I grew up in the CRC, and am still here, along with my family. I'm married to Daryl, who has a construction business. I had a CPA license for 10 or so years, then I added EX to the front, and MOM to the back, so now I'm an EX CPA, MOM =). I am MOM to Duncan, Ian and Samantha. Our family also owns a raspberry farm, and in the summers we get to work out there together.
Hi John... there's a biblical trend with children that I find very disturbing... Aaron's sons offered unholy fire and were killed, Eli's sons also were disobedient, Samuel's boys didn't do any better, David's kids were not a model family (at all)... and the list goes on... what was the disconnect between godly father and ungodly son... I've been pondering this for a while, and I'm not making much progress... (this was suppose to be a reply to an earlier post on 7.23.12, but it looks like I didn't reply the right way)
keep asking questions like these, John! sharpen and challenge us to think about what God intended leadership to look like... as a crc task force is currently looking at the culture and structure of our denomination, I hope they are asking similar questions... Would love to hear any thoughts from others on the points/questions John brings us through his comment here...
smiles =)... Karl, maybe start with sharing the book with other crc leaders in your area that are probably like minded. meet for coffee to discuss the book, pray together seeking His guidance for where God wants you to start. i'm thrilled you are 'thinking' such thoughts!! Will keep praying into this "concept" =)
Karl, I think you are on the right track with what the Holy Spirit just might be up to =)! I attended my first classis as an observer just a few weeks ago, and what you are sharing lines up with what God put on my heart there. I see the timing of your post, as quite a quick answer to some of the prayers the LORD put on my heart then. I will confirm starting with possibly an hour (or more =) of worship & prayer. He put that part on my heart last night at a crc reformation gathering, and so when you shared that today, i believe He's confirming that piece =)
I am excited about the possibilities for our pastors and elders as they sense His leading and guiding, through His Holy Spirit. Keep it up, would love to hear where this goes =)
Good thoughts... enjoy reading your perspectives on this... iron sharpening iron is one of my favorite proverbs, and sometimes it's hard work to wrestle through some of this and figure out what your thoughts are on it, but oh, it is so worth it when the break through comes and you get fresh insight and understanding on something... how precious are Your thoughts, LORD, totally worth the searching and sharpening.
that faith is our work, triggered a memory of reading that in scripture somewhere, but the closest thing I can find right now is Rom 4:5; but it seemed like it was more directly stated than that verse... something like, that is our work, our faith... maybe it was 2 Thess. 1.11 NKJV or 1 Timothy 1:4 NIV... but our "work" definitely includes obedience, whatever that might look like for each person. Definitely the universal calls to obedience such as the 10 commandments - those are a given call for every believer, but also the direct personal calls of Holy Spirit promptings for very specific leading and guidance from Him to carry out specific tasks... like a call to become a pastor or missionary, that's not everyone's call, but it is a personal call for some, or simply a call to pray for someone as directed by the Spirit, maybe a call to fast for a certain time with a specific focus, or a call to worship instead of watch the super bowl, some calls are once in a lifetime and some are for your lifetime, and some are for a season.
that faith is a gift of the Spirit is 1 Cor. 12:9. I agree that to a degree we all have faith, but there are some with an extraordinary measure of faith as a gift from the Holy Spirit... I have been digging into this passage on the gifts from the Holy Spirit a lot as I'm working on getting better understanding of these gifts, particularly the supernatural aspect of them, as that has been a gap in my training... I feel this has been an area where we (CRC) have struggled due to our cessationist tradition, and now we are still very cautious and I often find people in the conservative congregations quite skeptical of any miraculous, "supernatural" manifestation of these gifts... with a polite response of "that's interesting". So I'm always interested when these gifts are brought up in the CRC...hehehehe :)
but back to rewards and motivations, a sermon by Paris Reidhead, an evangelist/revivalist during the 1950-70's, has a very interesting sermon titled... "10 shekels and a shirt", and how a trip to Africa really reversed his whole perspective on his motivation to do good works (on page 5). I'll post the link.. (looks like you can probably even read it in Dutch =)
basically, our motive becomes about that we are Jesus' reward, that our souls are Jesus' reward (Rev. 22:12/Is. 40:10/ I Cor. 15:23), and He deserves the reward for His suffering, that becomes our motive for being obedient, because He is deserving of it and no less (Philippians 2:5-11)... every knee will bow and every tongue will confess whether they are grateful or not... and since we are grateful, we can start now!
I don't think it's wrong if our motives are the rewards...maybe that's a starting place for believers and that could be why it's mentioned several times, and then as we grow in our faith, the LORD works in our hearts as we mature in our walk with Him, and it will become more about His reward than ours. As was mentioned, the Holy Spirit will work on our hearts to convict and correct where we are off. But probably, no matter where you are at on your walk with Him, the thought of rewards is encouraging, that what we are doing is meaningful and eternal... The reward to be with Jesus forever is more than enough, but it's still fun to think about other rewards too! and it helps us focus on what's eternal and what's not... if we thought it didn't make any difference what we do on our journey, we might all be watching Jeopardy or Survivor or playing solitaire most of the time instead of being salt and light in the world, or think that our hour or two on Sunday with Him is enough to show our gratefulness and the rest of the week is for whatever we want. But we know we will be held accountable for what we have been given.
So, let's invest our treasures in heaven/eternity/Jesus.... for there our heart will be also.
there is quite a bit happening in building unity between pastors/churches/ministries in the county. I like that you keep bringing up "make every effort to pursue unity"! I will confirm that I believe God is asking us to be "intentional", "purposed in the Spirit" (Acts 19:21 NKJV)
Prayer seems to be a significant key. I am involved with the Light of the World Prayer Center, which is a county wide prayer center on a crc campus =), but with a variety of denominations/local churches involved. Every month we have about 20-30 of the youth pastors come together for lunch and prayer together and out of that a college focused gathering started last fall with over 50 salvations in the first several months, and usually about 200-300 students coming together once a week.
We have about 50 senior type pastors from the county that are starting to come together for fellowship and prayer. (i'm not sure if it's once a month or once a quarter, but we're praying toward it becoming monthly)
We are working toward having 24/7 worship and prayer going on at several different levels in the county. One level, is we have over 30 churches signed up to cover one full day each month in prayer with specific prayer requests from what we call the 7 spheres ( church, family, government, business, education, health care, and media), so all the churches involved are praying the same thing. Each church can add or edit the requests as fitting for their congregation. We have seen some powerful results in decrease of crime and abortion in our county, and increase of adoption and key drug busts with high level dealers as well as exposing human trafficking involvement.
The second level is that we will have 24/7 worship and prayer on site at the prayer center as well. We have just over 100 hours and are struggling with filling the night watch. At the prayer center once a month, we have 24 hours of continual worship in 12 - 2 hour sets, where different worship teams from various local churches come and lead a set for 2 hours. Each of these "burns" have a specific focus.
a third level is that some of the bigger churches can cover 24/7 with their own church. The one church that we know is doing this has 200 people signed up for 1 hour each week.. wow!!!
In 2 of the county towns we have "seek God for name of town" prayer gatherings, and these are cross denominational as well. This has been interesting as we start to put pieces together of what God has in mind for that region, and we are seeing some convergence of ministry through this. It's the closest thing I've found to a "prophetic table" in the church. The other believers involved are open and sensitive to the listening prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit, and we've had many, many confirmations at this gathering.
The prayer center, (and bless his heart, my pastor does this as well) make a point of praying on behalf of other churches in the area. One of our key requests is that a Spirit of prayer will be poured out in the Church that the level of prayer in the county will increase, and that our congregations will become "houses of prayer". We are also just starting to pursue unity between various ministries... ie. connecting 3-5 different college focused minstry leaders so they can connect with each other and encourage each other and pray together.
the local food pantry is the local crc churches (7 of them) working together, but with many volunteers from other churches as well as donations from every one, schools, churches, AWANA, various ministries, civic groups, etc. The cool thing, is with the spiritual foundation, the gospel is part of the ministry =) !!
We do still run into an attitude from some of this is my territory, and I'm not letting anyone else in, don't step on my toes. the spirit of competition or of fear =( as well as some other discouraging stuff, but that's ok, we know we are in a battle, and it's not against flesh and blood.
the prayer center was recently asked to do a video testimony on the unity that is going on here in Whatcom County, as it seems to be unique. We had a gentleman from Tennessee come visit to see what was going on here, and he sponsored the cost of the video, which was huge (Michael Lienau, who filmed the first Transformation video with George Otis is doing the filming). The testimony will be used at the World Prayer Assembly in Jakarta Indonesia this May, where thousands of prayer leaders from around the world will be gathering. Amazingly, the only requests from the organizers for such presentations from the US were us (we are just a little prayer center) and the Kansas City IHOP. Our executive director will be sharing at the assembly on how God is increasing unity in Whatcom County. It's not a program, it's prayer. It's listening and obeying what we sense to be His leading, and we are experiencing some powerful fruit from our prayer times.
I'm sure I've missed lots as this is just from my perspective and sphere of influence, but these are a few things God is doing here to increase unity in His Bride!
I'm excited about the crc prayer summit this spring... I think that could be a key gathering for the direction of the crc as part of His Bride!
yes, I'm grateful for how God is using Moses in the crc to help encourage prayer (#4), the recent prayer summit was a beautiful testimony of one piece of how God is answering that prayer in our denomination... thank You Jesus, for what you are doing in the crc, as part of Your Bride...
we are humbled as well... there is so much potential not only for Whatcom County (yes, we are in the NW corner of WA and includes Bellingham and Lynden) but for His Church everywhere, and it seems like we are just on the front edge as we are getting more and more "prophetic" pieces of what God wants for this area. It's when we connect with other believers from different congregations in the area that the pieces start coming together and we see a similar focus that God isn't just giving to one congregation, but to His Body in the area. Each area has it's own unique flavor, struggles, needs, and I think it's important each area seeks His leading for that particular region. He's an infinitely creative God, and so I don't think He's going to give us cookie cutter "programs" that we can "market", for how He wants to move in each area, but He is going to ask us to seek Him in prayer first. He wants everyone to come to Him in prayer instead of just copying what worked somewhere else.
Prayer is a key for being in alignment with and sensitive to Him. He's not going to let us get away, anymore, with doing it "our own way" and avoiding time with Him (we (the prayer center) have found significant prayerlessness in the North American Church =(, Pentecostals do a little better than traditional denominations, with many spiritual leaders (95% is the statistic from one survey) spending 5 minutes or less a day in prayer). His command is to love Him first with heart, soul, mind and strength, and then love our neighbor. We are in danger of flipping these 2 in priority with the emphasis on loving our neighbor through "social justice", the "social" gospel, and being "busy" with justice issues. We have to keep those commands in the right order. Dan, getting these 2 reversed is so subtle, because justice is biblical, but not if it's coming before our love relationship with Him, not if we are doing justice out of our own efforts and using our busy-ness to avoid spending time with Him.
We have found that when a ministry is "birthed" in prayer (and this includes hours of laboring as part of the time spent in His Presence, not just a few minutes here and there and not just "God bless these ideas"), the fruit is night and day difference beyond other efforts that did not come from the labor of prayer and having our relationship with God first. I hope that makes sense, as it's a complicated and subtle distinction, but one that we are finding is key. We (north american believers) intellectually know prayer (relationship with God) is important, but we do not practically live it. One of the lines from the movie "night at the museum, the Smithsonian" is General Custer says. "We're Americans, we don't plan, we do!" What I believe is the case for many north american believers is "we don't pray, we do!" and I've been there myself for about 20 years. we're good at being Miss Marthas - she's so practical and efficient, and struggle with "wasting" time in His Presence as Miss Mary chose to do.
again, there is so much potential. Just last fall, He blew us away through prompting us to ask a simple question that ends up potentially impacting thousands of believers thousands of miles away in Indonesia, with potential to bring unity between the charismatic and reformed streams. There's no way we could have coordinated that with our own efforts, and with a simple question, it opened doors and made connections that could only be Divinely orchestrated.
hmmm... another scripture with a similar concept to the Matt. 16:27 that has been on my heart re the judgment is in I Cor.3 where our work will be revealed for what's eternal and what's not, with great regret for investing in what is not and some reward for what does make it through the fire and is eternal.
the reward concept for what we do, is also mentioned in Matt. 6:4 with giving, 6b with prayer, 18 with fasting, and 19-21 and Luke 6:35 as well as several other places, so at some point between now and eternity this is going to be determined somehow. and then we have the whole crown concept, where we receive crowns for various reasons. From my perspective, I feel like we in the CRC kind of have had a disdain for the reward aspect of good works... and that we're not too focus on them at all, just the fact that we are grateful for our salvation - which of course we are... so I'm not sure why scripture mentions the concept if that's not suppose to be a motivator at all. I know the reformed position is that all our good works are out of gratitude for salvation... but again, I'm not sure why scripture brings rewards up at all - let alone in several places, if we're not suppose to be influenced by the idea.
As far as I understand, the Book of Life is what we're thankful that our names our written in because that means we have salvation through Christ. The other books are our works which will also be judged and if they are not eternal (hay, wood, straw) they will be burned up and we will suffer loss (we will have regret), but the believer will still have salvation because they believed in Jesus and their name is in the Book of Life. But if our works are eternal (silver, gold, precious stones) we will receive some reward according to our labor (I Cor. 3:8). As far as I understand our sin and our works are 2 different things... because our sins are gone as far as the east is from the west, so Praise God, we never have to see those ugly things again... Now as far as the works are concerned... what's eternal? the Word of God, so knowing and treasuring the Word of God in our hearts is eternal, I believe prayer is at least partially eternal based on the prayer bowls in Rev. 5. Our relationship with Jesus is eternal, people's souls are eternal, per Matt. 6, giving, praying and fasting (haven't I mentioned fasting on another post) have the potential of reward... not sure if it's eternal or not... Again, the CRC, at least in my experience, stays away from any reward idea other than salvation which of course isn't a reward but a gift, and our reward should be hell, that's what we deserve for our sin - which is true. So can't say I remember too many, if any sermons or teachings on rewards other than we shouldn't do things focusing on the reward, but simply out of gratitude.
I do think about how I'm spending my resources, ie time, energy, finances, whether they are temporal or eternal, but, as far as end times stuff, I find the discussions interesting, but my very simple position, is whatever happens - whether it's pre, post, or mid trib, pre, post, or no millenial, rapture, or none of the above, I trust God - He promises He will not leave or forsake me and He will watch over me, including every hair on my head, and so I will be ready every day so that when that time comes for me I'm ready. I'm wearing His garments of salvation, and His Robes of righteousness and ready for that wedding supper of the Lamb - King Jesus.
Ok, definitely interested in anyone else's understanding of these concepts.... so thank you Mr. Vander Zee for being brave in bringing up this "iron sharpening iron" discussion...
Posted in: So What Is "Prophetic"?
Hi John... there's a biblical trend with children that I find very disturbing... Aaron's sons offered unholy fire and were killed, Eli's sons also were disobedient, Samuel's boys didn't do any better, David's kids were not a model family (at all)... and the list goes on... what was the disconnect between godly father and ungodly son... I've been pondering this for a while, and I'm not making much progress... (this was suppose to be a reply to an earlier post on 7.23.12, but it looks like I didn't reply the right way)
Posted in: So What Is "Prophetic"?
keep asking questions like these, John! sharpen and challenge us to think about what God intended leadership to look like... as a crc task force is currently looking at the culture and structure of our denomination, I hope they are asking similar questions... Would love to hear any thoughts from others on the points/questions John brings us through his comment here...
Posted in: Spiritual Discernment at Ecclesiastical Assemblies
smiles =)... Karl, maybe start with sharing the book with other crc leaders in your area that are probably like minded. meet for coffee to discuss the book, pray together seeking His guidance for where God wants you to start. i'm thrilled you are 'thinking' such thoughts!! Will keep praying into this "concept" =)
Posted in: Spiritual Discernment at Ecclesiastical Assemblies
Karl, I think you are on the right track with what the Holy Spirit just might be up to =)! I attended my first classis as an observer just a few weeks ago, and what you are sharing lines up with what God put on my heart there. I see the timing of your post, as quite a quick answer to some of the prayers the LORD put on my heart then. I will confirm starting with possibly an hour (or more =) of worship & prayer. He put that part on my heart last night at a crc reformation gathering, and so when you shared that today, i believe He's confirming that piece =)
I am excited about the possibilities for our pastors and elders as they sense His leading and guiding, through His Holy Spirit. Keep it up, would love to hear where this goes =)
Posted in: Spiritual Discernment at Ecclesiastical Assemblies
Hey Karl... it was a delight to meet and share lunch with you at the prayer/Holy Spirit conference in Holland a few weeks ago...
this was the Leadership and Listening book I was referring to... hopefully now that rings a bell again =)
Posted in: The 2 Judgements
Good thoughts... enjoy reading your perspectives on this... iron sharpening iron is one of my favorite proverbs, and sometimes it's hard work to wrestle through some of this and figure out what your thoughts are on it, but oh, it is so worth it when the break through comes and you get fresh insight and understanding on something... how precious are Your thoughts, LORD, totally worth the searching and sharpening.
that faith is our work, triggered a memory of reading that in scripture somewhere, but the closest thing I can find right now is Rom 4:5; but it seemed like it was more directly stated than that verse... something like, that is our work, our faith... maybe it was 2 Thess. 1.11 NKJV or 1 Timothy 1:4 NIV... but our "work" definitely includes obedience, whatever that might look like for each person. Definitely the universal calls to obedience such as the 10 commandments - those are a given call for every believer, but also the direct personal calls of Holy Spirit promptings for very specific leading and guidance from Him to carry out specific tasks... like a call to become a pastor or missionary, that's not everyone's call, but it is a personal call for some, or simply a call to pray for someone as directed by the Spirit, maybe a call to fast for a certain time with a specific focus, or a call to worship instead of watch the super bowl, some calls are once in a lifetime and some are for your lifetime, and some are for a season.
that faith is a gift of the Spirit is 1 Cor. 12:9. I agree that to a degree we all have faith, but there are some with an extraordinary measure of faith as a gift from the Holy Spirit... I have been digging into this passage on the gifts from the Holy Spirit a lot as I'm working on getting better understanding of these gifts, particularly the supernatural aspect of them, as that has been a gap in my training... I feel this has been an area where we (CRC) have struggled due to our cessationist tradition, and now we are still very cautious and I often find people in the conservative congregations quite skeptical of any miraculous, "supernatural" manifestation of these gifts... with a polite response of "that's interesting". So I'm always interested when these gifts are brought up in the CRC...hehehehe :)
but back to rewards and motivations, a sermon by Paris Reidhead, an evangelist/revivalist during the 1950-70's, has a very interesting sermon titled... "10 shekels and a shirt", and how a trip to Africa really reversed his whole perspective on his motivation to do good works (on page 5). I'll post the link.. (looks like you can probably even read it in Dutch =)
.http://www.parisreidheadbibleteachingministries.org/
basically, our motive becomes about that we are Jesus' reward, that our souls are Jesus' reward (Rev. 22:12/Is. 40:10/ I Cor. 15:23), and He deserves the reward for His suffering, that becomes our motive for being obedient, because He is deserving of it and no less (Philippians 2:5-11)... every knee will bow and every tongue will confess whether they are grateful or not... and since we are grateful, we can start now!
I don't think it's wrong if our motives are the rewards...maybe that's a starting place for believers and that could be why it's mentioned several times, and then as we grow in our faith, the LORD works in our hearts as we mature in our walk with Him, and it will become more about His reward than ours. As was mentioned, the Holy Spirit will work on our hearts to convict and correct where we are off. But probably, no matter where you are at on your walk with Him, the thought of rewards is encouraging, that what we are doing is meaningful and eternal... The reward to be with Jesus forever is more than enough, but it's still fun to think about other rewards too! and it helps us focus on what's eternal and what's not... if we thought it didn't make any difference what we do on our journey, we might all be watching Jeopardy or Survivor or playing solitaire most of the time instead of being salt and light in the world, or think that our hour or two on Sunday with Him is enough to show our gratefulness and the rest of the week is for whatever we want. But we know we will be held accountable for what we have been given.
So, let's invest our treasures in heaven/eternity/Jesus.... for there our heart will be also.
thanks for the sharpening!
Posted in: We Can Answer Jesus' Prayer — and Article 3 of the Belhar
there is quite a bit happening in building unity between pastors/churches/ministries in the county. I like that you keep bringing up "make every effort to pursue unity"! I will confirm that I believe God is asking us to be "intentional", "purposed in the Spirit" (Acts 19:21 NKJV)
Prayer seems to be a significant key. I am involved with the Light of the World Prayer Center, which is a county wide prayer center on a crc campus =), but with a variety of denominations/local churches involved. Every month we have about 20-30 of the youth pastors come together for lunch and prayer together and out of that a college focused gathering started last fall with over 50 salvations in the first several months, and usually about 200-300 students coming together once a week.
We have about 50 senior type pastors from the county that are starting to come together for fellowship and prayer. (i'm not sure if it's once a month or once a quarter, but we're praying toward it becoming monthly)
We are working toward having 24/7 worship and prayer going on at several different levels in the county. One level, is we have over 30 churches signed up to cover one full day each month in prayer with specific prayer requests from what we call the 7 spheres ( church, family, government, business, education, health care, and media), so all the churches involved are praying the same thing. Each church can add or edit the requests as fitting for their congregation. We have seen some powerful results in decrease of crime and abortion in our county, and increase of adoption and key drug busts with high level dealers as well as exposing human trafficking involvement.
The second level is that we will have 24/7 worship and prayer on site at the prayer center as well. We have just over 100 hours and are struggling with filling the night watch. At the prayer center once a month, we have 24 hours of continual worship in 12 - 2 hour sets, where different worship teams from various local churches come and lead a set for 2 hours. Each of these "burns" have a specific focus.
a third level is that some of the bigger churches can cover 24/7 with their own church. The one church that we know is doing this has 200 people signed up for 1 hour each week.. wow!!!
In 2 of the county towns we have "seek God for name of town" prayer gatherings, and these are cross denominational as well. This has been interesting as we start to put pieces together of what God has in mind for that region, and we are seeing some convergence of ministry through this. It's the closest thing I've found to a "prophetic table" in the church. The other believers involved are open and sensitive to the listening prayer and the leading of the Holy Spirit, and we've had many, many confirmations at this gathering.
The prayer center, (and bless his heart, my pastor does this as well) make a point of praying on behalf of other churches in the area. One of our key requests is that a Spirit of prayer will be poured out in the Church that the level of prayer in the county will increase, and that our congregations will become "houses of prayer". We are also just starting to pursue unity between various ministries... ie. connecting 3-5 different college focused minstry leaders so they can connect with each other and encourage each other and pray together.
the local food pantry is the local crc churches (7 of them) working together, but with many volunteers from other churches as well as donations from every one, schools, churches, AWANA, various ministries, civic groups, etc. The cool thing, is with the spiritual foundation, the gospel is part of the ministry =) !!
We do still run into an attitude from some of this is my territory, and I'm not letting anyone else in, don't step on my toes. the spirit of competition or of fear =( as well as some other discouraging stuff, but that's ok, we know we are in a battle, and it's not against flesh and blood.
the prayer center was recently asked to do a video testimony on the unity that is going on here in Whatcom County, as it seems to be unique. We had a gentleman from Tennessee come visit to see what was going on here, and he sponsored the cost of the video, which was huge (Michael Lienau, who filmed the first Transformation video with George Otis is doing the filming). The testimony will be used at the World Prayer Assembly in Jakarta Indonesia this May, where thousands of prayer leaders from around the world will be gathering. Amazingly, the only requests from the organizers for such presentations from the US were us (we are just a little prayer center) and the Kansas City IHOP. Our executive director will be sharing at the assembly on how God is increasing unity in Whatcom County. It's not a program, it's prayer. It's listening and obeying what we sense to be His leading, and we are experiencing some powerful fruit from our prayer times.
Here's a link to the prayer center website
http://lowpc.org/about
I'm sure I've missed lots as this is just from my perspective and sphere of influence, but these are a few things God is doing here to increase unity in His Bride!
I'm excited about the crc prayer summit this spring... I think that could be a key gathering for the direction of the crc as part of His Bride!
Posted in: Moses Chung's Prayer He Shared With Synod
yes, I'm grateful for how God is using Moses in the crc to help encourage prayer (#4), the recent prayer summit was a beautiful testimony of one piece of how God is answering that prayer in our denomination... thank You Jesus, for what you are doing in the crc, as part of Your Bride...
Posted in: We Can Answer Jesus' Prayer — and Article 3 of the Belhar
we are humbled as well... there is so much potential not only for Whatcom County (yes, we are in the NW corner of WA and includes Bellingham and Lynden) but for His Church everywhere, and it seems like we are just on the front edge as we are getting more and more "prophetic" pieces of what God wants for this area. It's when we connect with other believers from different congregations in the area that the pieces start coming together and we see a similar focus that God isn't just giving to one congregation, but to His Body in the area. Each area has it's own unique flavor, struggles, needs, and I think it's important each area seeks His leading for that particular region. He's an infinitely creative God, and so I don't think He's going to give us cookie cutter "programs" that we can "market", for how He wants to move in each area, but He is going to ask us to seek Him in prayer first. He wants everyone to come to Him in prayer instead of just copying what worked somewhere else.
Prayer is a key for being in alignment with and sensitive to Him. He's not going to let us get away, anymore, with doing it "our own way" and avoiding time with Him (we (the prayer center) have found significant prayerlessness in the North American Church =(, Pentecostals do a little better than traditional denominations, with many spiritual leaders (95% is the statistic from one survey) spending 5 minutes or less a day in prayer). His command is to love Him first with heart, soul, mind and strength, and then love our neighbor. We are in danger of flipping these 2 in priority with the emphasis on loving our neighbor through "social justice", the "social" gospel, and being "busy" with justice issues. We have to keep those commands in the right order. Dan, getting these 2 reversed is so subtle, because justice is biblical, but not if it's coming before our love relationship with Him, not if we are doing justice out of our own efforts and using our busy-ness to avoid spending time with Him.
We have found that when a ministry is "birthed" in prayer (and this includes hours of laboring as part of the time spent in His Presence, not just a few minutes here and there and not just "God bless these ideas"), the fruit is night and day difference beyond other efforts that did not come from the labor of prayer and having our relationship with God first. I hope that makes sense, as it's a complicated and subtle distinction, but one that we are finding is key. We (north american believers) intellectually know prayer (relationship with God) is important, but we do not practically live it. One of the lines from the movie "night at the museum, the Smithsonian" is General Custer says. "We're Americans, we don't plan, we do!" What I believe is the case for many north american believers is "we don't pray, we do!" and I've been there myself for about 20 years. we're good at being Miss Marthas - she's so practical and efficient, and struggle with "wasting" time in His Presence as Miss Mary chose to do.
again, there is so much potential. Just last fall, He blew us away through prompting us to ask a simple question that ends up potentially impacting thousands of believers thousands of miles away in Indonesia, with potential to bring unity between the charismatic and reformed streams. There's no way we could have coordinated that with our own efforts, and with a simple question, it opened doors and made connections that could only be Divinely orchestrated.
Posted in: We Can Answer Jesus' Prayer — and Article 3 of the Belhar
oop s.. forgot to put in this link to this prayer/song on behalf of His Church.
http://network.crcna.org/forums/discussion-networks/prayer-ministry/prayer-church
Posted in: The 2 Judgements
forgot to mention worship as eternal... how about the fruits of the Spirit? and don't our trials and sufferings have some eternal value...
Posted in: The 2 Judgements
hmmm... another scripture with a similar concept to the Matt. 16:27 that has been on my heart re the judgment is in I Cor.3 where our work will be revealed for what's eternal and what's not, with great regret for investing in what is not and some reward for what does make it through the fire and is eternal.
the reward concept for what we do, is also mentioned in Matt. 6:4 with giving, 6b with prayer, 18 with fasting, and 19-21 and Luke 6:35 as well as several other places, so at some point between now and eternity this is going to be determined somehow. and then we have the whole crown concept, where we receive crowns for various reasons. From my perspective, I feel like we in the CRC kind of have had a disdain for the reward aspect of good works... and that we're not too focus on them at all, just the fact that we are grateful for our salvation - which of course we are... so I'm not sure why scripture mentions the concept if that's not suppose to be a motivator at all. I know the reformed position is that all our good works are out of gratitude for salvation... but again, I'm not sure why scripture brings rewards up at all - let alone in several places, if we're not suppose to be influenced by the idea.
As far as I understand, the Book of Life is what we're thankful that our names our written in because that means we have salvation through Christ. The other books are our works which will also be judged and if they are not eternal (hay, wood, straw) they will be burned up and we will suffer loss (we will have regret), but the believer will still have salvation because they believed in Jesus and their name is in the Book of Life. But if our works are eternal (silver, gold, precious stones) we will receive some reward according to our labor (I Cor. 3:8). As far as I understand our sin and our works are 2 different things... because our sins are gone as far as the east is from the west, so Praise God, we never have to see those ugly things again... Now as far as the works are concerned... what's eternal? the Word of God, so knowing and treasuring the Word of God in our hearts is eternal, I believe prayer is at least partially eternal based on the prayer bowls in Rev. 5. Our relationship with Jesus is eternal, people's souls are eternal, per Matt. 6, giving, praying and fasting (haven't I mentioned fasting on another post) have the potential of reward... not sure if it's eternal or not... Again, the CRC, at least in my experience, stays away from any reward idea other than salvation which of course isn't a reward but a gift, and our reward should be hell, that's what we deserve for our sin - which is true. So can't say I remember too many, if any sermons or teachings on rewards other than we shouldn't do things focusing on the reward, but simply out of gratitude.
I do think about how I'm spending my resources, ie time, energy, finances, whether they are temporal or eternal, but, as far as end times stuff, I find the discussions interesting, but my very simple position, is whatever happens - whether it's pre, post, or mid trib, pre, post, or no millenial, rapture, or none of the above, I trust God - He promises He will not leave or forsake me and He will watch over me, including every hair on my head, and so I will be ready every day so that when that time comes for me I'm ready. I'm wearing His garments of salvation, and His Robes of righteousness and ready for that wedding supper of the Lamb - King Jesus.
Ok, definitely interested in anyone else's understanding of these concepts.... so thank you Mr. Vander Zee for being brave in bringing up this "iron sharpening iron" discussion...