I am the Lead Pastor of Cadillac CRC in Cadillac, MI. I am married to Lora (Blankespoor of Pella, IA). We have three children. Marisa, William, Elizabeth and in the process of adopting through Bethany Christian Services another school aged child from the state of Michigan.
Size doesn't matter. A willingness to engage the younger generation is at the heart of this issue. I've been to small churches and just the opposite is true. I don't think the issue is as cut and dry as this makes it to be.
I serve a medium size church that is one of the few growing... and we can find places and opportunities for younger people to find their voice, but we're willing to engage.
Thank you for confirming what I thought I already knew...I am only into my first call a year and a half and loving it. However, as we do make changes and as we try new things, I want to make sure that I am not serving myself but have the mind of Christ and thinking on God's priorities.
Brian
ps. had to post something to complete my profile... :) This Network stuff needs to spread!
We go back a long way together. I appreciate your words and receive your encouragement. I think 'fear' is rampant when 'change' happens. So what 's been the best way to help those that are scared that you've deployed? Something like what Daniel wrote and I've quoted or something else?
@Daniel,
Thank you! I am learning more about myself and how I handle things like this more now than ever in seminary. Which is not to say that seminary is bad, it just doesn't prepare you to be targeted. I must admit, the more I pray, the more God reveals that problems are closer than they appear. A mirror is quite unkind. At the same time, I find it difficult to balance the humble pie and the deep conviction that something needs to change. Thank you for your words, "Humbly receive the criticism, saying thank you for talking to you, then share with them the purpose for the changes, and how this isn't about like or dislike but it's about ______________ ." I will work at this...
This is quite interesting to me... my one questions however, is how does this missional community tie back into the larger church from which it was sent? Is that even an option or desired within the MC?
Great thread on a timely and necessary discussion, especailly for the CRC.
I am currently working on my D.min at Fuller Seminary around this whole community idea, but that doesn't make me an expert in any way. I am pleased to see something unfold in Larry's comment and Nate's as well. Both have expressed that there is at least, in someway, the idea that the Missional Communities that have formed or are being formed, are tying back into the larger congregation. Standing on the window sill of this massive conversation looking out at the landscape, if connection to the originating congregation doesn't happen, something tragic will be on THE CHURCH'S doorstep before we know it. The unintentional killing off of thousands of churches all for the sake of being missional. Let's not forget what has brought us this far.
The idea of missional communities, if practiced the way people like Guder, McNeal, Van Gelder, Zscheile, etc. are promoting, then lets call them what they are. Church plants. But keep in mind, it's inevitible that missional communities are going to need some sort of institutional or organizational capacity or things like theology and sacrament will derail faster than my fantasy football team at crunch time. Culture has a sneaky powerful way of shaping any community that is relying on the hospitality of the stranger or "target" of the missional community. Jesus can quickly become something other than Jesus because we are all broken and fleshly. Hence, IMHO, the NEED to tie into the larger church. Accountability with the rule of faith and life is necessary, but accountability is taboo in our me first culture.
Nate & Allen, awesome stuff... thought provoking to say the least.
@ Nate - I am realizing [-bowling reference coming-] the lane of orthodxy is much wider than what seminary taught. There is a lot of room, but things can still jump into the gutter if not handled properly. Really excited to see oversight by you and your elders... I think that's critical. As for the slower aspect...I think slower is better. Innovation feels great, but innovation unchecked and unordered leads to a fast start but major fizzle down the road. Releasing missional communities should be like how we handle our children... tight at first, seasoned with grace, fully pushing them out the door, seasoned with grace.
@Allen - What's retirement? Yes... the two paradigms are certainly at odds with each other, but the answer isn't one or the other, its BOTH / AND (bullet point above). I am serving a church that has two churches in one. They fit your paradigm description to the T. I am convinced that each side needs to "seek understanding, before being understood." The missional minded people and their directions leaves them isolated from a greater work of the Spirit and the institutional minded people and their directions leads to plateau and even death... So I affirm your vision work and dialogue with your church. It's not easy and even downright frustrating. The BOTH / AND is the solution... It's matter of truly asking ourselves, do we really believe the gospel and are we willing to live it out? If so, both paradigms can live in harmony. In fact, are dependent on each other. Which in turn, IMHO, has been the bibical approach all along. There is nothing new under the sun...
I don't know much about the the immigrant church, so I can't really comment. Drawing from the name you've given them, doesn't the immigrant church already have mission in their DNA or they wouldn't have been looking for something better...or bigger...or deeper... a greater expression of the Kingdom?
Aha...so that's what I've been feeling inside. I could never in a million years word it like that, but I get it. Took me three reads, but I got it. John, you are right on.
My three pennies worth for making this vision a reality:
1. Praise and adore the Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer, and somedaycomeandfixitallbetter God. Seek his presence.
2. Be Pastors and people who are willing to not just write a whole bunch of nice vision stuff, but BE THE ONE who holds the gas pedal down at 5000rpms that keep churches accountable to the original plan... advance the Kingdom. Lead by example.
3."Don't create, discover, or facilitate a program but rather cultivate an environment of hospitality that animates the whole posture of the community as it relates to its surrounding environment. When we settle for programs, not only does it relieve the people it seeks to serve from stretching and doing the hard work of building relationships, it also lets the rest of the church off the hook as it relates to embodying the Christian virtue of hospitality-a fundamental aspect of discipleship for people who claim to follow Jesus Christ." Tim Keel, Intutitive Leadership, page 242. Do it different.
Count me in.
Bringing Cadillac CRC along, whether they like it or not.
"Ninevites" are part of God's redemptive people, as scary as they may look. A real disciple doesn't sit under a shelter or a vine, he or she, gets in the sackcloth with the people, the king, and the animals and helps them find their right hand and their left hand. Give me more sackcloth!
Posted in: Who has information on how to handle the training and support for the Council/Elder chairman?
A great resource to help find some understanding can be found http://alban.org/conversation.aspx?id=9348
Posted in: Where Young Christians Should Go To Church and Why
Size doesn't matter. A willingness to engage the younger generation is at the heart of this issue. I've been to small churches and just the opposite is true. I don't think the issue is as cut and dry as this makes it to be.
I serve a medium size church that is one of the few growing... and we can find places and opportunities for younger people to find their voice, but we're willing to engage.
Posted in: Matt 18:15
Ken,
Thank you for confirming what I thought I already knew...I am only into my first call a year and a half and loving it. However, as we do make changes and as we try new things, I want to make sure that I am not serving myself but have the mind of Christ and thinking on God's priorities.
Brian
ps. had to post something to complete my profile... :) This Network stuff needs to spread!
Posted in: Matt 18:15
@Todd,
We go back a long way together. I appreciate your words and receive your encouragement. I think 'fear' is rampant when 'change' happens. So what 's been the best way to help those that are scared that you've deployed? Something like what Daniel wrote and I've quoted or something else?
@Daniel,
Thank you! I am learning more about myself and how I handle things like this more now than ever in seminary. Which is not to say that seminary is bad, it just doesn't prepare you to be targeted. I must admit, the more I pray, the more God reveals that problems are closer than they appear. A mirror is quite unkind. At the same time, I find it difficult to balance the humble pie and the deep conviction that something needs to change. Thank you for your words, "Humbly receive the criticism, saying thank you for talking to you, then share with them the purpose for the changes, and how this isn't about like or dislike but it's about ______________ ." I will work at this...
Posted in: Missional Communities After a Year
This is quite interesting to me... my one questions however, is how does this missional community tie back into the larger church from which it was sent? Is that even an option or desired within the MC?
Posted in: Missional Communities After a Year
Great thread on a timely and necessary discussion, especailly for the CRC.
I am currently working on my D.min at Fuller Seminary around this whole community idea, but that doesn't make me an expert in any way. I am pleased to see something unfold in Larry's comment and Nate's as well. Both have expressed that there is at least, in someway, the idea that the Missional Communities that have formed or are being formed, are tying back into the larger congregation. Standing on the window sill of this massive conversation looking out at the landscape, if connection to the originating congregation doesn't happen, something tragic will be on THE CHURCH'S doorstep before we know it. The unintentional killing off of thousands of churches all for the sake of being missional. Let's not forget what has brought us this far.
The idea of missional communities, if practiced the way people like Guder, McNeal, Van Gelder, Zscheile, etc. are promoting, then lets call them what they are. Church plants. But keep in mind, it's inevitible that missional communities are going to need some sort of institutional or organizational capacity or things like theology and sacrament will derail faster than my fantasy football team at crunch time. Culture has a sneaky powerful way of shaping any community that is relying on the hospitality of the stranger or "target" of the missional community. Jesus can quickly become something other than Jesus because we are all broken and fleshly. Hence, IMHO, the NEED to tie into the larger church. Accountability with the rule of faith and life is necessary, but accountability is taboo in our me first culture.
two more cents...
Posted in: Missional Communities After a Year
Nate & Allen, awesome stuff... thought provoking to say the least.
@ Nate - I am realizing [-bowling reference coming-] the lane of orthodxy is much wider than what seminary taught. There is a lot of room, but things can still jump into the gutter if not handled properly. Really excited to see oversight by you and your elders... I think that's critical. As for the slower aspect...I think slower is better. Innovation feels great, but innovation unchecked and unordered leads to a fast start but major fizzle down the road. Releasing missional communities should be like how we handle our children... tight at first, seasoned with grace, fully pushing them out the door, seasoned with grace.
@Allen - What's retirement? Yes... the two paradigms are certainly at odds with each other, but the answer isn't one or the other, its BOTH / AND (bullet point above). I am serving a church that has two churches in one. They fit your paradigm description to the T. I am convinced that each side needs to "seek understanding, before being understood." The missional minded people and their directions leaves them isolated from a greater work of the Spirit and the institutional minded people and their directions leads to plateau and even death... So I affirm your vision work and dialogue with your church. It's not easy and even downright frustrating. The BOTH / AND is the solution... It's matter of truly asking ourselves, do we really believe the gospel and are we willing to live it out? If so, both paradigms can live in harmony. In fact, are dependent on each other. Which in turn, IMHO, has been the bibical approach all along. There is nothing new under the sun...
I don't know much about the the immigrant church, so I can't really comment. Drawing from the name you've given them, doesn't the immigrant church already have mission in their DNA or they wouldn't have been looking for something better...or bigger...or deeper... a greater expression of the Kingdom?
Posted in: My Dream for the Christian Reformed Church
John, (Hey Allen & Mark)
Aha...so that's what I've been feeling inside. I could never in a million years word it like that, but I get it. Took me three reads, but I got it. John, you are right on.
My three pennies worth for making this vision a reality:
1. Praise and adore the Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer, and somedaycomeandfixitallbetter God. Seek his presence.
2. Be Pastors and people who are willing to not just write a whole bunch of nice vision stuff, but BE THE ONE who holds the gas pedal down at 5000rpms that keep churches accountable to the original plan... advance the Kingdom. Lead by example.
3."Don't create, discover, or facilitate a program but rather cultivate an environment of hospitality that animates the whole posture of the community as it relates to its surrounding environment. When we settle for programs, not only does it relieve the people it seeks to serve from stretching and doing the hard work of building relationships, it also lets the rest of the church off the hook as it relates to embodying the Christian virtue of hospitality-a fundamental aspect of discipleship for people who claim to follow Jesus Christ." Tim Keel, Intutitive Leadership, page 242. Do it different.
Count me in.
Bringing Cadillac CRC along, whether they like it or not.
All for God's Glory.
Posted in: The Disciple's Prayer
AMEN... akd. You da Man.
"Ninevites" are part of God's redemptive people, as scary as they may look. A real disciple doesn't sit under a shelter or a vine, he or she, gets in the sackcloth with the people, the king, and the animals and helps them find their right hand and their left hand. Give me more sackcloth!