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Posted in: Genesis - Again!

All I have to say is that we sometimes forget  that God is also the God of science.  he certainly gave humans the ability to study his creation and I think even reach certain conclusions that certainly support God as creator.  We're seeing that evidence more and more.  I think George is right -- God created it.  If he chose to create it over billions of years that's his business  and to not allow for that possibility is to minimize God's creative power.  If we have the ability to measure the speed of light in three different ways and come to realize that some of the light we see from stars is billions of light years away, should we assume that God's just been playing a trick on us all and making it look like it's been there that long while it's actually only been there 6000 years?  That's silly.

Science and Theology walk a fine line together, but there is room for them to walk together.

Posted in: Genesis - Again!

Paul,

I'm curious what you thought of the Science and Theology class we took at seminary.  I believe we were in that one together.

 

BTW, I think you could also easily hypothesise that God could have taken as long as he wanted to create the earth fully sustainable before he decided to make Adam in an instant fully mature and able to reason and survive the elements that God may have created over a very long time.  Again it does not limit his power by any means.

Posted in: Genesis - Again!

John,

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure what your getting at although I do sense some antagonism in your response.  I'm not suggesting evolution at all in my response other than perhaps adaptation of a species like plants and animals that adapt to their environment  -- they don't become another species but there certainly is adaptation.  God created it all for sure.

What I mean by "silly" is to consider evidence that I believe God has revealed to us by giving us the intelligence to measure something such as the speed of light and say it doesn't hold true when it comes to measuring light from stars because it goes against a literal 6 day creation.  

I'm not sure that the context of the 1 Cor passage is the same as how you are using it. But nonetheless what I gather from your response is that perhaps in God's creating process he just threw in dinosaur bones and other "old earth/universe" stuff in just to throw us off?  That seems quite out of character for God, at least the way he portrays himself in the Bible.  While God performs many miracles and things beyond our understanding, he is straightforward and doesn't trick people -- at least not that I've seen.

And yes, I could agree that an old universe without macroevolution definitely could exist, but there seems to be plenty of scientific evidence that supports microevolution within the framework of God's natural order of things and his creating it all and not limiting him by any means.

There are a lot of great apps to use in worship as well.  I recently bought an iPad 2 for just a few simple but important uses.  One is to preach from.  I tried my Kindle Fire but the screen is just a bit too small.  Great for reading but that's about it. A second app I use regularly is OnSong which lets me keep all my sheet music on and display set lists when I lead worship (I plan on doing a review of this software for the Worship page on the Network).  I'm also in another band and keep all our songs on there.  I have an iPad holder that mounts to my mic stand so no more music stand in the way.  It's sooo versatile.  I'm an Apple guy now so all my devices sync which makes life even better.

Actually Leo, not only our band but the congregation appreciates it as well.  Our musicians (especially developing musicians) find it helpful in their musical development in that it pushes them to stay on tempo and they feel less shy when there is a whole band kind of feel.  Some have gotten better by leaps and bounds. They've become better, more confident musicians.

Our congregation appreciates the full sound and actually sing the contemporary songs with a lot more vigor.  So it enhances their worship experience as well.

AKD

I do certainly agree with the "Alpha Cities" approach.  I've been struggling in the rural setting for the past number of years seeing that they are by in large disconected from the more populated communities. It's true that cities set the culture.  That's probably why rural and even suburban communities can be years behind the cultural trends oblivious to how the majority of the nation is viewing the world and changing it.

I don't know what to do about the rural church situation though.  The communities and churches are shrinking because kids are moving away, farms are being taken over by larger corporate operations, and there are fewer career opportunities for people.  It's an inevitable slow death from what I can see.

While we shouldn't send these churches out to pasture, I fully agree that we need to be planting churches where they will make the greatest impact.

This is a good discussion on this.  It is heavy on my heart and plate. I've been trying to see if our church could even get back to the missional community aspect of the church.  I long for this in myself.  We already live like this and have begun to more intentionally form a missional community.  Our people don't know what to make of the way we live.  When I bring up the Missional Community to our leadership they look at me with blank stares and wonder what planet I'm from. They're in a programatic mode. I encourage reading.  I can't get anyone to look into this with any sort of desire or initiative.  I'm personally struggling with this and whether or not God is saying something new to my wife and me.

I guess that is your personal preference.  Our church sings a lot and loud even with a full band on stage. You seem to be suggesting that if there's a full band then it's entertainment which is not necessarily true. Not everyone worships the same way.  Your response also judges those who are being used by the Lord to lead people into the Lord's presence through contemporary music.  By it's nature, contemporary worship music is more of a band oriented style.  It speaks to many people in our culture in a way you may not appreciate. But God still inspires some very faithful, committed Christian men and women to write this contemporary worship music from the depths of their love for Christ.  Your assumptions are just that, assumptions and judgements.

This stuff if very timely for me as well, Brian.  Kudos on going for the DMin.  I thought about it, but decided I wanted to enjoy my last 15 years before official retirement age -- although I hope I don't HAVE to then.  Anyway, I am in process of discerning the church's (institution) in all off this.  I wonder if there are not some opposing paradigms in the midst of all this that are creating the strain between the "Mission" communities and "Church" communities.  The MC believes they are being church in the intentional everyday, the way it was originally intended with a gathering once a week or every-so-often to corporately celebrate the Spirit's work.  On the other hand, those in the "Church" institution see church more as a place and an event led by the scholars and layity who know their stuff, thus minimizing the need for the rest to "really know their stuff".  Discipleship is minimized and Church is separated from the everyday being on mission to, if nothing else, just living a good moral life.  Those are two very different paradigms at odds with each other.  

How does an immigrant church community see themselves on mission if it was never in their DNA from the outset?  Mission then becomes a program (outreach), is something you sign up for and do from time to time. But like the institutional church, mission is a separate entity from your life -- a thing on your list of things to do.  It's not part and parcel of who you ARE, your identity, like it seemed to be for those early Christians.
 

So my question then is how do we connect those two paradigms in a healthy way and is it even possible?

Thanks Chris,  I love the challenge for the church body as a community to be Christ among the world, in the neighborhood. The gospel story is OUR story encapsulating the true joy of the season.  I find that it is pure joy to take our congregation on a regular basis into the world we live to see people come alive as the gospel is proclaimed in its various forms.

Just as an aside, I believe God can speak truth to all of us even through the pope.  I also like what he said about capitalism. ;-)

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