Bev Sterk
I grew up in the CRC, and am still here, along with my family. I'm married to Daryl, who has a construction business. I had a CPA license for 10 or so years, then I added EX to the front, and MOM to the back, so now I'm an EX CPA, MOM =). I am MOM to Duncan, Ian and Samantha. Our family also owns a raspberry farm, and in the summers we get to work out there.
Posted in: Classes that Won't Seat Women
Honestly, I think if we were more open to the prophetic gifting of the Holy Spirit, which is clearly biblical to include women in that gifting based on numerous passages, including Acts 2:17-18, that would be a huge boost for our denomination. From my perspective, we seem to be hesitant in gaining further understanding of what that prophetic gifting looks like and how to incorporate it into the structure and culture of our denomination (please let me know if I'm wrong and so maybe not aware of it as I only speak from my experience and knowledge via discussions, the banner, network, and other crc forums). Maybe there should be believers with prophetic gifting included at classis and other governing gatherings? just saying, I'm not seeing a place for this gift to be shared in our current structure, particularly if a woman has this gift.
Posted in: Silence Hides Violence
Bless your hearts Safe Church! thanks for your commitment to making our congregations more aware of these abuses and concerns.
would you consider re-posting this on the SOS page? I think it would be worthwhile adding Nancy's story to that section, if Nancy is Ok with that?
you are appreciated!
Bev Sterk
Posted in: Prayer Summit Reflections
Beautiful and Amen! I think I'm going through withdrawal this week =)...
Posted in: Classes that Won't Seat Women
Ok, been following this thread since it started, all 90+ comments... I made one comment early on (April 14), but no one touched it and I'm baffled when it seems like such an obvious answer to me, so I'm very curious why (or so it seems) no one is interested in pursuing the prophetic gifting of the Holy Spirit.
I will state it again, using this phrase from one of Dawn's posts on 4.19.12 at 2:32 whatever time zone that might be..
BOQ...So one piece of advice I have for the CRC is to figure out how to build up the structures that build up people, not the ones that deny them a seat at the table. EOQ. EOQ
So, I mention the prophetic "table" again... Scripture (I Cor. 14:1-5,12) tells us we are to eagerly desire this gift, which I'm not seeing this in the crc to any extent (yet), and then that this gift is used primarily for strengthening, building up, edifying and encouraging the Church, the Bride of Christ. Acts 2/Joel 2 clearly states it is for male and female, sons and daughters, all flesh, young and old, I don't think anyone can argue that point.
It seems the prophetic table is an open door for women, but for whatever reason, we/crc are hesitant/resistant to walk through that door.
As was mentioned, we have bigger problems than women and classis, even though it is a significant and sensitive underlying one. We desperately need the power of the Holy Spirit, which has been significantly lacking for a variety of reasons in the crc (and it seems other denoms similar to crc). It will not matter if my voice as a woman is heard, when we are not hearing the Holy Spirit to any significant extent. The Holy Spirit's one "thought" given to His Church through the gift of prophecy can easily trump a thousand human thoughts.
Am I saying that we don't have the Holy Spirit? No, I'm saying we haven't been listening to Him very well.
Posted in: Classes that Won't Seat Women
Yes, I will further clarify, as I have found the prophetic gifting can cause a lot of misunderstandings, and so clear communications is very important... I understand that the Holy Spirit will not doing something new that's not in scripture or that breaks with the teaching and actions of Jesus. That is a primary test of whether a prophecy is from the Spirit or not. The Spirit will not contradict Scripture and the character of God.
The prophetic gifting is of course not dependent on a woman holding office, just like any other gift is not dependent on that.
e Paul VK's original question asked how can complementarian classis encourage women to use their gifts in classis?
When we recognize that you don't have to "hold office" to have the spiritual gift of prophecy, then women should be able to operate in this gift somehow for the edification of the church at a local level, and at a classis level and beyond?... I don't think the Holy Spirit will give women prophetic insight just regarding the kitchen and the children (I'm being a bit snarky here =). At this point in our structure, there is no official way for women in a complemantarian structure to share the prophetic insight they receive from the Holy Spirit. There is no table that they are welcome at in this way. Now, there are of course ways that these insights can be shared, but it is informal and lacking structure and often, very limited. I submit that we need to set a table, where women are invited and welcome to share and test what is being received from the Holy Spirit through the gift of prophecy in regards to the church, at whatever level, whether they hold office or not. Again, I see this gifting as an open door for women to be a part of building up the Church, whatever their "official" role in the church might be, whether the congregation/classis is complementarian or open to women in office.
I hope that helps clarify?
Posted in: Classes that Won't Seat Women
Thanks Paul...
BOQ... The CRC, and most modern churches have done little work on prophesy, the gift or the office. It's a good thing to work on. EOQ pvk
that is my frustration, if the gift of prophecy (and possibly the office of prophet) is a key to building and edifying the Church (and I believe it is per I Cor. 14), and we/crc/modern church are so unfamiliar with it, then of course our congregations/denominations/the Church is going to be struggling. So why aren't we pursuing it more intentionally,with eagerness, instead of trying to use other "fix it" models.
I do plan on continuing study and training in this area, and have studied it to some extent, thanks to the charismatics, even though John McArthur, a cessationist, calls it "chaos"... that's why testing is so important... I John 4:1; I Thess. 5:19-21. Yes, it has to line up with scripture, that is the key test, but there often are other "confirmations" that God gives in addition to it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us... (Acts 15:28)
I know there is much confusion on this gifting, and our cessationist tradition has not helped. The interesting thing to me is that those who like to interpret prophecy as limited to preaching and teaching are often the same ones who say women cannot preach, but if prophecy is preaching, then Acts 2 would allow them to preach. I'm not saying that's my interpretation of prophecy, but it is an interesting contradiction, we can't say prophecy is preaching and then say women are not to prophesy/preach... it cannot be both. So that should tell us we need to get a better understanding of what prophecy is...
btw, congrats on having your thread be the most commented on the network now!! =)
Posted in: Is Conversion to Jesus Enough?
it is enough, but barely, as one escaping through the flames and suffering great loss/regret at what they have missed (I Cor. 3:15). not saying I understand it since heaven is perfect, but the attitude of as long as I'm in heaven, that's all that matters, so I can do whatever I want because I'm covered by the grace of Jesus, will cause deep regret at some point...
So, I see the first conversion becoming Loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and then the other 2 as living out loving your neighbor as yourself. But having said that, I'm sure we can work on all the areas.
- our love relationship with God, the intimacy factor, our love for Jesus, as we are His Bride, that I find makes people uncomfortable. Song of Songs, was for many centuries seen as an allegory of God and Israel, Christ and His Bride, but as the rational - modern world view took precedence, it became viewed as simply a human love story. Now as we've moved into a post-modern view, maybe it's time to re-think this book of the Bible. I will admit, I haven't wrapped my head around it yet, other than chapter 8:6-7, and that was with help, but (spiritual) intimacy with Christ, that we are His Bride, and what that looks like, is one of the concepts I'm focusing on and asking God to help me better understand, whether that's with intellectual and/or experiential knowledge.
It seems to me we have been emphasizing the loving our neighbor (ie doing justice, being missional) over and above how to walk humbly with our God, how to love Him with all our being, the spiritual formation (the intimacy/emotional) aspect. I see this in the statistics of peoples prayer life, and how much time on average/day is spent in prayer, as well as several comments made to me about the biblical illiteracy in the church, as well as other statistics that show the prevalence of addictions such as porn in the church, and in choices we make of how we spend our resources, as well as a number of other indicators.
and that leads me to how much time/resources we spend on what's eternal and what's not, and probably most of us (including myself) can cut out some non-eternal activities, and replace them with more quiet time with the LORD, or more time in worship, or more of those good works He's prepared for us in advance.
so that's my perspective from the pew =)
Posted in: Family Faith Talk
amen John... Courageous shared a powerful and priceless message... One of the things that I believe (and agree with John) needs to be restored is the "family altar", that families make an intentional effort to gather together to pray, share and read and discuss scripture. I am not finding this going on at any significant level (via a variety of ways), so unfortunately, the 85% would seem to be fairly accurate from my experience and discussions. I believe Cheryl Saks (Prayer Saturated Church) is working on a book about this, and not sure if it's out yet or not. Many have the tools, just are not making the time in often already over-loaded and busy schedules. It is about our priorities.
Posted in: An Anthem for Black Friday
Hey Ken... good to see you back on here... thanks for pointing us back to the basics of loving God 1st, and then neighbors. Amen, Amen!
I loved Doug's comment that he was "richer" for staying, and obviously not referring to his portfolio value, but richer in relational love for his neighbors and richer in experience (I'm thinking in trusting God and His ways is part of that), and in being obedient to God's call for his family. That's God's economy. It's eternal treasure.
I think what Doug shared is one way Acts 2:42-47 looks in today's culture.
I also had to think about going against everyone's advice some more. I got a kick out of it because it is going against conventional "wisdom", and it made sense in a higher than the heavens God way (Is.55). But it was also interesting and unusual because generally (but not always) the Holy Spirit will confirm significant decisions like that through other (generally Spirit led, but not always the case) people. So as I'm studying guidance by the Holy Spirit, and His ways of confirmation, I will admit that that is unusual, and I'm glad you felt compelled enough to follow through. I am curious about the process of your decision 10 years ago as well. that fascinates me! That helps me understand how the Holy Spirit "prompts"/guides us in many different ways. I know what I've experienced, but i enjoy hearing and learn from listening to the "process" others went through as well. Again, the 2008 timing is very interesting to me as well!
I know each of these specific testimonies are not what everyone or even many are called to, but I hope that by sharing them, it will inspire other believers to take that step of faith, whatever it might look like in their life that the Spirit is putting on their heart at this time, and these stories and God's goodness through them, will encourage whomever it might be, to possibly be a little more (do i dare say) "radical" about their faith and lifestyle. =). To go beyond human wisdom, man's understanding (Prov. 3:5-6) and walk in step with His Spirit, to follow that prompting that you are pretty sure is from the LORD!
Posted in: What Exactly is High Praise?
Hi Adriel, so sorry I missed your response from last June... Thank you so much for sharing a bit of your experiences and insight here! I love that you have been helping the Coit congregation grow in understanding of the rich spectrum of worship and praise. I love the Hebrew praise words that give us permission to physically express how we love our heavenly Father with all our heart, soul, mind AND STRENGTH! so good!
Blessings to you on your journey, would love an update on how God is working in your life as you serve His Kingdom!
HE is MIGHTY to save, HE DELIGHTS in you and REJOICES over you with LOUD, EXUBERANT SINGING! Zephaniah 3:17 The LORD your God is among you; He is mighty to save. He will rejoice over you with gladness; He will quiet you with His love; He will rejoice over you with singing." (biblehub.com)
Posted in: An Anthem for Black Friday
Doug, again, thanks for sharing! Like Karl shared, your post(s) continues to triggers thoughts =) for me as well! I'm chuckling as I think of Ps. 37:4 - Delight yourself in the LORD, and He will give you the desires of your heart in connection with you (a farm boy) having the "opportunity" to buy a tractor and then using it for Kingdom purposes =). I get a kick out of God's sense of humor =) and giving us a win-win opportunity. I know how much fun I have driving tractor in our berry field after being in the professional "field" for about 20 years. Oh, LORD, open the eyes of our hearts to see how You want us to use the abundant blessings/talents you have given us for Your Kingdom purposes.
Another testimony that I was reminded of was, how the LORD has given my husband jobs where the people he is working for pay him almost immediately. We have a construction business, and since 2008 (and before too, but it has been much more obvious since then), we have seen God do amazing things with lining up work for him, and bringing clients that pay within minutes of getting the bill. Every person we have worked for since last summer has paid in less than 2 weeks, and usually in less than 2 days, and several times the same day! Since 2008, when construction businesses took a significant hit, he has been without work for only 1 hour (which was our fault). We have not advertised, it has all been "word of mouth" so to say. We have seen God's incredible provision and have experienced the wealth God tells us about in Prov. 3:13-18 through living Prov. 3:5-6. Having said that, I think the next several months we are going to be tested again, on whether we will continue to trust in God with all our heart, or be tempted to lean on our own understanding. As many of you might be experiencing yourself, cash flow has been a bit more difficult over the last several years, and we have been at the end of our liquid resources several times, after several years of decreased profitability . Last fall, when we are at a similar place with cash flow concerns, (as I was re-reading this, I just caught the connection, that was about when we had a significant cash flow concern and it was about since that point everyone (construction related) began paying us in less than 2 weeks, thank You LORD! - hindsight is amazing =), anyway, when we were at a similar place with cash flow concerns last Sept., i remember telling God, "I can make cash flow happen 7 different ways" and so we went through my list, and each one was in some way leaning on our own understanding. So, I shared this with another believer and the question was, how do you know that God doesn't want you to use any of those ways? I replied, because each of the reasons He "gave" me trumped mine, and His made more sense in a super rational way. But, as I walked away from that conversation, I prayed, "LORD, if these thoughts are really from You, please confirm it in some way." That was about 4:30 in the afternoon. At 6:30 I received a call from my husband. His parents had just blessed us with a sizable gift to help with the kids' tuition! That was our confirmation. in 2 hours!
So, here we are again, about 14 mos later, looking at a cash flow concern. Somehow God has helped us get through these last 14 mos, and we are going to trust Him to do so again, but my mind is already thinking, well if He doesn't, we can always do "my cash flow plan".... Arghhh!!! I think the LORD is helping me remember how He has come through again, and again, (and I haven't even shared some of the best ones with you yet!) to give us the courage to continue to trust Him with all our hearts!
ok, the other concept that I keep going back to from Doug's post, is that he went against all advice. Because of several other "conversations" I had in the last month and the concept of intentionally seeking the Holy Spirit's guidance being something the LORD is putting on my heart over the last several months, I went to Acts to read about Paul's "decision" to go to Jerusalem. I had been thinking about this story for several reasons,, and thought Paul had to be very compelled to go against prophetic warnings, knowing he would be arrested and possibly killed. So Saturday, I read several chapters of Acts in the NKJV, and the phrase "Paul purposed in the Spirit" (Acts 19:21) caught my attention. This phrase " happened' to catch my attention in a segment of an online sermon i "happened" to come across about 4 weeks ago. That is the only time I recall every having heard this phrase before. I mentioned it yesterday to a believer who has been a part of the crc for 60+ years, and they didn't remember ever hearing it before. Another version stated he was "determined in the Spirit" and one was "compelled" by the Spirit. So, not sure how that ties in with "stuff", but I always find it interesting how the LORD will use someone's thoughts to trigger other thoughts that He wants us to possibly pursue =). A rabbit trail or the Spirit? So I would love to hear anyones' thoughts on intentionally seeking the Spirit's guidance or what "purposed in the Spirit" might look like for today! As well as more testimonies and insights on how Acts 2:42-47 looks like for us today!
Posted in: What Exactly is High Praise?
Thank you Rich, for digging into the Logos/Word some more on this =) and sharing your thoughts and insights...
there's a time for each - quiet, meditative worship, and loud, exuberant worship, and every level on the continuum between the 2... it's like you said, we/crc seem to hang out on the quieter end, other than maybe when we hear the organ =)
here's something I posted somewhere on the network last year some time, but I'll post it again, because it is a beautiful example of high praise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KX2-J6uS-o