Allen Kleine Deters
I am the church planter for the Niagara Falls, ON church plant yet to be named. I am married to an amazing woman full of compassion for the marginalized hence she is a special ed teacher of severe needs children. We have three boys (men) and one daughter-in-law. I am committed to Kingdom Theology and deeply believe in a biblical community that develops disciples for Christ. I am a small group geek and believe they are the best avenue in this endeavor. When managed with vision and mission small groups can cover most areas needed in developing as disciples of Jesus Christ and guiding people to live in missional communities.
Oh yeah, I'm also "The Reverend" formerly of the blues band, Reverend and the Blues Pushers, but now playing solo in my new parish community.
"Agape love alive and breathing, the Word and the power of Holy Spirit = reached people and changed lives"
Posted in: Genesis - Again!
John,
Hmmm, I'm not quite sure what your getting at although I do sense some antagonism in your response. I'm not suggesting evolution at all in my response other than perhaps adaptation of a species like plants and animals that adapt to their environment -- they don't become another species but there certainly is adaptation. God created it all for sure.
What I mean by "silly" is to consider evidence that I believe God has revealed to us by giving us the intelligence to measure something such as the speed of light and say it doesn't hold true when it comes to measuring light from stars because it goes against a literal 6 day creation.
I'm not sure that the context of the 1 Cor passage is the same as how you are using it. But nonetheless what I gather from your response is that perhaps in God's creating process he just threw in dinosaur bones and other "old earth/universe" stuff in just to throw us off? That seems quite out of character for God, at least the way he portrays himself in the Bible. While God performs many miracles and things beyond our understanding, he is straightforward and doesn't trick people -- at least not that I've seen.
And yes, I could agree that an old universe without macroevolution definitely could exist, but there seems to be plenty of scientific evidence that supports microevolution within the framework of God's natural order of things and his creating it all and not limiting him by any means.
Posted in: Tablets in Church?
There are a lot of great apps to use in worship as well. I recently bought an iPad 2 for just a few simple but important uses. One is to preach from. I tried my Kindle Fire but the screen is just a bit too small. Great for reading but that's about it. A second app I use regularly is OnSong which lets me keep all my sheet music on and display set lists when I lead worship (I plan on doing a review of this software for the Worship page on the Network). I'm also in another band and keep all our songs on there. I have an iPad holder that mounts to my mic stand so no more music stand in the way. It's sooo versatile. I'm an Apple guy now so all my devices sync which makes life even better.
Posted in: Genesis - Again!
See, I didn't have much trouble with Origins. I hear what you're saying regarding science and contradiction and all that. But this conversation is exactly the reason for this topic -- there are two sides to this discussion, both with some reasonable grounding and room for discussion and dialogue. Let's not forget the nature of Genesis that certainly is similar in style and nature up against other Near Eastern religious contexts with a significantly different twist. You raise the question, "But did he?" but the converse is valid as well. To think literally about the account is certainly up for discussion. Consider, along with your discussion, where all the cities and other people came from that God talked about regarding Cain. Where in the world did they all come from?
And if a day is like a thousand years (Peter is not meaning exactly 1000 years but rather God is not trapped within time and space), therein lies room for discussion in regard to the whole creation debate.
My thing is I'm not a scientist but a theologian and I agree with you that we cannot speak with certainty. I look at it this way, however God decided to do it is up to him, but I believe he did and it's amazing, mysterious and pretty complexly awe inspiring and humbling.
Posted in: Genesis - Again!
White Horse Inn? Never heard of it. I don't usually go out of my way to listen to podcasts.
While I'm not a scientist, I think we have to be careful as well not to downplay science too drastically since it is the gift of science by God that has helped develop cures and help in identification of so many important discoveries. While it is not scripture nor should it be taken as such, it has validity in our discussion just as much as philosophy, mathematics, literary style and history. God's got a hand in all of it.
I'll be interested to see what happens at synod.
Posted in: Using a Worship Backing Band System
Actually Leo, not only our band but the congregation appreciates it as well. Our musicians (especially developing musicians) find it helpful in their musical development in that it pushes them to stay on tempo and they feel less shy when there is a whole band kind of feel. Some have gotten better by leaps and bounds. They've become better, more confident musicians.
Our congregation appreciates the full sound and actually sing the contemporary songs with a lot more vigor. So it enhances their worship experience as well.
AKD
Posted in: Alpha Cities: How Willing Are We to Work Together?
I do certainly agree with the "Alpha Cities" approach. I've been struggling in the rural setting for the past number of years seeing that they are by in large disconected from the more populated communities. It's true that cities set the culture. That's probably why rural and even suburban communities can be years behind the cultural trends oblivious to how the majority of the nation is viewing the world and changing it.
I don't know what to do about the rural church situation though. The communities and churches are shrinking because kids are moving away, farms are being taken over by larger corporate operations, and there are fewer career opportunities for people. It's an inevitable slow death from what I can see.
While we shouldn't send these churches out to pasture, I fully agree that we need to be planting churches where they will make the greatest impact.
Posted in: Missional Communities After a Year
Great to hear. I've been processing for quite some time now how this may be possible in a more rural setting.
Posted in: Missional Communities After a Year
This is a good discussion on this. It is heavy on my heart and plate. I've been trying to see if our church could even get back to the missional community aspect of the church. I long for this in myself. We already live like this and have begun to more intentionally form a missional community. Our people don't know what to make of the way we live. When I bring up the Missional Community to our leadership they look at me with blank stares and wonder what planet I'm from. They're in a programatic mode. I encourage reading. I can't get anyone to look into this with any sort of desire or initiative. I'm personally struggling with this and whether or not God is saying something new to my wife and me.
Posted in: Using a Worship Backing Band System
I guess that is your personal preference. Our church sings a lot and loud even with a full band on stage. You seem to be suggesting that if there's a full band then it's entertainment which is not necessarily true. Not everyone worships the same way. Your response also judges those who are being used by the Lord to lead people into the Lord's presence through contemporary music. By it's nature, contemporary worship music is more of a band oriented style. It speaks to many people in our culture in a way you may not appreciate. But God still inspires some very faithful, committed Christian men and women to write this contemporary worship music from the depths of their love for Christ. Your assumptions are just that, assumptions and judgements.
Posted in: Missional Communities After a Year
This stuff if very timely for me as well, Brian. Kudos on going for the DMin. I thought about it, but decided I wanted to enjoy my last 15 years before official retirement age -- although I hope I don't HAVE to then. Anyway, I am in process of discerning the church's (institution) in all off this. I wonder if there are not some opposing paradigms in the midst of all this that are creating the strain between the "Mission" communities and "Church" communities. The MC believes they are being church in the intentional everyday, the way it was originally intended with a gathering once a week or every-so-often to corporately celebrate the Spirit's work. On the other hand, those in the "Church" institution see church more as a place and an event led by the scholars and layity who know their stuff, thus minimizing the need for the rest to "really know their stuff". Discipleship is minimized and Church is separated from the everyday being on mission to, if nothing else, just living a good moral life. Those are two very different paradigms at odds with each other.
How does an immigrant church community see themselves on mission if it was never in their DNA from the outset? Mission then becomes a program (outreach), is something you sign up for and do from time to time. But like the institutional church, mission is a separate entity from your life -- a thing on your list of things to do. It's not part and parcel of who you ARE, your identity, like it seemed to be for those early Christians.
So my question then is how do we connect those two paradigms in a healthy way and is it even possible?
Posted in: Missional Communities After a Year
Sorry I meant to say, "discerning the institutional church's role in all of this."
Posted in: An Evangelizing Joy
Thanks Chris, I love the challenge for the church body as a community to be Christ among the world, in the neighborhood. The gospel story is OUR story encapsulating the true joy of the season. I find that it is pure joy to take our congregation on a regular basis into the world we live to see people come alive as the gospel is proclaimed in its various forms.
Just as an aside, I believe God can speak truth to all of us even through the pope. I also like what he said about capitalism. ;-)