I am not a CRC native. I am one of those under 50 folks who grew up basically unchurched in a Protestant liberal tradition, became a believer in Jesus, and then grew to understand and appreciate that the bible itself matches the disctinctives of Reformed theology. Why? Because the Reformers did all that they could to articulate what the bible taught. Obviously their writings reflect their struggles with those who disagreed with this biblical teaching. This does not make their work mere historical expressions. It does add context to their articulations, but it does not nullify their scriptural observations.
The pathway of "Jesus is Lord" as all we need is well tread. It is the siren call that rings throughout the history of Protestant liberalism. I have lived through and seen the results of such sloppy thinking. If the CRC moves in this direction, we will believe we are being loving by opening the "theological tent" wider. Unfortunately, in opening the front door wider, we will also open the back door and the sides of the tent. Those who are thinking, Reformed, and serious about their faith will leave. It looks like you are willing to have this happen for the sake of progress.
Please read church history! No denomination or group has grown with this mode of operation. Notice how Presbyterians, Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Lutherans, and numerous other denominations have listened to these same words of wisdom. In fact, if you look through their debates on confessions, many pioneers of liberalism stated the very same opinions in the very same words.
This debate is vitally important because it will shape and form who and what the CRC is and will be. Lord help us if we allow such sloppy thinking that pits heart versus head to rule in our denomination. To be Reformed means to articulate and live a theology that balances the heart and head in unity both individually and corporately.
Really? The concept of adoption including the full rights of sons for male and female is offensive? For Paul, the awesome news of the gospel was that all of us, male and female, could share the full rights of sons (Romans 8:14, 19 etc). This means we get the full inheritance! It is a concept that needs to be explained, but not forgotten in a struggle over language. Sonship describes and defines the incredible love given to us in adoption.
This discipleship course is about understanding God's love and grace in Christ so as to apply it to every area of life. In other words, it has nothing to do with "lording it over others." It emphasizes humility brought about by repentance and faith. I struggle to see how such biblical concepts are out of date.
I can positively affirm that the Sonship material has been an incredibly powerful tool of transformation in my life, in the life of my wife, and within my congregation. It has opened the hearts and minds of many to see the radical, life-transforming power of the gospel. It has changed the language of our church to be focused on repentance, faith, forgiveness, reconciliation, and gospel-inspired evangelism. In other words, this discipleship program has brought authentic revival and renewal to a congregation that desperately needed it.
So what does it teach?
1.) Cheer up, you are a lot worse than you think. The first third of the course deals with our need for the gospel. This message is not merely the key to heaven, but the key to authentic Christian living. Theologically speaking, the first third of the course deals with the topic of total depravity so as to pastorally affirm our current need for the gospel. It points to repentance and faith as the true marks of faith. It focuses on how we do so many things to change the subject so we do not have to deal with our need.
2.) Cheer up, God loves you more than you think. The second third of the course deals with the good news of the gospel. It pastorally applies the concept of justification by faith to every area of life. This section continues to probe deep within our hearts to illuminate how the Love of God allows us to give up the idols of control, addiction, anger, and lust which are nothing but cheap substitutes for God's grace and love in Christ.
3.) Cheer up, God can use you more than you can imagine. The last third of the course deals with application of the gospel. The material includes the topics of forgiveness, how to engage in constructive gospel-centered conflict, and gospel-centered evangelism.
All of these topics are firmly within the Reformed faith, but so often we forget them. This discipleship course is a reminder of what adoption is all about.
I thank you all for the comments. I think each comments looks at the question from different angles, and each perspective is important.
Since I wrote this post, I have continued to think about the question of pastor/visionary leader. I think most of us as pastors are not well balanced with both traits. God has formed us in certain ways. We have different personalities, gift mixes, and abilities. As I would tell my Council members as they travelled to Classis meetings, notice how their is a pastor for every situation. We are so different and it shows that there are different ministry contexts for each pastoral type.
Or is there?
This past weekend, I met with the denominations Strategic Planning folks who are looking for feedback from those outside of the denominational offices. They shared that in a CRCNA Pastoral Excellence Survey from 2011 CRC pastors described themselves as having the following top three leadership skills: Listening and encouraging, Communication, and maintaining an non-anxious presence. The same survey shared the lowest pastoral leadership skills as: Stategic Planning, Conflict management, and motivating people to perform at their full potential.
On the surface, these two skills sets/gifting could be seen as dividing between being a Pastor and being a visionary leader. I know one can be a visionary leader with any gift mix! Please do not take offense. That is not my intention.
What I find interesting from the survey is that the CRC culture must promote and encourage those with the top three pastoral leadership skills. What does that mean for how congregations view pastors? What does that mean for our established churches as they look for visionary leadership to help them reach a new generation? What does this mean for our self understanding as we go about the task of being a pastor?
As with others, I appreciate being asked this question. After some thought, I believe I needed to know:
1.) How pastoral ministry functions within different sized churches. Leadership and leadership style differs depending upon the needs of the congregation and different sizes and types of congregations have very different needs. Help trains folks how to diagnose these needs and figure out how their personalities, styles, etc., fit within these congregations. Such thought would also encourage further growth for none of us have the gifts and personalities for every situation.
2.) How to disciple others so they grow in an understanding of how to depend upon Jesus by faith. This includes how to identify and train future leaders.
3.) Particularly for future church planters, how to lead as a bi-vocational pastor. This includes how to use your gifts and skills to find suitable employment, how to set boundaries, and how to fund-raise to supplement personal and church income. I think all signs point to this being a growing trend so folks need to be prepared.
A great question. Sorry for the delay in responding. I did not check the Network for comments until today.
I think all of them are missing at different times and by different groups. If you are a person who states, "I believe in Jesus" but I do not think church is important, then you are missing the gospel community. If you are a person who states, "Christianity is primarily about social action," then you are definitely missing the second leg of the gospel announcement. If you are a person who wished to deny the clear teaching (and experience) of total depravity mixed with the incredible truth of creation as originally good and maintaining vestiges of that goodness, then you are missing the gospel story.
As a historian, I find it interesting that entire churches, denominations, and groups can so over emphasize one of these dimensions of the gospel that they actually lose the gospel. Part of our task as believers is to call these individuals, groups, and churches to repentance and renewed faith in the whole gospel- in other words renewed faith in all three legs of truth.
To be biblically faithful and solidly part of the Reformed tradition, we should hold to all three even if we lean more toward one leg.
Where to start? First, I encourage you to read other articles I have written so as to know that I would not, nor do I think we ever should ignore the fact, the reality, and the clear biblical teaching concerning total depravity. The way you paint it, many Christians have lost the gospel story and the reality of the gospel announcement (to use Wax's terminology). While I might agree, I hope to be more charitable.
What concerns me the most here is your issues with "the justice of God." The way you wrote your response implies to my reading that you believe we ignore the question of the justice of God because we do not like the biblical answer? Is this a correct interpretation of what you are saying?
Personally, I do not have a problem with the biblical answer. We are guilty before a holy God not merely because of our inherited sin, but also because of our willful sin. None of us deserve grace. None. That is why grace is so amazing!
Furthermore, you seem to confuse our experience of this grace, election, evangelism, etc., with God's understanding of all these events. In our experience, we do not know who is "elected" so we are told to proclaim the gospel to all. God has made salvation available to "all" (for example Titue 2:11), which means all types of people. Our experience is one of us turning to God, of us sharing the message of Christ, and of us going out in ministry. Yet, God is the one working, knowing, and leading. Somehow in His sovereign will He is at work building His Kingdom through fallen people like you and me. This is a mystery of the faith. Yet, it is one clearly taught in scripture, affirmed by our confessions, and wrestled with by thoughtful folks.
What does this mean? I will assume, pray, and hope that you are one of those thoughtful folks! Yet, I caution you, as does Nick Monsma, that the way you are stating your questions/objections is itself questionable. Arminius himself merely claimed to be "biblical."
The real goal is to be biblical. We are a confessional church because we believe our confessions describe that the bible teaches. If you do not agree with what the confessions teach as biblical, then we are at a different place in the discussion.
I should have read more before responding to your first post!
To be completely unfair, Your issue is that you are a convinced openness of God proponent who denies total depravity? I gather that in your mind, people are really not "dead" in sin (Ephesians 2:1-3)? Even more to the point, you think God is unjust so Christianity is nothing but a contentious, backward, mean-spirited religion?
While I think you did state these points, I hope you did not mean them! If so, I ask you to consider again what the bible truly teaches about God, about creation, about humanity, and about the condition of the world. Please consider these in light of the promise that God will set all things aright when Jesus returns to make a new heaven and new earth!
I think you have several huge errors in your overall logic. I also think you have several errors in your understanding of "Calvinism" and what the bible teaches.
While there are clear answers to your questions, I fear this is not the forum to answer them sufficiently as it is too public. I would be happy to continue the conversation in a more personal form of correspondence. All we need is for you to wish to continue the discussion and for the ability to figure out how to do this.
Amen Ryan! I do not know you, but it is so good to know someone else is tracking along the same path! The gospel is central to all. It leads us to authentic humility because we recognize our fallenness as well as the incredible love of God for us in Christ making us His children.
In answer to John, this message is what holds together those three streams. Without continual repentance and faith we can fall into dead orthodoxy if we emphasize correct doctrine without a gospel center. Without continual repentance and faith we can fall into old-school Protestant liberalism is we emphasize social action without a gospel center. Furthermore, the gospel propels us outward to share the good news on equal footing with the lost (we all need repentance and faith!), which frees us from the danger of inward-focused pietism.
I thank you for such a clear article! I found it very encouraging.
Dear Henry- I thank you for your comment. You focus on Christ is very refreshing. As I understand you, you wish to emphasize Christ in your witnessing. You are deeply concerned and troubled that I emphasize personal experience over Jesus. You also instruct me that Calvin was very Christ-centered. I can not agree more!
That being said, did you really read the post? Did you wrestle with what I was saying or did you see it as another piece emphasizing personal experience, which you do not wish to do, so you wrote against such an emphasis?
You claim that you see your sin more clearly now than you did years ago. I suffer from the same issue. What can we do? I repent and believe in Christ as my only hope. I immerse myself in the promises of God and find the Holy Spirit not only forgives my sin, but also bestows grace upon me. Such grace is transformative!
John Calvin is not only Christ-centered, but he is also known as the Protestant theologian who "re-discovered" the Holy Spirit. When you tell others about the very real Savior who gave you grace this morning when you got upset with your wife over nothing, you can relate to both believers and unbelievers. You also allow the Spirit to glorify Christ because you bring nothing but sin, while He gives grace and mercy.
You have all the theological pieces, I fear that you just have not quite put them in correct order. You have rightly emphasized Christ, but somehow you have forgotten that repentance and faith are what tie you into the Vine. When you live such repentance and faith, you cannot help but tell others about the One who forgives and loves you. Such a witness is not "me" centered, but Christ-centered.
Please re-read my post (and others within my blog) and tell me if we do not agree in substance even if you prefer to state it a different way.
Again, I thank you for the comment and correction!
Again, I thank you for the clarification and comments. I have taken two days to respond to this post because I wished to think about how to respond or even if I should. As I stated earlier, I thought we were not that far apart. It appeared the only differences were in how we were stating the same thing. I was and am always ready to give you the benefit of the doubt and a generosity in how you state things. Toward the end of you post, you say the same thing. Yet, how you got to your statement of agreement was my point.
I am truly sorry that you had experiences with people who looked down on your spirituality because you had not experienced the HS as they did. Obviously, this is an incorrect understanding of the work of the Spirit. Authentic works of the Spirit promote humility and not pride. They promote a desire to see Christ exalted in all things and not self. Those who use spiritual experience as a club to beat others have fallen into error.
That being said, why would you posit or argue that I was saying this? Do you realize that you insult my intergrity and I also believe the intergrity of the authentic work of the Spirit? You proved you were "right" but in the process you lost me.
Why? Where is the humility? Where is the willingness to listen and engage?
When I said you had the pieces not in the correct order I did not mean theologically. I meant that in sharing with people under age 40 or 45, you were proclaiming the gospel in a way they could not hear it. Why? You did not lead with humility but with a theologial correctness that makes it hard to want to listen to you. I remain persuaded that you did not really listen to me. Was this your goal? Again in charity, I think not!
Witnessing to the reality of Christ to those in our culture- particularly those not raised in the church and under age 40/45- is easy and effective if you begin with humility. Confess your need for a savior. In the process point to Jesus as the only hope. If you see this as theological compromise, then I fear you will not be an effective witness to those important young families, 20 somethings, and teens. You will be "right" but not "all things to all people, that by all means I might save some." 1 Cor. 10:23
Repentance and faith leads to humility. I do pray that you will not see this as a personal attack. It was never intended as such and if you took any of it in that way, I apologize. Please know it was not my intention. My hope in this post and others is to help us learn how to reach out with gospel- and grace-centered evangelism. I believe leading with humility is key. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I am not. I do know that effective outreach is a topic we in the CRC have struggled with for several generations! We need to talk about and learn how to do it.
I thank you for adding to the conversation. I will continue to "put myself out there" so as to advance the conversation further. I am sure I wrong about many things and I hope to continued conversation will help all of us grow in grace so we can see the Kingdom grow through the CRC.
Posted in: Our Confessional Crisis
I am not a CRC native. I am one of those under 50 folks who grew up basically unchurched in a Protestant liberal tradition, became a believer in Jesus, and then grew to understand and appreciate that the bible itself matches the disctinctives of Reformed theology. Why? Because the Reformers did all that they could to articulate what the bible taught. Obviously their writings reflect their struggles with those who disagreed with this biblical teaching. This does not make their work mere historical expressions. It does add context to their articulations, but it does not nullify their scriptural observations.
The pathway of "Jesus is Lord" as all we need is well tread. It is the siren call that rings throughout the history of Protestant liberalism. I have lived through and seen the results of such sloppy thinking. If the CRC moves in this direction, we will believe we are being loving by opening the "theological tent" wider. Unfortunately, in opening the front door wider, we will also open the back door and the sides of the tent. Those who are thinking, Reformed, and serious about their faith will leave. It looks like you are willing to have this happen for the sake of progress.
Please read church history! No denomination or group has grown with this mode of operation. Notice how Presbyterians, Methodists, Disciples of Christ, Lutherans, and numerous other denominations have listened to these same words of wisdom. In fact, if you look through their debates on confessions, many pioneers of liberalism stated the very same opinions in the very same words.
This debate is vitally important because it will shape and form who and what the CRC is and will be. Lord help us if we allow such sloppy thinking that pits heart versus head to rule in our denomination. To be Reformed means to articulate and live a theology that balances the heart and head in unity both individually and corporately.
Posted in: What is "Sonship"?
Really? The concept of adoption including the full rights of sons for male and female is offensive? For Paul, the awesome news of the gospel was that all of us, male and female, could share the full rights of sons (Romans 8:14, 19 etc). This means we get the full inheritance! It is a concept that needs to be explained, but not forgotten in a struggle over language. Sonship describes and defines the incredible love given to us in adoption.
This discipleship course is about understanding God's love and grace in Christ so as to apply it to every area of life. In other words, it has nothing to do with "lording it over others." It emphasizes humility brought about by repentance and faith. I struggle to see how such biblical concepts are out of date.
I can positively affirm that the Sonship material has been an incredibly powerful tool of transformation in my life, in the life of my wife, and within my congregation. It has opened the hearts and minds of many to see the radical, life-transforming power of the gospel. It has changed the language of our church to be focused on repentance, faith, forgiveness, reconciliation, and gospel-inspired evangelism. In other words, this discipleship program has brought authentic revival and renewal to a congregation that desperately needed it.
So what does it teach?
1.) Cheer up, you are a lot worse than you think. The first third of the course deals with our need for the gospel. This message is not merely the key to heaven, but the key to authentic Christian living. Theologically speaking, the first third of the course deals with the topic of total depravity so as to pastorally affirm our current need for the gospel. It points to repentance and faith as the true marks of faith. It focuses on how we do so many things to change the subject so we do not have to deal with our need.
2.) Cheer up, God loves you more than you think. The second third of the course deals with the good news of the gospel. It pastorally applies the concept of justification by faith to every area of life. This section continues to probe deep within our hearts to illuminate how the Love of God allows us to give up the idols of control, addiction, anger, and lust which are nothing but cheap substitutes for God's grace and love in Christ.
3.) Cheer up, God can use you more than you can imagine. The last third of the course deals with application of the gospel. The material includes the topics of forgiveness, how to engage in constructive gospel-centered conflict, and gospel-centered evangelism.
All of these topics are firmly within the Reformed faith, but so often we forget them. This discipleship course is a reminder of what adoption is all about.
Posted in: Pastor and Visionary Leader?
I thank you all for the comments. I think each comments looks at the question from different angles, and each perspective is important.
Since I wrote this post, I have continued to think about the question of pastor/visionary leader. I think most of us as pastors are not well balanced with both traits. God has formed us in certain ways. We have different personalities, gift mixes, and abilities. As I would tell my Council members as they travelled to Classis meetings, notice how their is a pastor for every situation. We are so different and it shows that there are different ministry contexts for each pastoral type.
Or is there?
This past weekend, I met with the denominations Strategic Planning folks who are looking for feedback from those outside of the denominational offices. They shared that in a CRCNA Pastoral Excellence Survey from 2011 CRC pastors described themselves as having the following top three leadership skills: Listening and encouraging, Communication, and maintaining an non-anxious presence. The same survey shared the lowest pastoral leadership skills as: Stategic Planning, Conflict management, and motivating people to perform at their full potential.
On the surface, these two skills sets/gifting could be seen as dividing between being a Pastor and being a visionary leader. I know one can be a visionary leader with any gift mix! Please do not take offense. That is not my intention.
What I find interesting from the survey is that the CRC culture must promote and encourage those with the top three pastoral leadership skills. What does that mean for how congregations view pastors? What does that mean for our established churches as they look for visionary leadership to help them reach a new generation? What does this mean for our self understanding as we go about the task of being a pastor?
Again, I have more questions than answers.
Posted in: Leadership in Ministry Course - Your Input Needed
As with others, I appreciate being asked this question. After some thought, I believe I needed to know:
1.) How pastoral ministry functions within different sized churches. Leadership and leadership style differs depending upon the needs of the congregation and different sizes and types of congregations have very different needs. Help trains folks how to diagnose these needs and figure out how their personalities, styles, etc., fit within these congregations. Such thought would also encourage further growth for none of us have the gifts and personalities for every situation.
2.) How to disciple others so they grow in an understanding of how to depend upon Jesus by faith. This includes how to identify and train future leaders.
3.) Particularly for future church planters, how to lead as a bi-vocational pastor. This includes how to use your gifts and skills to find suitable employment, how to set boundaries, and how to fund-raise to supplement personal and church income. I think all signs point to this being a growing trend so folks need to be prepared.
Posted in: What Is the Gospel?
A great question. Sorry for the delay in responding. I did not check the Network for comments until today.
I think all of them are missing at different times and by different groups. If you are a person who states, "I believe in Jesus" but I do not think church is important, then you are missing the gospel community. If you are a person who states, "Christianity is primarily about social action," then you are definitely missing the second leg of the gospel announcement. If you are a person who wished to deny the clear teaching (and experience) of total depravity mixed with the incredible truth of creation as originally good and maintaining vestiges of that goodness, then you are missing the gospel story.
As a historian, I find it interesting that entire churches, denominations, and groups can so over emphasize one of these dimensions of the gospel that they actually lose the gospel. Part of our task as believers is to call these individuals, groups, and churches to repentance and renewed faith in the whole gospel- in other words renewed faith in all three legs of truth.
To be biblically faithful and solidly part of the Reformed tradition, we should hold to all three even if we lean more toward one leg.
Posted in: What Is the Gospel?
Roger:
Where to start? First, I encourage you to read other articles I have written so as to know that I would not, nor do I think we ever should ignore the fact, the reality, and the clear biblical teaching concerning total depravity. The way you paint it, many Christians have lost the gospel story and the reality of the gospel announcement (to use Wax's terminology). While I might agree, I hope to be more charitable.
What concerns me the most here is your issues with "the justice of God." The way you wrote your response implies to my reading that you believe we ignore the question of the justice of God because we do not like the biblical answer? Is this a correct interpretation of what you are saying?
Personally, I do not have a problem with the biblical answer. We are guilty before a holy God not merely because of our inherited sin, but also because of our willful sin. None of us deserve grace. None. That is why grace is so amazing!
Furthermore, you seem to confuse our experience of this grace, election, evangelism, etc., with God's understanding of all these events. In our experience, we do not know who is "elected" so we are told to proclaim the gospel to all. God has made salvation available to "all" (for example Titue 2:11), which means all types of people. Our experience is one of us turning to God, of us sharing the message of Christ, and of us going out in ministry. Yet, God is the one working, knowing, and leading. Somehow in His sovereign will He is at work building His Kingdom through fallen people like you and me. This is a mystery of the faith. Yet, it is one clearly taught in scripture, affirmed by our confessions, and wrestled with by thoughtful folks.
What does this mean? I will assume, pray, and hope that you are one of those thoughtful folks! Yet, I caution you, as does Nick Monsma, that the way you are stating your questions/objections is itself questionable. Arminius himself merely claimed to be "biblical."
The real goal is to be biblical. We are a confessional church because we believe our confessions describe that the bible teaches. If you do not agree with what the confessions teach as biblical, then we are at a different place in the discussion.
Posted in: What Is the Gospel?
Roger:
I should have read more before responding to your first post!
To be completely unfair, Your issue is that you are a convinced openness of God proponent who denies total depravity? I gather that in your mind, people are really not "dead" in sin (Ephesians 2:1-3)? Even more to the point, you think God is unjust so Christianity is nothing but a contentious, backward, mean-spirited religion?
While I think you did state these points, I hope you did not mean them! If so, I ask you to consider again what the bible truly teaches about God, about creation, about humanity, and about the condition of the world. Please consider these in light of the promise that God will set all things aright when Jesus returns to make a new heaven and new earth!
I think you have several huge errors in your overall logic. I also think you have several errors in your understanding of "Calvinism" and what the bible teaches.
While there are clear answers to your questions, I fear this is not the forum to answer them sufficiently as it is too public. I would be happy to continue the conversation in a more personal form of correspondence. All we need is for you to wish to continue the discussion and for the ability to figure out how to do this.
Posted in: The Gospel Affects Everything
Amen Ryan! I do not know you, but it is so good to know someone else is tracking along the same path! The gospel is central to all. It leads us to authentic humility because we recognize our fallenness as well as the incredible love of God for us in Christ making us His children.
In answer to John, this message is what holds together those three streams. Without continual repentance and faith we can fall into dead orthodoxy if we emphasize correct doctrine without a gospel center. Without continual repentance and faith we can fall into old-school Protestant liberalism is we emphasize social action without a gospel center. Furthermore, the gospel propels us outward to share the good news on equal footing with the lost (we all need repentance and faith!), which frees us from the danger of inward-focused pietism.
I thank you for such a clear article! I found it very encouraging.
Posted in: Today's Compelling Story of Grace
Dear Henry- I thank you for your comment. You focus on Christ is very refreshing. As I understand you, you wish to emphasize Christ in your witnessing. You are deeply concerned and troubled that I emphasize personal experience over Jesus. You also instruct me that Calvin was very Christ-centered. I can not agree more!
That being said, did you really read the post? Did you wrestle with what I was saying or did you see it as another piece emphasizing personal experience, which you do not wish to do, so you wrote against such an emphasis?
You claim that you see your sin more clearly now than you did years ago. I suffer from the same issue. What can we do? I repent and believe in Christ as my only hope. I immerse myself in the promises of God and find the Holy Spirit not only forgives my sin, but also bestows grace upon me. Such grace is transformative!
John Calvin is not only Christ-centered, but he is also known as the Protestant theologian who "re-discovered" the Holy Spirit. When you tell others about the very real Savior who gave you grace this morning when you got upset with your wife over nothing, you can relate to both believers and unbelievers. You also allow the Spirit to glorify Christ because you bring nothing but sin, while He gives grace and mercy.
You have all the theological pieces, I fear that you just have not quite put them in correct order. You have rightly emphasized Christ, but somehow you have forgotten that repentance and faith are what tie you into the Vine. When you live such repentance and faith, you cannot help but tell others about the One who forgives and loves you. Such a witness is not "me" centered, but Christ-centered.
Please re-read my post (and others within my blog) and tell me if we do not agree in substance even if you prefer to state it a different way.
Again, I thank you for the comment and correction!
Posted in: Today's Compelling Story of Grace
Henry:
Again, I thank you for the clarification and comments. I have taken two days to respond to this post because I wished to think about how to respond or even if I should. As I stated earlier, I thought we were not that far apart. It appeared the only differences were in how we were stating the same thing. I was and am always ready to give you the benefit of the doubt and a generosity in how you state things. Toward the end of you post, you say the same thing. Yet, how you got to your statement of agreement was my point.
I am truly sorry that you had experiences with people who looked down on your spirituality because you had not experienced the HS as they did. Obviously, this is an incorrect understanding of the work of the Spirit. Authentic works of the Spirit promote humility and not pride. They promote a desire to see Christ exalted in all things and not self. Those who use spiritual experience as a club to beat others have fallen into error.
That being said, why would you posit or argue that I was saying this? Do you realize that you insult my intergrity and I also believe the intergrity of the authentic work of the Spirit? You proved you were "right" but in the process you lost me.
Why? Where is the humility? Where is the willingness to listen and engage?
When I said you had the pieces not in the correct order I did not mean theologically. I meant that in sharing with people under age 40 or 45, you were proclaiming the gospel in a way they could not hear it. Why? You did not lead with humility but with a theologial correctness that makes it hard to want to listen to you. I remain persuaded that you did not really listen to me. Was this your goal? Again in charity, I think not!
Witnessing to the reality of Christ to those in our culture- particularly those not raised in the church and under age 40/45- is easy and effective if you begin with humility. Confess your need for a savior. In the process point to Jesus as the only hope. If you see this as theological compromise, then I fear you will not be an effective witness to those important young families, 20 somethings, and teens. You will be "right" but not "all things to all people, that by all means I might save some." 1 Cor. 10:23
Repentance and faith leads to humility. I do pray that you will not see this as a personal attack. It was never intended as such and if you took any of it in that way, I apologize. Please know it was not my intention. My hope in this post and others is to help us learn how to reach out with gospel- and grace-centered evangelism. I believe leading with humility is key. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps I am not. I do know that effective outreach is a topic we in the CRC have struggled with for several generations! We need to talk about and learn how to do it.
I thank you for adding to the conversation. I will continue to "put myself out there" so as to advance the conversation further. I am sure I wrong about many things and I hope to continued conversation will help all of us grow in grace so we can see the Kingdom grow through the CRC.