again really helpful article. Would love to chat more about your views of ministry in this area. If you're happy to get in touch please do. +221777647876
Conversationally how would you answer common statements by our friends that 'your Allah and our Allah are one' or 'I believe in Jesus (and Adam, Noah, Abraham....)?
Until recently I've been saying great you believe in him, have you read his words, then opening up the NT, or Torah and calling them the Injil and the Tawreet. I've stopped, but not sure how to proceed. should I emphasise the antithesis?
you mentioned shaky foundations for building and that is my concern, are we starting conversations on a shaky foundation when we agree to talk about what we have 'in common' like the Injil, or like the prophet Ibrahim... or as you say like the Al Masih.
Great that you've been doing some research too. To help you with the research it would be good to know that the King James Version, KJV, Wycliffe Bible... are all translations of the scripture. of course, translations are not going to be the same. Just like translations of the Qur'an (or commentaries if you believe it is untranslatable) vary in how they translate different Ayahs. Looking at the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts will make your arguments more persuasive. But beware, if you are willing to subject other religious traditions to historical criticism you must also be willing to subject your own tradition to the same historical criticism. Are you willing?
That is a really helpful and clear look at this text. Thank you, Alex
Could you write about your thoughts on conversations with followers of the Meccan religion. I'm often getting into conversations about so called 'prophets that we have in common'. But I'm not sure if that is really a good starting point as we might share some names (David, Moses, Abraham...) but are the characters actually the same? Would love your thoughts on that.
Yeah it's the Islamic subversive narrative taking figures and making them work to its own means.
One more practical question:
When someone says I believe in Moosa or Dauda... If you're initial response possitive (great, but have you read what he wrote?), Or more cautious (tell me about this moosa you believe in?)
My question is basically how much to allow their assumption that the characters of the Q. and the biblical characters are the same? It's convenient for getting them to scripture, but I worry that I'm being duplicitous because I know that the moosa they talk about isn't the biblical one/is a non entity.
My question is the same as the question of allowing the assumed link between the fictional document of the tawreet and the Torah.
Thanks so much for engaging with me on this, I've been going round in circles thinking about it. And it's an everyday question for me in my bookstall in the market...
Have you read Strange for Thier rock is not our rock?
It was Sam Sulayman's book that led me to find your article.
The similarities are very surface level! Thank you for pointing out this 'common ground', I wonder how often I have mistakenly walked across such ground without noticing the fault lines.
That is a very interesting little article. Yes, I think lots of the modern strategies that I am encouraged to think about (building bridges, relationships first, accelerating movements...) seem to be improvements on all previous models (including those in the NT). As I heard one missionary to Muslims argue: Jesus and his apostles never ministered among Muslims so we need to develop a new strategy. I Think as well as a subtle tendency to improve, there is also an unspoken and equally subtle fear of rejection lurking behind many modern strategies. The old ways don't seem to work, we aren't seeing millions come to Christ, so let's find a new way. But the parable of the sower and Jesus' warnings about the wide and narrow gates should prepare us for the rejection of our message among many of our contacts.
What are your thoughts on strategies that recommend spending the first 20 sessions (in whatever form they take) looking at the Old Testament. before coming to Christ.
It's also the case sometimes that scripture portions get selected for translation before others due to limited resources. I found this article helpful for this discussion, especially with reference to a Panoramic Bible: http://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/19_2_PDFs/10%20Using_Scripture_Portions.pdf
I have indeed done the same and have been questioning whether I am mistaken in doing so. I would love to know the etymology of the words injil, zabur & Tawreet. Do you know them?
I am also worried about how we respond to statements by Muslim friends who say 'i believe in all the prophets' or 'I love Jesus'. do we respond acknowledging that it is a good thing they ascribe to, or do we take the object of their faith/love to be different to what we would mean by the terms prophets/Jesus?
I think the statements are ambiguous at best and dangerously misleading. The point about the totality of a religion's worldview is very good/important and needs to shape my ministry and thinking more.
Posted in: Why Do Muslims Come to Christ? Five Case Studies
again really helpful article. Would love to chat more about your views of ministry in this area. If you're happy to get in touch please do. +221777647876
Posted in: Who is the Messiah in Islam?
Very helpful line of questioning.
Conversationally how would you answer common statements by our friends that 'your Allah and our Allah are one' or 'I believe in Jesus (and Adam, Noah, Abraham....)?
Until recently I've been saying great you believe in him, have you read his words, then opening up the NT, or Torah and calling them the Injil and the Tawreet. I've stopped, but not sure how to proceed. should I emphasise the antithesis?
you mentioned shaky foundations for building and that is my concern, are we starting conversations on a shaky foundation when we agree to talk about what we have 'in common' like the Injil, or like the prophet Ibrahim... or as you say like the Al Masih.
Posted in: Who is the Messiah in Islam?
Hi Malesh,
Great that you've been doing some research too. To help you with the research it would be good to know that the King James Version, KJV, Wycliffe Bible... are all translations of the scripture. of course, translations are not going to be the same. Just like translations of the Qur'an (or commentaries if you believe it is untranslatable) vary in how they translate different Ayahs. Looking at the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts will make your arguments more persuasive. But beware, if you are willing to subject other religious traditions to historical criticism you must also be willing to subject your own tradition to the same historical criticism. Are you willing?
May God bless your research,
Alex
Posted in: “Unknown God Altars,” “Indigenous Religion”, and “Anonymous Christians”
That is a really helpful and clear look at this text. Thank you, Alex
Could you write about your thoughts on conversations with followers of the Meccan religion. I'm often getting into conversations about so called 'prophets that we have in common'. But I'm not sure if that is really a good starting point as we might share some names (David, Moses, Abraham...) but are the characters actually the same? Would love your thoughts on that.
Posted in: “Unknown God Altars,” “Indigenous Religion”, and “Anonymous Christians”
Yeah it's the Islamic subversive narrative taking figures and making them work to its own means.
One more practical question:
When someone says I believe in Moosa or Dauda... If you're initial response possitive (great, but have you read what he wrote?), Or more cautious (tell me about this moosa you believe in?)
My question is basically how much to allow their assumption that the characters of the Q. and the biblical characters are the same? It's convenient for getting them to scripture, but I worry that I'm being duplicitous because I know that the moosa they talk about isn't the biblical one/is a non entity.
My question is the same as the question of allowing the assumed link between the fictional document of the tawreet and the Torah.
Thanks so much for engaging with me on this, I've been going round in circles thinking about it. And it's an everyday question for me in my bookstall in the market...
Have you read Strange for Thier rock is not our rock?
It was Sam Sulayman's book that led me to find your article.
Posted in: Camels and Needles in the Qur’an and in the Gospels
The similarities are very surface level! Thank you for pointing out this 'common ground', I wonder how often I have mistakenly walked across such ground without noticing the fault lines.
Posted in: Zwemer and Glenny's God-sized Vision for Reaching Muslims
That is a very interesting little article. Yes, I think lots of the modern strategies that I am encouraged to think about (building bridges, relationships first, accelerating movements...) seem to be improvements on all previous models (including those in the NT). As I heard one missionary to Muslims argue: Jesus and his apostles never ministered among Muslims so we need to develop a new strategy. I Think as well as a subtle tendency to improve, there is also an unspoken and equally subtle fear of rejection lurking behind many modern strategies. The old ways don't seem to work, we aren't seeing millions come to Christ, so let's find a new way. But the parable of the sower and Jesus' warnings about the wide and narrow gates should prepare us for the rejection of our message among many of our contacts.
What are your thoughts on strategies that recommend spending the first 20 sessions (in whatever form they take) looking at the Old Testament. before coming to Christ.
Alex
Posted in: Are Bible Translators Trying to Bring Christianity and Islam Closer Together?
It's also the case sometimes that scripture portions get selected for translation before others due to limited resources. I found this article helpful for this discussion, especially with reference to a Panoramic Bible: http://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/19_2_PDFs/10%20Using_Scripture_Portions.pdf
Posted in: What Is The "Injil"—Sometimes Known as the "Gospel"—in Islam?
I have indeed done the same and have been questioning whether I am mistaken in doing so. I would love to know the etymology of the words injil, zabur & Tawreet. Do you know them?
I am also worried about how we respond to statements by Muslim friends who say 'i believe in all the prophets' or 'I love Jesus'. do we respond acknowledging that it is a good thing they ascribe to, or do we take the object of their faith/love to be different to what we would mean by the terms prophets/Jesus?
Posted in: Is It True That Islam and Christianity Agree on 90% of What Is Taught by Each of Them?
I think the statements are ambiguous at best and dangerously misleading. The point about the totality of a religion's worldview is very good/important and needs to shape my ministry and thinking more.
Posted in: Is It True That Islam and Christianity Agree on 90% of What Is Taught by Each of Them?
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