Allen Kleine Deters

Don't know how I missed this entry, but I'll comment now... better late than never.

I think the bottom line is that in this new world of technology where cell phones and internet are an integral part of our western society and Mp3 players and computers are regular attachments we, as the church can use them in positive ways to engage people in ways they understand.

As a musician I am thankful for loops I can play through my computer during worship to support the music. A strong, decent quality sound system is a must in order to enhance the musical part of the worship experience that helps draw people in.  If you are using cheesy, low quality equipment and have not trained sound people to mix a full band (if you have one) then people hear poor quality.  And when you live in a world where people go to hear favorite bands at the local pub with a great sound system, they will notice poor quality sound and, whether we like it or not, will find that it effects how they listen and participate.

While I think we should always consider how we use technology, we should always balance it with the question, How is this helping people engage in worship in the most relevant way?

Great article Phil.  I'm going to show it to our council. Even out in here in rural isolated America, the same problem exists.  I've been wresting with the best way to do ministry and worship in that context, especially when your church is small to begin with.  I would like to see a study that trends that sort of attendance with giving habits.

Thanks for sharing your heart and vision for the denomination.  I can appreciate a lot of what you are saying especially because I too have been wrestling with the same thing -- preaching, teaching and being the church of the NT in a way that is true and real with a full orbed presentation based in our solid understanding and hermeneutic.  And I know the denomination has all the tools necessary to make it happen.

For me the starting point is, making disciples.  I believe if we're truly doing that, passion and mission driven by the working Holy Spirit will naturally happen.  When our focus is on "programs" or the next great outreach "program" we short change the Great Commission.

Allen

Mark, excellent critique.  It makes me wonder is Max represents many in the evangelical world who believe any disability is a "problem" for lack of a better word.  I wonder if a nice email to Max might encourage some good dialogue.  I know that he is pretty open to that sort of thing.

You might even get another article out of the interaction.  :-)

You certainly have to be careful and aware of any particular child sponsorship organization.  Investigation is important.  My wife and I sponsor a child through an organization that has very little admin costs.  Most of the money goes to actually helping the child, the family and community.  And while we may question whether or not these organizations should post pictures of children to raise funds, I understand that the western culture needs to see those faces.

I read recently of a number of studies that showed a huge difference in charitable giving when relaying facts and numbers in comparison to showing faces and stories.  Facts and stats and figures do two things to many people in the west: 

1. Numbers dehumanize the people in need which in turn causes many in the west to turn a blind eye.
2. These figures then become overwhelming to most people causing them to think there is little they can do and their gift is barely a drop in the bucket.

Having a picture and a story causes people to more than double their charitable donations.  Putting a name and a face to a need motivates people's compassionate action to a higher level.  To them it becomes personal.  For some people, and I'm thinking also of the non-believing western world (they don't always think in the same world view terms as Christians do or,in particular as we do here in the CRC), this at least moves them to greater charity and awareness of the needs of the world.

I wonder too if those who are putting themselves up for sponsorship feel a loss of dignity in the process.  Is that a western way of thinking that we assume is the same way they view it?  Or do they see it as an avenue to help their children and their situation since for some, especially the orphaned there are little resources available?  After spending some time in Africa and getting to know the people there, I ponder these things as well.

Thanks Sam, I love Bonhoeffer's writings.  These things sound so simple yet seem so difficult for people in a "me first" society. I often wonder if a key reason many of our churches struggle is this very issue of not being able to truly serve one another.  It's so much more than getting some meals together for a hurting family.  We've recently talked about this with our small group leaders and in our council.  How do we walk the journey together?  How do we love unconditionally and live intentionally?

Great stuff Sam.

Thanks

Thanks Tim,  I used my regular username and password and it didn't work, so I logged in with FB no prob.  Thanks for keeping the denom web humming.

Not sure what other people are thinking, especially in light the of the political tension here in the USA, but I thought this was a sound biblical perspective on the issue.  We are Christians first, the constitution and gov't law comes second.  I also love the defining of true biblical hospitality.  That's been hard to get across to my congregation even though they see us take in strangers and sometimes foreigners on a frequent basis.

Thanks Verlyn, I've really appreciated your two posts on using the languages.  My Logos 4 is open every week.  ;-)