Bev Sterk

ok Shawn, I just read Keith's permission to broaden the discussion  =)... which I missed or it didn't catch my attention the first time I read that... 

So I do believe the root of many issues/addictions/sins is our lack of understanding of the Holy Spirit and His gifts.  I would love to see deliverance used for many who are struggling, because our whole awareness of the demonic realm, of spiritual warfare is very limited from my experience in the crc... almost anytime I even bring up the demonic, one of the first comments back is "well some people think there's a demon behind every bush", and to me it seems we might be at the the other extreme, that hey, this is America, they don't exist here.

and the gift of prophecy is something I'm desperate for in His Bride, and our crc as part of that Bride...  this is the key gift that edifies and builds up His Church.  Yes, unfortunately there has been lots of damage with the gift, but I believe that's because we don't know how to test and discern when someone shares an "alleged" word from the LORD.  Again, God is up front with us telling us, we will have to test them.

What if have found in my experience being involved in a local prayer center, is that for a substantial number of believers, time in prayer, worship and in the Word is limited... this was a statistic of 2000 spiritual leaders (sorry, I'm not picking on them, it's just the statistic that sticks in my mind), is that 95% of them spend less than 5 minutes a day in prayer.  Through involvement with the prayer center, we find this to be true at many levels.  Prayer is not valued in our "can do" society, and we/the Bride is suffering because we are not spending time with Jesus.   When the LORD stirred up my prayer life, it made night and day difference in my walk with Him.   That's also when I discovered the Holy Spirit at new levels, I never heard talked about in crc circles, or if the topic was brought up, the subject was quickly changed.  \

The good news is we have young adults in their 20's who do get prayer, and are spending 10-30 hours a week worshipping and crying out to Him.   We are seeing God move through various spheres of society in powerful ways and it's very exciting.  I have been involved with healing prayer ministries... this is something new for many in the crc, and we still have a lot to learn (and we might have to humble ourselves and  learn it from other denominations that have been walking in this much longer than we have).   I run into a lot of intellectual skepticism, but I also get to be encouraged when I find someone like minded who has experienced the power of the Holy Spirit in ways that can only be God.

beautiful, Rachel, bless your heart for sharing this very personal testimony... God's been emphasizing that scripture to me this year... we are new creations in Christ, the old is gone!  PTL!!

Praise the LORD, Shawn, that's why we have the Holy Spirit, so He can guide us through each situation with its unique variables and unique people that are involved.  What might work well for one, might not work for the next even if the situation is similar, due to different personality issues or where they are in there walk with Jesus, or what the root issue is that caused the sin in the first place.   But the Holy Spirit knows each person/situation intimately, and knows exactly what is needed to bring healing, wholeness and restoration.  It will not be a "cookie cutter" answer.. if a, then b... that's man's way...   that's why I keep encouraging us (the crc) to EAGERLY DESIRE this gift of prophesy.  We cannot know every situation we will encounter, but He does!

God is a creative God, and I believe He is encouraging us to "listen" for His specific guidance in each situation.  His guidance will always line up with His Word. 

Hmmm... as I was thinking about this, maybe there should be an anonymous type prophetic "council" that receives the facts and then listens for guidance from the Holy Spirit on how to bring healing to the situation.    So, maybe there is a "go to" person in each classis, where pastors can "confess" their unholiness, whatever it might be, and then the "go to" person can bring the facts without the names/place to this "council", and they "process" the facts as they listen to the Spirit, and then it goes back through the classis guy, and then to the pastor and his accountability group, which there will most likely be one recommended, if there wasn't one before.   But one of the keys to healing is that the person needing healing is "listening" with the team as well...

I have been involved in inner healing ministries (not in the crc though), and these are powerful.  As a team, we listen to the Holy Spirit together, and help someone get to the root of their issues.  It's profound.  We have had people share, that what they have spent years in counseling for, we get through in several hours, as well as other amazing testimonies of helping bring healing from a difficult situation .  It's hard, and it's intense, but it's incredible.  That's the Holy Spirit, and He's the Counselor!!!

maybe we need to implement the Catholic confessional  ; ) !!  or maybe we should just send our "problems" to them for confessions?

well, our battle is not with flesh and blood, and when we recognize that it's the enemy that the "sinner" has allowed themself to come in agreement with, that often takes the hostility away from being directed toward the sinner.   It's just if their heart is hard and unrepentant, and they don't take any responsibility themself, then it's harder to be gracious =/...  well, then they usually aren't ready for help, and one of the more extreme "excommunication" type responses might be necessary.    Again, the Holy Spirit will know what level of being "expelled" will bring the repentance.

I believe if the person is being convicted by the Holy Spirit, they will also usually be convicted to step down for a while, because they know their leadership at that time is probably not in the best interest of the Bride.

and we can only do any of this with the help of the Holy Spirit.

I believe with all my heart, that the LORD is calling His Bride to holiness, particularly the leaders.   If the leaders are not walking in holiness, they are hindering the entire assembly/congregation/denomination/whatever sphere of influence they have,  and this is just one issue.   I'm not sure we understand very well why holiness is so important...anyway, lots of thoughts...

The flame shall not hurt thee, I only design, thy dross to consume and thy gold to refine...   He's purifying His Bride.

How Firm a Foundation/Malachi 3:2-3

Some "sharp" insight, Doug... it seems the "sword" mentioned in Hebrews 4:12 is doing some dividing between "soul and spirit", "bone and marrow" and now "justice and mercy" =)...

I think you hit on a key thought with how mercy is meant to be done voluntarily based on biblical love and unity (God's way), not forced (man's way?).  and i wonder if "social justice" aka "rights based justice" (is that a fair equation?) is part of the reason "entitlement" seems to be so rampant.

Hi Greg... it looks like that link is no longer available as they (CAC) have recently (in June) redone their website with a different web address, and I can't find the quote anymore... it was a quote regarding the prophets then, prophets now conference Richard Rohr did back in 2006...    here's the new website and at the bottom of this link you will see that Richard dates it June 2012... it seems he is much more focused on contemplation and mysticism now (seems more new age, but they do still reference scripture and God), and it looks like he has just started a new school on contemplation... I didn't see any mention of prophets or the prophetic on the new site...

http://cac.org/dm-themes 

Good thoughts John... Thanks for taking the time to think about this and respond.  I have just started studying Samuel as prophet (and seer, now there's a term we don't use too often)... I am particularly looking for indicators of his prayer life, and so as I was reading Samuel earlier today, and in 1 Samuel 7:5-17, it talks about Samuel interceding on behalf of the people, with a footnote that says, prophets had a special responsibility to be intercessors for God's people.  hmmm...  i think there is a high correlation between a person's prayer life and the release/level of prophetic gifting in their life.   that's my hypothesis, and so now I'm studying the prophets to see how true that is.  and love any and all the input from everyone that would like to share their thoughts!!  or maybe someone's written a book about this already, that I'm not aware of  =)...