I grew up in the CRC, and am still here, along with my family. I'm married to Daryl, who has a construction business. I had a CPA license for 10 or so years, then I added EX to the front, and MOM to the back, so now I'm an EX CPA, MOM =). I am MOM to Duncan, Ian and Samantha. Our family also owns a raspberry farm, and in the summers we get to work out there together.
Bless your heart, Karl, for going out on this limb... yup, I think we/crc are being stretched into areas that are new for us... I believe this is a good thing... Josh. 3:4... then you will know which way to go, since you have never been this way before...
there might be another distinction here... that between testimonies that God gives as encouragement for us personally, along with other believers, and what is evangelism for non-believers... our testimony is not limited to our conversion, but is added to on a regular basis as we walk in faith..
Regarding spiritual intimacy, I think of Eph. 1:17-18, where Paul prays for the Spirit of wisdom and revelation so that we may know God better - as one example of a scriptural call for intimacy... I believe almost every time the OT talks about "knowing" God, it is the same Hebrew word (yada) that He uses for marital intimacy... will our knowledge/experience be limited? of course, because God is an infinite God, and so we can only know a very small part of Him, a drop in an ocean, but even that drop that we can know is beyond amazing... Scripture uses the analogy of husband and wife, between Jesus and the Church (Eph. 5:32 - and song of songs for almost 2000 years, it's only in the last 100 years or so, that some no longer support this analogy in song of songs - which is an entire discussion)...
that thaand that the eyes of our hearts are enlightened, so we can know the hope of our inheritance... eyes of our hearts refers to a spiritual experience... this is our inner being, also referenced in Eph. 3:16, where the Spirit is working in us... our faith is Spirit and truth... it takes both working together... Paul says he does both when he prays in I Cor. 14:14-15... praying in tongues is a spiritual experience... the peace that passes understanding is a spiritual experience, becoming new creations in Christ is a spiritual experience (2 Cor 5:17)... having our hearts of stone become hearts of flesh (Ez 36:26), having His Spirit dwell in us, is a spiritual experience... I have testimonies of when He has melted my heart, when my heart was getting hard and cold, and aloof and proud, and in less than a moment He melted it, it was not emotionalism, because there wasn't enough time for that, but there were "triggers" that He used... was there dialogue with God during these times... oh yes... they were terrible and beautiful experiences at the same time, and I'm so glad He didn't let my heart stay hard...
King David talks about praising Him with all our "inmost being" ... so that our youth is renewed like the eagles - that sounds like a spiritual experience... that "deep rooted assurance" of faith mentioned somewhere earlier (i think it's referred to in HC Q&A 23), is a spiritual experience - it's that you know that you know in your inner being through a gift of the Spirit, even though there is no tangible "faith" to show other than through our actions...
those are just a few examples from scripture that I can think of off the top of my head...
Hebrews 6 talks about the elementary teachings, which includes faith in God (v1), and growing/maturing beyond that... I know this is a difficult passage with various interpretations, and maybe you interpret this differently, if so I would be interested in knowing how you view this...
as for "hiding" our works, interestingly Matt 5 tells us we are a light on a hill, and we are not to cover it up...let your light shine before men SO THAT others may see our good deeds and praise our Father in heaven... they are for HIS GLORY!!!
being "all alone" is such a common method of the enemy to bring discouragement and hopelessness... I'm reminded of Ms. Martha's pity party in Luke 10:40, "...alone" or "...by myself?" can relate at times and have indulged in similar pity parties... but as believers we can recognize it for what it is...
LORD, continue to connect those who are reaching out in loneliness, that feel isolated and like they are the only ones that are struggling with something, we pray for Divine connections that only You can orchestrate, and give you the glory and thanks, in the Name of Jesus.
re-reading your posts, Henry, I have another question for you... how did you know you were called to be a pastor (maybe I'm wrong about you being a pastor, but that's what i understand from you "entering the ministry" in your 20's)? You say God has never told you what call to take, or what car to buy... so then when pastors are "called"... what do they mean?
Well Henry, I agree that as the Church, we need to focus and proclaim more of Jesus and His sacrifice - that's why I love the Moravians and Count Zinzendorf... yesterday's devotional by Oswald Chambers in his My Utmost for His Highest also confirmed what you have shared...
but I think there is a place for personal testimonies as well,even in their weak, imperfectness, to encourage fellow believers... recognizing that each testimony is a gift as well, and so giving God the glory... we can have contempt for our part in it, but I think we have to be careful about being contemptuous of what God via the Holy Spirit is doing when He gives us Divine insight/direction/leading/guiding as Scripture tells us He does and will..
in another post you mentioned something about how do we know if it's God or self, or the enemy, and you gave an example of a father killing his children... a simple test of lining it up with scripture would discern that is not God, He is life, He tells us to choose life, He commands us not to kill... but some might argue that God allowed His Son to be killed and so indirectly He killed Jesus, because He could have prevented it... but we know Jesus willingly went to the cross for the joy that was set before Him...
and yes, some/many might use it so they can disregard their own responsibility... I think of the convictions the Spirit has put on my heart, that made sense with Who God is, but were totally counter intuitive from an intellectual perspective... ie giving/tithing whatever you want to call it, particularly in a struggling economy... cutting back on my work, so I could be more available for my family... made NO SENSE economically... by my budget, we should be broke and out on the street, with no assets left... that hasn't happened, although it has been tight for the last several years, but He has been training us in Prov. 3, spending a lot more wisely, and investing in His Kingdom, instead of our earthly kingdom.. it has been a difficult, but incredible journey of trusting Him and drawing closer to Him, we have seen His outpouring of blessing on our lives so many ways, most significantly with Proverbs 3 wealth aka wisdom (v13-18)! So those are my weak and imperfect words, but the amazing journey He gave us, is because of Him and Who He is... for His Glory which includes the supremacy of Christ! (Col 1:18)
so the question to me is... to what extent do we need a "restructure"... is it a simpler remodel (which is never simple or convenient) or a more comprehensive rebuild (a lot of work, and stepping on some sacred toes, etc.)? from what I read in the agenda from the task force (the 5 smooth stones example and 5 streams proposal), I don't think they've even hit a remodel level yet (except maybe with the Canadian/binational issues)... so do i dare say, what I read still seemed a lot like re-arranging the furniture? as Mike pointed out, the execution of it will be the telling indicator, so in most ways it's too early to tell...
blessings Brother, hope you feel better soon... I don't wish being sick on anyone, but if this is what came out of being sick ... ;)
and bless your heart for being willing to admit this (publicly) as a pastor...
when we pray "less of me, more of You, Jesus"... we do need to be ready for what that might look like when God answers that... because our "toes will get stepped on", we won't be "recognized", won't get the credit, etc.... and our reaction is indicative of our hearts.
one of the things I struggle with in the Church, is pastor idolatry, I did some research on this recently, and was stunned, I hadn't thought about it much before, and then find out that it is a fairly significant issue in the Church...
it is so easy for us to talk about the "dynamic" pastor and his message/ministry, instead of how the "dynamic" Holy Spirit ministered to us through that person. It seems we can often be more drawn to our pastors than to Jesus... we fail to recognize the anointing of the Holy Spirit it seems... instead we are impressed with the dynamic, winsome ways of the person... if we think about it, of course we will say, those are their gifts from the Holy Spirit, that's a basic assumption that doesn't have to be spoken.... but I do struggle that our language when how we talk does not reflect that... we are to acknowledge Him in all our ways (Prov 3:6).
wow, yeah, this does hit on a nerve for me... recently I've been contemplating the structure of worship services, with one person getting most of the focus/attention, and wonder where is the prophetic table where EACH brings something for edification, where ALL will prophesy, so that ALL may learn, and ALL may be encouraged (I Cor 14:26,31 NKJV)... your "community group" gathering sounds like that is where something like that happens more so than the during the Sunday order of worship...
Preach the Fire, Brother... I recently read on article on the Holy Spirit from a CRC perspective, and I was surprised at how intensely I reacted to it... it mentioned the Holy Spirit as the "shy Member of the Trinity"... ohhh, it seems He's so misunderstood in our tradition...
Earlier this week I was wrestling with why are some pastors so "anointed" and others just don't seem to have it... one of the conclusions I came to, was it has to do with the pastors openness to the Holy Spirit, his sensitivity and seeking of the Holy Spirit, and that comes through prayer, soaking in the Word, for personal growth, as well as studying for sermons, extended times of worship, purity/holiness and humility. These pastors are walking/operating in their anointing. We need to intentionally recognize the Holy Spirit (not our intellect - although He works through our intellect) as the Source of our gifts. It's a basic assumption, but practically speaking is not being acknowledged. Just wrote something on another thread on pastor idolization... that's an entire topic on its own...
and yes Jesus will be glorifed when the pastors, who ALL have His anointing are operating in it!!! But it takes intentionally pursuing and acknowledging the Holy Spirit, Who will increase one's hunger for the Word, Who will add intensity to our prayer life, and Who will convict us in areas where He's calling us to holiness and purity.
wow, there's so much to say on this article, so I'll mostly respond to this line BOQ...intuitively, it (prayer summit) feels like a good idea." EOQ
you're right...
that's because it's scripturally Acts 6:4... and it opens the door to the prophetic table mentioned in I Cor 14:26-33 (NKJV)
historically -I think if we are honest with ourselves, prayer and the prophetic gift of the Spirit have not been strong marks of our denomination for various reasons. The extent of our limitations in each area is debatable - I'm not saying these haven't been there at all, because God as a generous and loving Heavenly Father has given us His Spirit to help us, even though we are often unaware and not intentionally seeking Him, and even though we have not been eagerly pursuing ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit due to cessationism. These gifts include those unexplainable "mystical" promptings that in the natural we have no way of knowing, which it seems often still receive much skepticism, if not outright unbelief that God doesn't do that anymore.
So, Roberts Rules and Church Order is the default method of operations... again, not saying the Spirit doesn't work through these... He does, because of God's generous nature! But there is a more intentional, more purposeful prophetic table of having the Holy Spirit lead, where leaders come together, worship, pray, listen to God and to each other and discern what God is prophetically telling them for this time, this place, this situation, these people...
now do we throw the intellect out? no, wisdom is part of the gifts as well... but sometimes we have let the intellect/man's way/human effort/human agency, etc trump the Spirit's way, for various reasons.
I seriously hope we/crc are shifting to a more intentional leading by the Holy Spirit, especially through the prophetic gifting, and that will be released through prayer... If one studies the OT prophets, one key characteristic, is that they were intercessors.
and yes, the face to face interaction/sharpening/testing is very important... I've had wonderful discussions with people on the internet and i'm thankful for those opportunities, but the relationship goes to an entire different level, it is so much more, when I get to meet with them face to face. It is a rich dimension of relationship/fellowship that we cannot experience very well through technology. The face to face connection is priceless!
and yes, it's quite possible, that as (not if ;) the crc continues the prayer summit, it will transition and converge with Synod in some Spirit directed way ;)
would love to engage on the rest of the article, but that's enough for this comment!
DV I will be following synod online again this year...
interesting for a number of reasons, one of the reasons is because one of my prayers has been, LORD, what does it mean/look like to "glory in Your Holy Name" I Chron 16:10...
and yes, I've been "surprised" by the NIV translation more than a few times as well...
studied the Hebrew words for praise, and had a "surprise" on NIV Ps. 149:6, where the translation of the Hebrew word "rowmemah" was not included
and recently did some research the greek words for "minister" and "worship" and "serve" based on Acts 13:2
studied the Names of God, and realized the NIV does not translate YHWH Sabaoth as "Lord of Hosts"... the NIV preface explains why, but I didn't think that was a good reason. I'm not saying that He isn't Almighty, but that is another Hebrew title of El Shaddai which is used for example in Ps 91:1... again, the preface addresses this, but when YHWH Sabaoth is one of the most frequently used titles that God uses for Himself in scripture, I think it's important we know what that Name means!
the "secret place" in Ps 91:1 nkjv is another concept i've studied, and realized the niv uses "shelter"... not a huge difference for many, but to me, it was significant... the Spirit has used both concepts to minister to me and others, but I personally generally prefer "secret place" and that has made a significant difference in my devotional time with Him.
Posted in: Classis at Prayer: Discerning God’s Will for the CRC
Bless your heart, Karl, for going out on this limb... yup, I think we/crc are being stretched into areas that are new for us... I believe this is a good thing... Josh. 3:4... then you will know which way to go, since you have never been this way before...
Posted in: Why Are Believers Not Declaring the Gospel?
there might be another distinction here... that between testimonies that God gives as encouragement for us personally, along with other believers, and what is evangelism for non-believers... our testimony is not limited to our conversion, but is added to on a regular basis as we walk in faith..
Posted in: Why Are Believers Not Declaring the Gospel?
Regarding spiritual intimacy, I think of Eph. 1:17-18, where Paul prays for the Spirit of wisdom and revelation so that we may know God better - as one example of a scriptural call for intimacy... I believe almost every time the OT talks about "knowing" God, it is the same Hebrew word (yada) that He uses for marital intimacy... will our knowledge/experience be limited? of course, because God is an infinite God, and so we can only know a very small part of Him, a drop in an ocean, but even that drop that we can know is beyond amazing... Scripture uses the analogy of husband and wife, between Jesus and the Church (Eph. 5:32 - and song of songs for almost 2000 years, it's only in the last 100 years or so, that some no longer support this analogy in song of songs - which is an entire discussion)...
that thaand that the eyes of our hearts are enlightened, so we can know the hope of our inheritance... eyes of our hearts refers to a spiritual experience... this is our inner being, also referenced in Eph. 3:16, where the Spirit is working in us... our faith is Spirit and truth... it takes both working together... Paul says he does both when he prays in I Cor. 14:14-15... praying in tongues is a spiritual experience... the peace that passes understanding is a spiritual experience, becoming new creations in Christ is a spiritual experience (2 Cor 5:17)... having our hearts of stone become hearts of flesh (Ez 36:26), having His Spirit dwell in us, is a spiritual experience... I have testimonies of when He has melted my heart, when my heart was getting hard and cold, and aloof and proud, and in less than a moment He melted it, it was not emotionalism, because there wasn't enough time for that, but there were "triggers" that He used... was there dialogue with God during these times... oh yes... they were terrible and beautiful experiences at the same time, and I'm so glad He didn't let my heart stay hard...
King David talks about praising Him with all our "inmost being" ... so that our youth is renewed like the eagles - that sounds like a spiritual experience... that "deep rooted assurance" of faith mentioned somewhere earlier (i think it's referred to in HC Q&A 23), is a spiritual experience - it's that you know that you know in your inner being through a gift of the Spirit, even though there is no tangible "faith" to show other than through our actions...
those are just a few examples from scripture that I can think of off the top of my head...
Hebrews 6 talks about the elementary teachings, which includes faith in God (v1), and growing/maturing beyond that... I know this is a difficult passage with various interpretations, and maybe you interpret this differently, if so I would be interested in knowing how you view this...
as for "hiding" our works, interestingly Matt 5 tells us we are a light on a hill, and we are not to cover it up...let your light shine before men SO THAT others may see our good deeds and praise our Father in heaven... they are for HIS GLORY!!!
Posted in: One is the Loneliest Number
being "all alone" is such a common method of the enemy to bring discouragement and hopelessness... I'm reminded of Ms. Martha's pity party in Luke 10:40, "...alone" or "...by myself?" can relate at times and have indulged in similar pity parties... but as believers we can recognize it for what it is...
LORD, continue to connect those who are reaching out in loneliness, that feel isolated and like they are the only ones that are struggling with something, we pray for Divine connections that only You can orchestrate, and give you the glory and thanks, in the Name of Jesus.
Posted in: Why Are Believers Not Declaring the Gospel?
re-reading your posts, Henry, I have another question for you... how did you know you were called to be a pastor (maybe I'm wrong about you being a pastor, but that's what i understand from you "entering the ministry" in your 20's)? You say God has never told you what call to take, or what car to buy... so then when pastors are "called"... what do they mean?
Posted in: An Open and Shut Case
FYI... that quote is not from Augustine, although that is a common misconception...
see link...
http://theflamingheretic.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/in-essentials-unity/
Posted in: Why Are Believers Not Declaring the Gospel?
Well Henry, I agree that as the Church, we need to focus and proclaim more of Jesus and His sacrifice - that's why I love the Moravians and Count Zinzendorf... yesterday's devotional by Oswald Chambers in his My Utmost for His Highest also confirmed what you have shared...
but I think there is a place for personal testimonies as well,even in their weak, imperfectness, to encourage fellow believers... recognizing that each testimony is a gift as well, and so giving God the glory... we can have contempt for our part in it, but I think we have to be careful about being contemptuous of what God via the Holy Spirit is doing when He gives us Divine insight/direction/leading/guiding as Scripture tells us He does and will..
in another post you mentioned something about how do we know if it's God or self, or the enemy, and you gave an example of a father killing his children... a simple test of lining it up with scripture would discern that is not God, He is life, He tells us to choose life, He commands us not to kill... but some might argue that God allowed His Son to be killed and so indirectly He killed Jesus, because He could have prevented it... but we know Jesus willingly went to the cross for the joy that was set before Him...
and yes, some/many might use it so they can disregard their own responsibility... I think of the convictions the Spirit has put on my heart, that made sense with Who God is, but were totally counter intuitive from an intellectual perspective... ie giving/tithing whatever you want to call it, particularly in a struggling economy... cutting back on my work, so I could be more available for my family... made NO SENSE economically... by my budget, we should be broke and out on the street, with no assets left... that hasn't happened, although it has been tight for the last several years, but He has been training us in Prov. 3, spending a lot more wisely, and investing in His Kingdom, instead of our earthly kingdom.. it has been a difficult, but incredible journey of trusting Him and drawing closer to Him, we have seen His outpouring of blessing on our lives so many ways, most significantly with Proverbs 3 wealth aka wisdom (v13-18)! So those are my weak and imperfect words, but the amazing journey He gave us, is because of Him and Who He is... for His Glory which includes the supremacy of Christ! (Col 1:18)
Posted in: Deck Chairs?
so the question to me is... to what extent do we need a "restructure"... is it a simpler remodel (which is never simple or convenient) or a more comprehensive rebuild (a lot of work, and stepping on some sacred toes, etc.)? from what I read in the agenda from the task force (the 5 smooth stones example and 5 streams proposal), I don't think they've even hit a remodel level yet (except maybe with the Canadian/binational issues)... so do i dare say, what I read still seemed a lot like re-arranging the furniture? as Mike pointed out, the execution of it will be the telling indicator, so in most ways it's too early to tell...
Posted in: The Unnecessary Pastor
blessings Brother, hope you feel better soon... I don't wish being sick on anyone, but if this is what came out of being sick ... ;)
and bless your heart for being willing to admit this (publicly) as a pastor...
when we pray "less of me, more of You, Jesus"... we do need to be ready for what that might look like when God answers that... because our "toes will get stepped on", we won't be "recognized", won't get the credit, etc.... and our reaction is indicative of our hearts.
one of the things I struggle with in the Church, is pastor idolatry, I did some research on this recently, and was stunned, I hadn't thought about it much before, and then find out that it is a fairly significant issue in the Church...
it is so easy for us to talk about the "dynamic" pastor and his message/ministry, instead of how the "dynamic" Holy Spirit ministered to us through that person. It seems we can often be more drawn to our pastors than to Jesus... we fail to recognize the anointing of the Holy Spirit it seems... instead we are impressed with the dynamic, winsome ways of the person... if we think about it, of course we will say, those are their gifts from the Holy Spirit, that's a basic assumption that doesn't have to be spoken.... but I do struggle that our language when how we talk does not reflect that... we are to acknowledge Him in all our ways (Prov 3:6).
wow, yeah, this does hit on a nerve for me... recently I've been contemplating the structure of worship services, with one person getting most of the focus/attention, and wonder where is the prophetic table where EACH brings something for edification, where ALL will prophesy, so that ALL may learn, and ALL may be encouraged (I Cor 14:26,31 NKJV)... your "community group" gathering sounds like that is where something like that happens more so than the during the Sunday order of worship...
Posted in: The Holy Spirit and the Sermon – A Friendly Reminder For Those Who Preach
Preach the Fire, Brother... I recently read on article on the Holy Spirit from a CRC perspective, and I was surprised at how intensely I reacted to it... it mentioned the Holy Spirit as the "shy Member of the Trinity"... ohhh, it seems He's so misunderstood in our tradition...
Earlier this week I was wrestling with why are some pastors so "anointed" and others just don't seem to have it... one of the conclusions I came to, was it has to do with the pastors openness to the Holy Spirit, his sensitivity and seeking of the Holy Spirit, and that comes through prayer, soaking in the Word, for personal growth, as well as studying for sermons, extended times of worship, purity/holiness and humility. These pastors are walking/operating in their anointing. We need to intentionally recognize the Holy Spirit (not our intellect - although He works through our intellect) as the Source of our gifts. It's a basic assumption, but practically speaking is not being acknowledged. Just wrote something on another thread on pastor idolization... that's an entire topic on its own...
and yes Jesus will be glorifed when the pastors, who ALL have His anointing are operating in it!!! But it takes intentionally pursuing and acknowledging the Holy Spirit, Who will increase one's hunger for the Word, Who will add intensity to our prayer life, and Who will convict us in areas where He's calling us to holiness and purity.
Posted in: The Why in Synod
wow, there's so much to say on this article, so I'll mostly respond to this line BOQ...intuitively, it (prayer summit) feels like a good idea." EOQ
you're right...
that's because it's scripturally Acts 6:4... and it opens the door to the prophetic table mentioned in I Cor 14:26-33 (NKJV)
historically -I think if we are honest with ourselves, prayer and the prophetic gift of the Spirit have not been strong marks of our denomination for various reasons. The extent of our limitations in each area is debatable - I'm not saying these haven't been there at all, because God as a generous and loving Heavenly Father has given us His Spirit to help us, even though we are often unaware and not intentionally seeking Him, and even though we have not been eagerly pursuing ALL the gifts of the Holy Spirit due to cessationism. These gifts include those unexplainable "mystical" promptings that in the natural we have no way of knowing, which it seems often still receive much skepticism, if not outright unbelief that God doesn't do that anymore.
So, Roberts Rules and Church Order is the default method of operations... again, not saying the Spirit doesn't work through these... He does, because of God's generous nature! But there is a more intentional, more purposeful prophetic table of having the Holy Spirit lead, where leaders come together, worship, pray, listen to God and to each other and discern what God is prophetically telling them for this time, this place, this situation, these people...
now do we throw the intellect out? no, wisdom is part of the gifts as well... but sometimes we have let the intellect/man's way/human effort/human agency, etc trump the Spirit's way, for various reasons.
I seriously hope we/crc are shifting to a more intentional leading by the Holy Spirit, especially through the prophetic gifting, and that will be released through prayer... If one studies the OT prophets, one key characteristic, is that they were intercessors.
and yes, the face to face interaction/sharpening/testing is very important... I've had wonderful discussions with people on the internet and i'm thankful for those opportunities, but the relationship goes to an entire different level, it is so much more, when I get to meet with them face to face. It is a rich dimension of relationship/fellowship that we cannot experience very well through technology. The face to face connection is priceless!
and yes, it's quite possible, that as (not if ;) the crc continues the prayer summit, it will transition and converge with Synod in some Spirit directed way ;)
would love to engage on the rest of the article, but that's enough for this comment!
DV I will be following synod online again this year...
Posted in: To Glorify God
interesting for a number of reasons, one of the reasons is because one of my prayers has been, LORD, what does it mean/look like to "glory in Your Holy Name" I Chron 16:10...
and yes, I've been "surprised" by the NIV translation more than a few times as well...
studied the Hebrew words for praise, and had a "surprise" on NIV Ps. 149:6, where the translation of the Hebrew word "rowmemah" was not included
and recently did some research the greek words for "minister" and "worship" and "serve" based on Acts 13:2
studied the Names of God, and realized the NIV does not translate YHWH Sabaoth as "Lord of Hosts"... the NIV preface explains why, but I didn't think that was a good reason. I'm not saying that He isn't Almighty, but that is another Hebrew title of El Shaddai which is used for example in Ps 91:1... again, the preface addresses this, but when YHWH Sabaoth is one of the most frequently used titles that God uses for Himself in scripture, I think it's important we know what that Name means!
the "secret place" in Ps 91:1 nkjv is another concept i've studied, and realized the niv uses "shelter"... not a huge difference for many, but to me, it was significant... the Spirit has used both concepts to minister to me and others, but I personally generally prefer "secret place" and that has made a significant difference in my devotional time with Him.