Perhaps, if this were the only passage to deal with. But how does this relate to 1 Cor 14:34-35? Also, 1 Cor 11:2-16, a different problem, but the same underlying principle.
Btw, you didn't reply to my previous comment. You'd said you'd wanted access to my study of women deacons, but I can only email it to you.
I'd like to agree with you, but competent (conservative) Greek scholars have refuted or at least challenged your interpretation. I don't see much or any interaction with them.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my somewhat cryptic comment (as well as all the other ones you reply to!). I've written to you twice and both times my answer disappeared before being sent. Meanwhile, I've ordered the book "Nobody's Mother." It arrives manana. I'll read it, plus all your blogs on this subject (which I confess I haven't) and get back to you later. Will they be published in book form?
Meanwhile, I'm curious as to why your articles are being posted on CRC Communications (as well as The Network). Does that make them the official CRC position? Also, what do you understand by "prophesy" in your bio? Finally, if I may be so bold, I'd be interested in your response to this: https://www.christiancourier.ca/the-clear-teaching-of-scripture-or-thinking-for-ourselves/
Yikes! I thought you were going to take a few days to respond. Yes, I was referring to https://www.crcna.org/author/bev-sterk. I have no issues with your definition and explanation of prophecy. I have now read Sandra Glahn's book and I thank you for alerting me to it. Next, I need to read through your articles. That may take a bit of time. I am mostly a full-time caregiver for my wife, with little time or energy for other things. Next time, I'll give you some biographical background on my interest in this topic. Blessings, C.
Thank you, Bev. You are very kind and thoughtful! I apologize that my time management skills are not up to your standard.
As you can tell from my name, I am not of Dutch descent and did not grow up in the CRC (although I have Dutch cousins, living in Scotland-their father married my aunt on the mission field in Zimbabwe, where I was born. I later grew up in Scotland where I had lots of contact with Dutch visitors.) Skipping further details, I was a pastor/church planter with the PCA on the beautiful Sunshine Coast of British Columbia before receiving a call to a CRC congregation in the bald prairie of Alberta. My (American/now Canadian, non-Dutch) wife took 20 years to get used to it. Now she loves it! We're still in Alberta, but not in our first congregation. I took early retirement in 2013 not long after a 2 year bout of a rare cancer, and concentrated on writing before Margaret became ill. (See https://www.amazon.com/sk=j.+cameron+fraser&crid=3V9GC5OQQZK4X&sprefix=%2Caps%2C204&ref=nb_sb_ss_recent_2_0_recent) I served as clerk of Classis Alberta and Saskatchewan from 2013-19, my favorite job.
I transferred into the CRC in 1995 (not out of any desire to leave the PCA). That was the year Synod first opened the offices of minister and elder to women. Coming from a more conservative background, and having a wife strongly opposed to Synod's decision - not all women supported it - I had to figure out my position. I did so through a DMin project about a related debate that was then taking place. (See Fraser, J. Cameron. ""Women in office" in relation to the role of deacons and their delegation to "major" assemblies: testing another approach to a debate within the Christian Reformed Church /." Online full text .pdf document, available to Fuller patrons only, 2003. http://www.tren.com).
I basically adapted John Stott's view in his commentary on 1 Timothy ("Guard the Gospel"). He concluded from the controverted passage in chapter 2 that there are both creational and cultural elements, such that a woman may serve on a ministry team with a male leader as a nod to the principle of male headship. I adapted that to a redefinition of the office of deacon (which means different things in different traditions), such that women can do anything men can do (not limited to mercy ministries) but as deacons rather than elders or pastors, although I think a husband/wife pastoral ministry could be included. In other words, I see in 1 Tim a separate office of women, such that they could make up a third of councils, classes and synods. You obviously won't agree and may even find it demeaning, but I can't see how to exegetically get around the biblical principle of male headship in marriage and church office (not necessarily in society), whether we like it or not (and I don't much). As you can see, my model would actually increase female participation in church office and ministry.
I skimmed the background in "Nobody's Mother" and read Chapter 6 (the application) twice. I think I need to read it a third time before commenting. I have also now read your articles and see there is more to come, presumably based at least in part on "Nobody's Mother." I'm impressed with the amount of research you've done and, as I've said, I would like to believe you - but I'm not yet prepared to abandon my own position. I think I'll await your final pieces before commenting further. Blessings and thank you, C.
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 11: Paul's Correction of the Created Order
Still speculative, but at least you're clearer than Sandra Glahn! How can you know Paul was addressing a specific woman?
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 11: Paul's Correction of the Created Order
Perhaps, if this were the only passage to deal with. But how does this relate to 1 Cor 14:34-35? Also, 1 Cor 11:2-16, a different problem, but the same underlying principle.
Btw, you didn't reply to my previous comment. You'd said you'd wanted access to my study of women deacons, but I can only email it to you.
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 11: Paul's Correction of the Created Order
Done. From The Fraser Family ([email protected]).
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 9: Summary of The Shift
I'd like to agree with you, but competent (conservative) Greek scholars have refuted or at least challenged your interpretation. I don't see much or any interaction with them.
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 9: Summary of The Shift
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my somewhat cryptic comment (as well as all the other ones you reply to!). I've written to you twice and both times my answer disappeared before being sent. Meanwhile, I've ordered the book "Nobody's Mother." It arrives manana. I'll read it, plus all your blogs on this subject (which I confess I haven't) and get back to you later. Will they be published in book form?
Meanwhile, I'm curious as to why your articles are being posted on CRC Communications (as well as The Network). Does that make them the official CRC position? Also, what do you understand by "prophesy" in your bio? Finally, if I may be so bold, I'd be interested in your response to this: https://www.christiancourier.ca/the-clear-teaching-of-scripture-or-thinking-for-ourselves/
Blessings, C.
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 9: Summary of The Shift
Yikes! I thought you were going to take a few days to respond. Yes, I was referring to https://www.crcna.org/author/bev-sterk. I have no issues with your definition and explanation of prophecy. I have now read Sandra Glahn's book and I thank you for alerting me to it. Next, I need to read through your articles. That may take a bit of time. I am mostly a full-time caregiver for my wife, with little time or energy for other things. Next time, I'll give you some biographical background on my interest in this topic. Blessings, C.
Posted in: Getting the Whole Picture, Part 9: Summary of The Shift
Thank you, Bev. You are very kind and thoughtful! I apologize that my time management skills are not up to your standard.
As you can tell from my name, I am not of Dutch descent and did not grow up in the CRC (although I have Dutch cousins, living in Scotland-their father married my aunt on the mission field in Zimbabwe, where I was born. I later grew up in Scotland where I had lots of contact with Dutch visitors.) Skipping further details, I was a pastor/church planter with the PCA on the beautiful Sunshine Coast of British Columbia before receiving a call to a CRC congregation in the bald prairie of Alberta. My (American/now Canadian, non-Dutch) wife took 20 years to get used to it. Now she loves it! We're still in Alberta, but not in our first congregation. I took early retirement in 2013 not long after a 2 year bout of a rare cancer, and concentrated on writing before Margaret became ill. (See https://www.amazon.com/sk=j.+cameron+fraser&crid=3V9GC5OQQZK4X&sprefix=%2Caps%2C204&ref=nb_sb_ss_recent_2_0_recent) I served as clerk of Classis Alberta and Saskatchewan from 2013-19, my favorite job.
I transferred into the CRC in 1995 (not out of any desire to leave the PCA). That was the year Synod first opened the offices of minister and elder to women. Coming from a more conservative background, and having a wife strongly opposed to Synod's decision - not all women supported it - I had to figure out my position. I did so through a DMin project about a related debate that was then taking place. (See Fraser, J. Cameron. ""Women in office" in relation to the role of deacons and their delegation to "major" assemblies: testing another approach to a debate within the Christian Reformed Church /." Online full text .pdf document, available to Fuller patrons only, 2003. http://www.tren.com).
I basically adapted John Stott's view in his commentary on 1 Timothy ("Guard the Gospel"). He concluded from the controverted passage in chapter 2 that there are both creational and cultural elements, such that a woman may serve on a ministry team with a male leader as a nod to the principle of male headship. I adapted that to a redefinition of the office of deacon (which means different things in different traditions), such that women can do anything men can do (not limited to mercy ministries) but as deacons rather than elders or pastors, although I think a husband/wife pastoral ministry could be included. In other words, I see in 1 Tim a separate office of women, such that they could make up a third of councils, classes and synods. You obviously won't agree and may even find it demeaning, but I can't see how to exegetically get around the biblical principle of male headship in marriage and church office (not necessarily in society), whether we like it or not (and I don't much). As you can see, my model would actually increase female participation in church office and ministry.
I skimmed the background in "Nobody's Mother" and read Chapter 6 (the application) twice. I think I need to read it a third time before commenting. I have also now read your articles and see there is more to come, presumably based at least in part on "Nobody's Mother." I'm impressed with the amount of research you've done and, as I've said, I would like to believe you - but I'm not yet prepared to abandon my own position. I think I'll await your final pieces before commenting further. Blessings and thank you, C.