Bev Sterk

Our battle is not against flesh and blood... it's against the enemy, and the Church is the one that is not fulfilling the calling to be on our knees on behalf of those around us, we will be held accountable for our prayerlessness (there are statistics that give us insight on the low level of prayer in the church)...

we have to stop trying to point to society and our ills and think we can fix this with man's ways, because there is something deeper and darker driving this violence...  we have to pray for those who have come in agreement with the enemy through their choices... for God to reveal (including prophetically) these hurting people/lost souls, to bring light alongside of them, so they can escape the dark pit they are in...

Sensitivity to the Holy Spirit, the only True Counselor, through listening and healing prayer is a key, so we can point people to Jesus, His love and mercy and bring healing...  our "rational" reasoning and intellect is not enough, God gave us the authority and power to do so much more, through His Holy Spirit, let's start walking in it more fully... Your will be done LORD, on earth as it is in heaven...  

I wonder how the demonic is involved...

thx. for sharing... good word =)

Again, thank you... I am so glad safe church is dealing with this!!!  Thank God... 

yes, this connection is so important for people to understand, I made this connection a while back as I was praying about, so I'm so glad this is being shared...

we need to know, that when they are coming in agreement with pornography, there are horrible, horrible, results, that i would hope none of us would ever be a part of... i have a friend who goes to asia on missions to expose the human trafficking and help rescue those trapped in it, and the stories of what happens to these women/children, are beyond evil, we would never want that for anyone .. and  we don't want to have any part of this,  we are called to holiness, we are called to take care of the widows and orphans, as many involved in the human trafficking are widows, orphans, the poor, the outcast... Oh God, help us to live up to the calling You gave Your Church, help us to live lives of holiness, help us to step up and be obedient to the calling You gave us to care for the widows, orphans, the poor and the outcast, for Your Glory, for Your Kingdom....

My comment addresses thoughts about whether these confessions are relevant and how we might struggle with them.  I think this thread brings out those concerns, even though maybe it wasn't the primary intent of the article, and maybe these concerns need to be discussed in another thread, but I see questions being stirred up through this discussion.

so one question I have is, where can we discuss our concerns with these confessions?  the areas that we struggle with...without being in danger of being tried for heresy?  or struggling privately with it for many years, and then leaving the denom. because there's no healthy place to discuss our struggles/doubts.  iron sharpens iron, and I think that is something we all want so...

I will risk it here ;)..

   I will ris  I I would say these documents are mostly relevant at a foundational level (although it would be interesting to have a discussion on the doctrine of election, particularly including those from other denominations, because I cringe sometimes when we arrogantly think we are more "right" than other denoms.... Ez. 18:23-32 comes to mind re election, we could have an interesting discussion on infant baptism as well), but my main struggle with these documents, is that there are gaps - that is what can make them irrelevant regarding certain aspects of scripture... 

and so here are a few of my thoughts... 

b4 i start, here's a list of acronyms  =) just in case... PH = Psalter Hymnal, HC = Heidleberg Catechism, Q&A = question and answer, CD = Canons of Dordt, and BC = Belgic Confession

Ok, this thread prompted me to pull out the PH and read through the HC again, a few nights ago, and also read through the CD and BC...   I want to honor the creeds and confessions, and recognize that there is a lot of solid "stuff" (sorry, I'm not going to get too technical) in them and they give a solid foundation to our faith, but there are things I struggle with...  the last section of HC Q&A 80, is one example.  Another aspect I struggle with, is that there are gaps... for example in Q&A 83, 2 keys of the Kingdom are mentioned, I believe there are several and possibly many more keys, such as love and prayer and obedience and ???,but the HC only mentions 2 here...  same  w. Q&A 65, are there more ways that our faith is confirmed?  When we use the catechism, are we only sticking to those 2 points, or are we expanding it to include more?  or do we miss out on other ways, because we just focus on what the catechism gives us?

In the BC, we have support for the offices of pastor, elder and deacon, but what about prophets, evangelists and teachers (and apostles is an entire discussion in itself)?

Then between all of them, I think only the HC briefly mentions the gifts of the Spirit (Q&A51).  But what do those gifts include... What is the gift of prophecy?   What is a word of wisdom through the Spirit?  What is a word of knowledge through the Spirit? 

So, as the prophetic gifting is being stirred up these days, these historic confessions and creeds don't give me a whole lot to connect with on this particular aspect, so in this way they are not relevant.  Make sense?  I hope through the Spirit it does...

so in conclusion, both sides are right... they can be relevant or irrelevant, depending on what we're discussing...

all right, this has opened the door on some other questions, that yes, I think need to be discussed and wrestled with in an honest, open way...  I think that will help bring ownership to what we believe, instead of just getting spoon fed the traditional position, however right that might be.

 

 

 

 

 

 

so we discussed the prophetic a bit at the prayer gathering I was at tonight, and the book "convergence" by Sam Storms was mentioned, it's a book about the convergence of the charismatic and Calvinism ... BOQ...I appreciate the difficult task of trying to communicate to different worlds when you have one foot in both. As the author says, you open yourself up to being shot at from both directions EoQ.

    I Hmmm, I can relate to that... oh what fun =) 

http://www.amazon.com/Convergence-Spiritual-Journeys-Charismatic-Calvinist/product-reviews/0977173909/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 

Jim, I would love a discussion on cessationism - maybe a different thread, as cessationism is an underlying reason why we might not be open to the prophetic.  As Rob alludes to as well, it has been abused, when you get a controlling type leader who abuses it, and a council/congregation that doesn't understand how to test it.   A key test is that the person sharing the "insight" is open to having it tested.  If they aren't then, that's a pretty indicator that it might not be the LORD. 

It seems there are so many misunderstandings surrounding the prophetic, and having a 500 year tradition of cessationism is significant, I think much more so, than we realize.  For example, if J Calvin is considered to be the "theologian of the Holy Spirit", and yet was a cessationist, that does not make sense to me (I'm going to do some research on that)... 

The good news, is we/crc do have a strong leadership structure in place, instead of a monarchy type arrangement, and we/crc do have strong foundational confessions to keep us together, and as believers, we do all have the same Holy Spirit, so if we are listening to Him together, theoretically, we will come together on whatever issue or question we might have... 

I am currently studying the prophets and their prayer life, and seeing a pretty strong correlation...

anyway, lots of food for thought, am very interested in a discussion regarding cessationism/the prophetic for some good sharpening