Hull Christian Grade School, Pella Christian High School, Dordt College, Married Rose Vander Plaats, Sons Matthew & Kim, David, and Jeremy & Kelly, Six grandchildren, Careers working with Handicapped Children and Adults, Chemical Dependency Counseling and Social Work, Minnesota House of Representatives, Insurance, Paint & Construction Sales, and Ordained CRC Ministry.
Rob, I'm sorry, I wrote all of the following paragraphs before I realized you had already received answers from my friend Todd Zuidema (who signed my certificate of ordination) and someone else. I also thank you for your willingness to help your congregation. You may have figured out from the other answers that you would need to become ordained under article 7 or 8 or be ordained as a "Ministry Associate" under Article 23-24 and in all of these you need to deal with Ministerial Candidacy Committee, which in my opinion has become far too complex and restrictive. If you do not want or need my more detailed answer, you may want to stop reading here.
I'll try, Rob. In the "Manual of Christian Reformed Church Government" 2008 Revision by Peter Borgdorff, after Articles 6, 7, & 8 detail the three ways to become an ordained "Minister of the Word" in the CRC, Article 11 emphasizes that is the correct title to be used. On page 64 it is explained "Synod 1965 did not accede to an overture requesting that the title be made "minister of the Word and sacraments," because the term "minister of the Word" is commonly accepted as including the administration of the sacraments (Acts of Synod 1965, p.58)." That paragraph also informs us other Reformed churches, including RCA, use...'and sacraments.'
The next paragraph admits 'the title "pastor" is common... but is not a title but a function of the office of minister of the Word.
In Article 12, p. 67 explains "The Bible couples the preaching of the WOrd and the administration of the sacraments (Matt. 28:19-20 and the history in Acts). The oral proclamation of the WOrd should be accompanied by the visible signs and seals of God's grace contained in the sacraments." The paragraph goes on in quoting the Acts of Synod 1973, pp. 62-64.
I was 'Licensed to Exhort' in various Classes for about 28 years before becoming ordained under Article 7 (before they changed the rules - long story) but always knew I could not administer sacraments or perform marriages, etc. until I was ordained.
Interesting that this question indicates indirectly that the family had been attending another CRC for two years when they were 'declared lapsed in 2009', which raises the question why they were not transferred in 2009 instead of lapsed. Obviously there is information lacking in the question. Presuming Article 67 B was followed, it would seem the family 'claim(ed) to be worshipping elsewhere' but would not say where and would not request transfer to the church they were attending. Also they would have 'claim(ed) to be committed to the Christian Faith' and 'the consistory (was) not aware of any public sin requiring discipline'. What took so long to be interested in the transfer is a mystery that might suggest the need for a discreet converstion between representatives of the two consistories for more clarification in my humble opinion. Then a decision could be made about 'transferring' the statistical (membership) information as long as the receiving consistory does a 'readmission' since there is "no synodical guidelines ... defined for the readmission... some sort of reaffirmation of confession of faith seems appropriate as part of the readmission process." 2008 Manuel of CRC Government #2, p. 264
While it is possible too much is presumed, Article 35 B. a. in the church order simply says "In every church there shall be a council composed of the minister(s), the elders, and the deacons." These are 'members' of the council and members of any board, consistory, council, deaconate, etc, have a vote unless they are somehow determined to be 'ex officio members'. This may or may not settle anything, but in my many years as an elder and more recent years as a pastor it has been the norm for my experience in the U.S. (and now in Guam, also part of the U.S.)
Hello Arthur. I do not know why your question has gone unanswered for so long, but for me I just saw it for the first time late-yesterday and I would like to try to give you an answer. I hope you have become part of the CRCNA despite your question not getting an answer.
I am not aware that the Westminster Confession (WC) was ever rejected in any way by the CRCNA, but the Heidelberg Catechism (HC) was written in 1563 in Heidelberg, Germany a full 83 years before the WC (1646) was written, and it became widely used and loved there and in nearby Holland and other parts of Europe.;The Presbyterian Church in the U.S. inherited the WC from their Scottish ancestors (who got it from the the Church of England) and adopted it first in 1729, and the PCUSA formed and adopted it in 1788. The CRCNA was started by Dutch Calvinist immigrants in 1857, and those folks had known and loved the HC those ~200 years since the WC was written and the prior 83 years! The Dutch Reformed folks had a split in Holland but both sides still loved the HC deeply and basically, as Richard Mouw said in his 2004 book Calvinism in the Las Vegas Airport "three documents that have long defined doctrinal orthodoxy in the Dutch Reformed tradition: The Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession, and the Cannons of Dort." p.21
Obviously, I hope, the CRCNA has become very diverse since it's origins, but that doctrinal orthodoxy has stuck firmly and has served us well now over 150 years. Mouw made other interesting comments comparing the HC and WC on pp. 98-99 an de 104-105 you might find interesting and helpful, quoting Hendrikus Berkhof, "they differ greatly in their tone. This is obvious... in the way each of them begins." He noted the WC starts by making a theological point... but the HC... begins in very personal terms. I don't believe Mouw or Berkhof meant any criticism of WC but were just comparing some differences.
I hope this helps and I hope and pray it's not too late. I would be glad to answer any follow up questions you might have or any comments on the subject. Blessings to you and yours. Pastor Tom
Rev. Tom Van Engen, Senior Pastor, Faith Presbyterian CRC, Ordot Chalan Pago, Guam [email protected]
Hello Arthur. I do not know why your question has gone unanswered for so long, but for me I just saw it for the first time late-yesterday and I would like to try to give you an answer. I hope you have become part of the CRCNA despite your question not getting an answer.
I am not aware that the Westminster Confession (WC) was ever rejected in any way by the CRCNA or of any attempts to get it accepted. The Heidelberg Catechism (HC) was written in 1563 in Heidelberg, Germany a full 83 years before the WC (1646) was written, and it became widely used and loved there and in nearby Holland and other parts of Europe. The Presbyterian Church in the U.S. inherited the WC from their Scottish ancestors (who got it from the the Church of England) and adopted it first in 1729, and the PCUSA formed and adopted it in 1788. The CRCNA was started by Dutch Calvinist immigrants in 1857, and those folks had known and loved the HC those ~200 years since the WC was written and the prior 83 years! The Dutch Reformed folks had a split in Holland but both sides still loved the HC deeply and basically, as Richard Mouw said in his 2004 book Calvinism in the Las Vegas Airport "three documents that have long defined doctrinal orthodoxy in the Dutch Reformed tradition: The Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession, and the Cannons of Dort." p.21
Obviously the CRCNA has become very diverse since it's origins, but that doctrinal orthodoxy has stuck firmly and has served us well now over 150 years. Mouw made other interesting comments comparing the HC and WC on pp. 98-99 and 104-105 you might find interesting and helpful, quoting Hendrikus Berkhof, "they differ greatly in their tone. This is obvious... in the way each of them begins." He noted the WC starts by making a theological point... but the HC... begins in very personal terms. I don't believe Mouw or Berkhof meant any criticism of WC but were just comparing some differences.
I hope this helps and I hope and pray it's not too late. I would be glad to answer any follow up questions you might have or any comments on the subject. Blessings to you and yours. Pastor Tom
Rev. Tom Van Engen, Senior Pastor, Faith Presbyterian CRC, Ordot Chalan Pago, Guam [email protected]
While I generally appreciate it, I am frustrated by part of your article. I believe it is not helpful to quote Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. out of context, as your use of the quote seems to imply he approved of riot, which he absolutely did not. Everything he said and did (as far as I can tell) included a radical commitment to non-violence in addition to his commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe we Jesus followers can improve the situation in our country by sharing, implementing, and living that same commitment to avoid violence and honor and respect all image bearers. I believe we should reject any and all 'riot', violence, and lawlessness and sincerely love each other. I wholeheartedly agree we should befriend and seek to understand each other no matter what shade of the human race our skin reflects.
Happy New Year to all from Faith Presbyterian CRC in Chalan Pago, Guam where it is 82 degrees F. My first response before being called as Senior Pastor here, "Who knew there is a CRC in Guam??"
I served three 3 year terms as Elder in two MN churches, twice went to Synod as an Elder, then became ordained Pastor now eleven years and went to Synod twice as Pastor in two separate Classes. It was mostly good experiences, but of course some were difficult. God Bless all past, present, and future Elders.
At Faith Presbyterian CRC (Guam) we have a time in almost all services where we have an open mic, people are invited to come forward to share praises and prayer requests. A designated person, often an elder or deacon, then leads everyone in prayer for those things we heard. Sometimes people share a lot and it takes our service into 15-20 minutes longer than our normal hour and a half service, but no one complains. During the week emails are occasionally sent to the whole congregation, occasionally prayer requests are shared on our church FaceBook page
At Faith Presbyterian CRC in Guam we usually have an 'open mic' for people to share prayer requests during the service (when we're able to meet) and then an Elder or Deacon leads public prayers including the requests made. This has it's risks, and we have occasionally had some startling honest requests along with occasional humorous requests, but the risk seems to be worth it because we are a caring church family. We also send church-wide emails as needed during the week. We praise God that we have seen many many prayers answered by our great almighty God. Pastor Tom
Posted in: Do You Have a Favorite Bible?
I still far and away prefer the NIV (84) Study Bible, had it a very long time and still love it.
Posted in: Why Must You Be Ordained in Order to Administer Communion/The Lord's Supper?
Rob, I'm sorry, I wrote all of the following paragraphs before I realized you had already received answers from my friend Todd Zuidema (who signed my certificate of ordination) and someone else. I also thank you for your willingness to help your congregation. You may have figured out from the other answers that you would need to become ordained under article 7 or 8 or be ordained as a "Ministry Associate" under Article 23-24 and in all of these you need to deal with Ministerial Candidacy Committee, which in my opinion has become far too complex and restrictive. If you do not want or need my more detailed answer, you may want to stop reading here.
I'll try, Rob. In the "Manual of Christian Reformed Church Government" 2008 Revision by Peter Borgdorff, after Articles 6, 7, & 8 detail the three ways to become an ordained "Minister of the Word" in the CRC, Article 11 emphasizes that is the correct title to be used. On page 64 it is explained "Synod 1965 did not accede to an overture requesting that the title be made "minister of the Word and sacraments," because the term "minister of the Word" is commonly accepted as including the administration of the sacraments (Acts of Synod 1965, p.58)." That paragraph also informs us other Reformed churches, including RCA, use...'and sacraments.'
The next paragraph admits 'the title "pastor" is common... but is not a title but a function of the office of minister of the Word.
In Article 12, p. 67 explains "The Bible couples the preaching of the WOrd and the administration of the sacraments (Matt. 28:19-20 and the history in Acts). The oral proclamation of the WOrd should be accompanied by the visible signs and seals of God's grace contained in the sacraments." The paragraph goes on in quoting the Acts of Synod 1973, pp. 62-64.
I was 'Licensed to Exhort' in various Classes for about 28 years before becoming ordained under Article 7 (before they changed the rules - long story) but always knew I could not administer sacraments or perform marriages, etc. until I was ordained.
Posted in: Transfer Lapsed Members?
Interesting that this question indicates indirectly that the family had been attending another CRC for two years when they were 'declared lapsed in 2009', which raises the question why they were not transferred in 2009 instead of lapsed. Obviously there is information lacking in the question. Presuming Article 67 B was followed, it would seem the family 'claim(ed) to be worshipping elsewhere' but would not say where and would not request transfer to the church they were attending. Also they would have 'claim(ed) to be committed to the Christian Faith' and 'the consistory (was) not aware of any public sin requiring discipline'. What took so long to be interested in the transfer is a mystery that might suggest the need for a discreet converstion between representatives of the two consistories for more clarification in my humble opinion. Then a decision could be made about 'transferring' the statistical (membership) information as long as the receiving consistory does a 'readmission' since there is "no synodical guidelines ... defined for the readmission... some sort of reaffirmation of confession of faith seems appropriate as part of the readmission process." 2008 Manuel of CRC Government #2, p. 264
Posted in: Do Ministers Vote in Council Meetings?
While it is possible too much is presumed, Article 35 B. a. in the church order simply says "In every church there shall be a council composed of the minister(s), the elders, and the deacons." These are 'members' of the council and members of any board, consistory, council, deaconate, etc, have a vote unless they are somehow determined to be 'ex officio members'. This may or may not settle anything, but in my many years as an elder and more recent years as a pastor it has been the norm for my experience in the U.S. (and now in Guam, also part of the U.S.)
Posted in: Do Ministers Vote in Council Meetings?
Thanks Ken and Scott, I remembered the part about charing the meeting and Roberts Rules of Order about ten seconds after I hit 'save'.
Posted in: Why CRCNA does not subscribe Westminster Confession of Faith?
Hello Arthur. I do not know why your question has gone unanswered for so long, but for me I just saw it for the first time late-yesterday and I would like to try to give you an answer. I hope you have become part of the CRCNA despite your question not getting an answer.
I am not aware that the Westminster Confession (WC) was ever rejected in any way by the CRCNA, but the Heidelberg Catechism (HC) was written in 1563 in Heidelberg, Germany a full 83 years before the WC (1646) was written, and it became widely used and loved there and in nearby Holland and other parts of Europe.;The Presbyterian Church in the U.S. inherited the WC from their Scottish ancestors (who got it from the the Church of England) and adopted it first in 1729, and the PCUSA formed and adopted it in 1788. The CRCNA was started by Dutch Calvinist immigrants in 1857, and those folks had known and loved the HC those ~200 years since the WC was written and the prior 83 years! The Dutch Reformed folks had a split in Holland but both sides still loved the HC deeply and basically, as Richard Mouw said in his 2004 book Calvinism in the Las Vegas Airport "three documents that have long defined doctrinal orthodoxy in the Dutch Reformed tradition: The Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession, and the Cannons of Dort." p.21
Obviously, I hope, the CRCNA has become very diverse since it's origins, but that doctrinal orthodoxy has stuck firmly and has served us well now over 150 years. Mouw made other interesting comments comparing the HC and WC on pp. 98-99 an de 104-105 you might find interesting and helpful, quoting Hendrikus Berkhof, "they differ greatly in their tone. This is obvious... in the way each of them begins." He noted the WC starts by making a theological point... but the HC... begins in very personal terms. I don't believe Mouw or Berkhof meant any criticism of WC but were just comparing some differences.
I hope this helps and I hope and pray it's not too late. I would be glad to answer any follow up questions you might have or any comments on the subject. Blessings to you and yours. Pastor Tom
Rev. Tom Van Engen, Senior Pastor, Faith Presbyterian CRC, Ordot Chalan Pago, Guam [email protected]
Posted in: Why CRCNA does not subscribe Westminster Confession of Faith?
Hello Arthur. I do not know why your question has gone unanswered for so long, but for me I just saw it for the first time late-yesterday and I would like to try to give you an answer. I hope you have become part of the CRCNA despite your question not getting an answer.
I am not aware that the Westminster Confession (WC) was ever rejected in any way by the CRCNA or of any attempts to get it accepted. The Heidelberg Catechism (HC) was written in 1563 in Heidelberg, Germany a full 83 years before the WC (1646) was written, and it became widely used and loved there and in nearby Holland and other parts of Europe. The Presbyterian Church in the U.S. inherited the WC from their Scottish ancestors (who got it from the the Church of England) and adopted it first in 1729, and the PCUSA formed and adopted it in 1788. The CRCNA was started by Dutch Calvinist immigrants in 1857, and those folks had known and loved the HC those ~200 years since the WC was written and the prior 83 years! The Dutch Reformed folks had a split in Holland but both sides still loved the HC deeply and basically, as Richard Mouw said in his 2004 book Calvinism in the Las Vegas Airport "three documents that have long defined doctrinal orthodoxy in the Dutch Reformed tradition: The Heidelberg Catechism, the Belgic Confession, and the Cannons of Dort." p.21
Obviously the CRCNA has become very diverse since it's origins, but that doctrinal orthodoxy has stuck firmly and has served us well now over 150 years. Mouw made other interesting comments comparing the HC and WC on pp. 98-99 and 104-105 you might find interesting and helpful, quoting Hendrikus Berkhof, "they differ greatly in their tone. This is obvious... in the way each of them begins." He noted the WC starts by making a theological point... but the HC... begins in very personal terms. I don't believe Mouw or Berkhof meant any criticism of WC but were just comparing some differences.
I hope this helps and I hope and pray it's not too late. I would be glad to answer any follow up questions you might have or any comments on the subject. Blessings to you and yours. Pastor Tom
Rev. Tom Van Engen, Senior Pastor, Faith Presbyterian CRC, Ordot Chalan Pago, Guam [email protected]
Posted in: Beyond Thoughts and Prayer
While I generally appreciate it, I am frustrated by part of your article. I believe it is not helpful to quote Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. out of context, as your use of the quote seems to imply he approved of riot, which he absolutely did not. Everything he said and did (as far as I can tell) included a radical commitment to non-violence in addition to his commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe we Jesus followers can improve the situation in our country by sharing, implementing, and living that same commitment to avoid violence and honor and respect all image bearers. I believe we should reject any and all 'riot', violence, and lawlessness and sincerely love each other. I wholeheartedly agree we should befriend and seek to understand each other no matter what shade of the human race our skin reflects.
Posted in: Where Do You Live? Say Hi Below!
Happy New Year to all from Faith Presbyterian CRC in Chalan Pago, Guam where it is 82 degrees F. My first response before being called as Senior Pastor here, "Who knew there is a CRC in Guam??"
Posted in: Any Current or Past Elders?
I served three 3 year terms as Elder in two MN churches, twice went to Synod as an Elder, then became ordained Pastor now eleven years and went to Synod twice as Pastor in two separate Classes. It was mostly good experiences, but of course some were difficult. God Bless all past, present, and future Elders.
Posted in: How Does Your Church Share Prayer Requests?
At Faith Presbyterian CRC (Guam) we have a time in almost all services where we have an open mic, people are invited to come forward to share praises and prayer requests. A designated person, often an elder or deacon, then leads everyone in prayer for those things we heard. Sometimes people share a lot and it takes our service into 15-20 minutes longer than our normal hour and a half service, but no one complains. During the week emails are occasionally sent to the whole congregation, occasionally prayer requests are shared on our church FaceBook page
Posted in: How Does Your Church Share Prayer Requests?
At Faith Presbyterian CRC in Guam we usually have an 'open mic' for people to share prayer requests during the service (when we're able to meet) and then an Elder or Deacon leads public prayers including the requests made. This has it's risks, and we have occasionally had some startling honest requests along with occasional humorous requests, but the risk seems to be worth it because we are a caring church family. We also send church-wide emails as needed during the week. We praise God that we have seen many many prayers answered by our great almighty God. Pastor Tom