in contrast to the stilted, formalized procedures and formalities, which leave doubt, a lack of edification, or a lack of connection with the observers.
For those who don't feel equipped, I suggest that you look for and purchase some Christian literature on the subject, as there is much available. In response to Daniel Z, while we agree that it is not always easy to love the sinner while not making the sin seem acceptable, this is something that does need to be done and worked at. There is not always a simple formula for it.
On the other hand, Daniel's other comments stray into the area of making the sin seem acceptable. By simply saying that there are two points of view on this, both supposedly equally valid, and that we ought to study this all over again, the sin begins to seem acceptable. This is an old topic now, discussed at least for forty years. There is much literature available on understanding the scriptures that speak to this issue. No matter what physiological conditions are attributed to certain inclinations, it does not really change the moral implications. So putting together a new study on scripture directions for homosex will never make it better, only worse, because of our own sinful inclinations to make excuses for sin.
We can better concentrate on how to love the sinner without excusing the sin, without making the sin seem acceptable. This applies to a much broader area than just homosex, since it also includes dealing with premarital sex, adultery, theft, porn, vulgar language, abortion, etc. I think we already have lots of information on that, and know what our direction should be on that, but we instinctively don't want to walk the talk. We are naturally inclined, as our confessions and scripture indicate, to make excuses for our sin, to "turn the grace of God into a license for immorality" (Jude). What we need to do is pray more for God to give us strength to mount up like eagles and live the life of faith. As in Romans 1, we are "called to the obedience that comes from faith..."
Ryan, this morning I was reading from the passage in Matthew 7:21 that says there are many who will say "Lord, Lord" and yet will not enter heaven. They prophesied, cast out demons, and performed miracles, and yet God will say, "why were you not obedient? Get away from me!"
Productivity is an economic term, but obedience is what God is asking for. God makes us productive when we are obedient, not by the number of sermons, services, songs, miracles, conversions, healings, visits. Our productivity will never replace our disobedience or our lack of repentance.
However, I appreciate your practical suggestions about patience, hope, trusting in Jesus daily, sabbath, and focus, are very useful in the right context.
Daniel, you have hit on a very pertinent relevant point. And I totally agree.
Recently I have read a book called Silas Diaries, written about Paul and Barnabas in Galatia, establishing the four churches there. Although the book is an extrapolation, it is based on what we know about his trip there, and the thesis is that he left those churches without official leaders. Without appointed pastors. Yet those churches grew. People who were there filled those roles, and everyone participated in teaching, shepherding, evangelizing.
They were not worried about term appointments, nor were they sitting on their hands waiting for a "pastor" so that they would not be "vacant". Rather, they were being pastors and teachers and evangelists. We need to train and be trained not just in job descriptions, or techniques, but to change our attitudes. These gifts are not just given to a seminary trained doctor of divinity. These gifts are given to many ordinary people, who can put these gifts to immediate use.
While sensitivity ought to be a characteristic of the christian, we ought also to remember that Christ himself used the term "the blind leading the blind" to describe the leaders of Israel. (Matthew 15). Or remember the phrase, "...hearing they do not hear"? I am old enough to wonder if sometimes I am losing my hearing slowly, due to a constant buzzing in the ear. I could refer to it as a "difficulty" or some other euphenism, but the truth is that if I am becoming deaf, that is what it is. Being almost blind without my glasses.... is what it is.
My value and worth to Christ is not based on the little hammer in my ear, nor in the cornea or retina of my eyes, nor on whether I am missing a fingernail or an arm, or have a hip replacement, or suffer arthritis, or need a cane or walker or wheelchair. As Christians we take each other the way we are, and not as someone we would like to be or imagine to be. Without minimizing it, whatever physical handicap we might have, is as nothing compared to the handicap of pride, or self pity, or lack of relationship with Christ. Sugar-coating our condtion will probably not help either in the physical or spiritual realm. Christ makes all things new. We are not different just because we use different words to describe our frailties, but we are new because we can see beyond our condition, because Christ loves us.
Mark, acceptability perhaps ought not to be the primary criteria.... just sayin... Unless it is acceptable first of all to Christ. Jesus used the terms in a metaphorical way, even though, like you said, he clearly indicated that people were not maimed or blind or deaf because of their particular sin, nor even the sin of their parents. That's clear. When people say that some are physically blind because of lack of faith, they are not using a metaphor; they are simply speaking untruth. (Lying, or inaccurate) Only the blind can perhaps truly understand the metaphor, since how can one who sees really understand what it is to be blind? Thus the blind leading the blind.... but those blind think they can see, as Jesus said. "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say , We see... But you remain guilty because you claim you can see" (John 9:41).
Posted in: Genesis - Again!
The lack of evidence of turbulence or rapid flow of water would not mean that mud could not be deposited rapidly (within a day or two). If mud enters the surface of a relatively deep water body which then becomes murky with silt and clay particles, these particles could begin to deposit fairly quickly without leaving evidence of turbulence. It depends on how deep the water is. With shallow water one would expect to see some horizontal differentiation, but not necessarily with deeper water over a relatively flat surface.
With replenishment of the mud particles, the deposition of these layers could reoccur fairly frequently in a relatively short period of time.
The other thing that one would expect to see in soil formations laid down over long periods of time, is evidence of erosion, and evidence of plant growth (roots, root channels). Erosion would tend to break up sediment layers, leaving very few continuities. Plant growth would distort and mix sediment layers, leaving organic residues between layers as well as mixed within layers. Calculations of organic matter production over a thousand years, or over a million years, would give some clue as to how much material ought to be there. If these things are not evident, then it would be more reasonable to suppose that neither erosion nor plant growth occurred between layers, which would in most cases lead to the conclusion that there was not time for these things to happen.
Posted in: Genesis - Again!
Thanks for your comment, George. It is appreciated.
Posted in: Classical Counsellors
Norman, you do not indicate whether the Presbyterian church was PCUSA or PCA. I have heard of big differences between them. That aside, calling a church vacant, when presumably there are several elders likely present, and there is a congregation present, seems presumptuous. Precisecly because the church is not vacant, but merely has a pastoral vacancy, is why each church needs to determine its own need for a counselor or advisor. The assumption that the only relationship or significance is between a pastor and a congregation is harmful, and does not recognize that there are significant relationships between various parts of the congregation, as well as between members and elders, and deacons, etc. It is not as simple as you make it sound. An overbearing counselor or interim moderator leads to an immature body of believers, never able to take on the tasks God has given them.
Posted in: Are We Fully Equipped?
No matter what a synodical committee came up with, this is a difficult issue to deal with, and their report will not make it any easier. It is always difficult to find a balance between grace and sanctified living, which means how do you love the sinner without making the sin itself seem acceptable? Nor is it easy for people to live sexually pure lives. It often takes a lot of hard work, especially when we remember what Jesus said about adultery, for example, that if you even look on someone with lust you have already committed adultery. (or presumably fornication). I'm not sure what is implied by "robust theology"; why not concentrate on a biblical theology? and it seems to me we already have that.... just how eager are we to live by it?
Posted in: An Evangelizing Joy
Chris, I will add one after thought in terms of sharing throughout at least one event during the rest of the year. When young people or older people make profession of faith, do not read the form in church. Simply indicate that it was read in the council meeting, and that they agreed to it. Instead, have each one give their personal testimony of why they chose at this time to publicly acknowledge their faith, and what their faith means to them, and what difference it will make in their life. This would add beauty, joy and grace to our communal worship in a way that we usually do not see.
And for those not yet ready to make a formal "profession for membership", encourage some to make a personal testimony from time to time to share the growth in their knowledge and walk with God. (using discretion) From the heart. This brings beauty and joy and witness in contrast to the stilted, formalized procedures and formalities, which leave doubt, a lack of edification, or a lack of connection with the observers.
Posted in: Are We Fully Equipped?
For those who don't feel equipped, I suggest that you look for and purchase some Christian literature on the subject, as there is much available. In response to Daniel Z, while we agree that it is not always easy to love the sinner while not making the sin seem acceptable, this is something that does need to be done and worked at. There is not always a simple formula for it.
On the other hand, Daniel's other comments stray into the area of making the sin seem acceptable. By simply saying that there are two points of view on this, both supposedly equally valid, and that we ought to study this all over again, the sin begins to seem acceptable. This is an old topic now, discussed at least for forty years. There is much literature available on understanding the scriptures that speak to this issue. No matter what physiological conditions are attributed to certain inclinations, it does not really change the moral implications. So putting together a new study on scripture directions for homosex will never make it better, only worse, because of our own sinful inclinations to make excuses for sin.
We can better concentrate on how to love the sinner without excusing the sin, without making the sin seem acceptable. This applies to a much broader area than just homosex, since it also includes dealing with premarital sex, adultery, theft, porn, vulgar language, abortion, etc. I think we already have lots of information on that, and know what our direction should be on that, but we instinctively don't want to walk the talk. We are naturally inclined, as our confessions and scripture indicate, to make excuses for our sin, to "turn the grace of God into a license for immorality" (Jude). What we need to do is pray more for God to give us strength to mount up like eagles and live the life of faith. As in Romans 1, we are "called to the obedience that comes from faith..."
Posted in: Understanding Islam, Loving Muslims
Why do you prefer the King James version of the Bible? And can I ask what is your favorite verse in the new testament?
Posted in: Gospel-Driven Productivity
Ryan, this morning I was reading from the passage in Matthew 7:21 that says there are many who will say "Lord, Lord" and yet will not enter heaven. They prophesied, cast out demons, and performed miracles, and yet God will say, "why were you not obedient? Get away from me!"
Productivity is an economic term, but obedience is what God is asking for. God makes us productive when we are obedient, not by the number of sermons, services, songs, miracles, conversions, healings, visits. Our productivity will never replace our disobedience or our lack of repentance.
However, I appreciate your practical suggestions about patience, hope, trusting in Jesus daily, sabbath, and focus, are very useful in the right context.
Posted in: Developing Christian Leaders - Necessity or Afterthought?
Daniel, you have hit on a very pertinent relevant point. And I totally agree.
Recently I have read a book called Silas Diaries, written about Paul and Barnabas in Galatia, establishing the four churches there. Although the book is an extrapolation, it is based on what we know about his trip there, and the thesis is that he left those churches without official leaders. Without appointed pastors. Yet those churches grew. People who were there filled those roles, and everyone participated in teaching, shepherding, evangelizing.
They were not worried about term appointments, nor were they sitting on their hands waiting for a "pastor" so that they would not be "vacant". Rather, they were being pastors and teachers and evangelists. We need to train and be trained not just in job descriptions, or techniques, but to change our attitudes. These gifts are not just given to a seminary trained doctor of divinity. These gifts are given to many ordinary people, who can put these gifts to immediate use.
Posted in: When Abled People Don't Know They're Being Abled
While sensitivity ought to be a characteristic of the christian, we ought also to remember that Christ himself used the term "the blind leading the blind" to describe the leaders of Israel. (Matthew 15). Or remember the phrase, "...hearing they do not hear"? I am old enough to wonder if sometimes I am losing my hearing slowly, due to a constant buzzing in the ear. I could refer to it as a "difficulty" or some other euphenism, but the truth is that if I am becoming deaf, that is what it is. Being almost blind without my glasses.... is what it is.
My value and worth to Christ is not based on the little hammer in my ear, nor in the cornea or retina of my eyes, nor on whether I am missing a fingernail or an arm, or have a hip replacement, or suffer arthritis, or need a cane or walker or wheelchair. As Christians we take each other the way we are, and not as someone we would like to be or imagine to be. Without minimizing it, whatever physical handicap we might have, is as nothing compared to the handicap of pride, or self pity, or lack of relationship with Christ. Sugar-coating our condtion will probably not help either in the physical or spiritual realm. Christ makes all things new. We are not different just because we use different words to describe our frailties, but we are new because we can see beyond our condition, because Christ loves us.
Posted in: Developing Christian Leaders - Necessity or Afterthought?
The article by Alan Hirsch is a good one. Thought provoking and well written.
Posted in: When Abled People Don't Know They're Being Abled
Mark, acceptability perhaps ought not to be the primary criteria.... just sayin... Unless it is acceptable first of all to Christ. Jesus used the terms in a metaphorical way, even though, like you said, he clearly indicated that people were not maimed or blind or deaf because of their particular sin, nor even the sin of their parents. That's clear. When people say that some are physically blind because of lack of faith, they are not using a metaphor; they are simply speaking untruth. (Lying, or inaccurate) Only the blind can perhaps truly understand the metaphor, since how can one who sees really understand what it is to be blind? Thus the blind leading the blind.... but those blind think they can see, as Jesus said. "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say , We see... But you remain guilty because you claim you can see" (John 9:41).