I'm also commenting to follow this discussion. As someone who observed the last 3 synods closely, I would affirm that the discussions and decisions absolutely intended to mean 'full agreement' and left no room for anything less. When a delegate stands on the floor of synod and supports an overture because it will 'finally get the rot out', it is indicative of both the directive and the motive behind it. And it seems that synod, by its declarations that are now binding and unquestionable, has given no room for questions or further interpretation. So this post makes me wonder what's really going on in the CRC. Is this a reaction to the realization that this affects every church and every member who has questions and wants to act with integrity? (and doesn't want to sign on to the new hard line fundamental approach?) Maybe it's getting difficult to get elders, deacons, and classis/synod delegates?
Thanks, Ben, for pointing out that women's ordination is also under attack. After the last 3 synods, I have had many conversations with CRC people and pastors who say, "When they come for the women, I'm out." My response is always, "they are coming for them now. What are you doing about it?"
Hi Lloyd - it was during the 2024 Synod, and if I get time this weekend I will try to listen to the recordings and see if I can find it. I don't remember which session it was, so it could take awhile. I know it was spoken - I was there. I sat through every minute of the discussion and deliberation, and like Ben Bowater, I also heard many side conversations and lunch line comments, etc. I'll do my best to find it for you.
I spent several (many) hours watching the YouTube sessions because I had clearly written this quote in my notes and prayer journal from synod 2024. I would not have made it up so I know that I heard it. I checked with my good friends at CRC Communications and they said they didn't cut any comments from the 2024 discussion on the floor. And then finally, watching the Wednesday morning session on discipline, it came back to me that this was something that was said by a delegate to another delegate as I followed them down the stairs at the Calvin Chapel to use the bathroom. If you watch that session, there were many times when the group paused for the officers to huddle, and there were many 'side conversations' by delegates that took place in front of my seat in the front row of the gallery that were also interesting - but I am quite sure the 'we need to vote for this overture to finally get the rot out' words were spoken on the stairs heading downstairs during one of those pauses. I apologize for assuming from my notes that it was spoken from the floor during deliberation. Actually, after listening to a lot of the discussion again, I have to say that most of it was respectful and done with a spirit of Christian love for each other. There were few moments when it didn't seem so. There was a comment on Monday evening that homosexuality is 'rotten', but that isn't the quote I referred to earlier. I do think there is plenty of confusion about what abuse of power consists of and especially what spiritual abuse is, and that many of these abuses happen not only during discussions on the floor but on the 'side' (lunch lines, small group huddles, bathroom, dorms, etc). I think future synod delegates could use more training in this regard - and I would suggest they read a book like "Othered, Finding Belonging with the God Who Pursues the Hurt, Harmed & Marginalized" by Jenai Auman on the topic of spiritual abuse. I know that I learned a lot from reading that book.
I would highly recommend these resources - they are thorough, pastoral, and adaptable. The decisions of the last 3 synods will be difficult to process and implement - and these resources could prove very helpful. I would suggest using them at your classis level as well as the local church. I think these three categories of churches are good, but after 'bearing witness' to synod and the denomination over the last several years, I would add a fourth category - way at the top of the list. This would be churches that are happy with the new direction of the CRC and are ready to go back to their ministry of strengthening the families in the congregation and supporting missions overseas. They are happy this HSR discussion is done and they are eager not to think about it anymore. I've witnessed no desire to fully embrace and include the LGBTQ+ community into the churches in this 4th category. BUT - having said that, I would also say if this is where your church is, this resource is also for you. As part of the CRC body that is experiencing significant disruption around this, you also need to talk about it - and Sean and this resource will provide the tools to do that in a healthy way.
Eric, it looks like we agree on a lot here, including the importance of regular and intentional lament. As for synod, yes, the list of specific laments could be long. I think my point is that most people, churches, and classes will move on after synod with no further thought (and most people in the pew do not read the Acts of Synod). Before the CRC moves on, it seems some lament is appropriate. As Christ followers we lament with hope of Jesus' return, and it's good to say together, Come Lord Jesus, come quickly.
Thanks, Corey, I'm not a theologian, but I love the CRC and it's rich history. I just pray that God will do something new this year (and I have no idea what that is) to bless us all as we keep working together for the kingdom.
Thank you, Angie, for sharing Eloise's life and story. She truly was created and dearly loved by God. While I can't pretend to know your grief and pain, your courage is clear. God will use her life and your story to save others.
Amen, Karen! And a big WOW! on those quilts, Kory! However we do it, I agree that this is a good opportunity to pray together for our kids (big and small) and our educators. The editors for Lift Up Your Hearts also thought of marking this moment in worship, and included #274 - a song that says "In all our learning, give us grace to bow ourselves before your face..." (verse 2), along with a spoken prayer for teachers and learners. I also love the simple chorus-like feel of #129 - a song that young and old could sing together with simple percussion, repeating the phrase "We will follow, we will follow Jesus....through the valleys...to the mountains...in the city...in our classroom...in our calling.
Incorporate the scripture with the flow of the singing. There are many ways to weave music and the Word, depending on the scripture passage, of course. But here are some possibilities:
1) have the congregation sing vs. 1 of Speak O Lord (755 in LUYH), have the children speak the scripture, and then have all sing vs. 2 & 3.
2) choose a children's song that is a favorite from Sunday School that can lead into or out of the scripture, and have them sing (cong joining is option)
3) have a 'theme song' for the kids & congregation that is done each time the children do their scripture in church, such as #761 in LUYH (I Will Hide Your Word Inside My Heart), LUYH #762 - Ancient Words, or any song of your choice (Thy Word, by Amy Grant). Sometimes repetition is good not only for the kids but also for the congregation.
Posted in: Guidance on the Meaning of “Affirming the Confessions”
I'm also commenting to follow this discussion. As someone who observed the last 3 synods closely, I would affirm that the discussions and decisions absolutely intended to mean 'full agreement' and left no room for anything less. When a delegate stands on the floor of synod and supports an overture because it will 'finally get the rot out', it is indicative of both the directive and the motive behind it. And it seems that synod, by its declarations that are now binding and unquestionable, has given no room for questions or further interpretation. So this post makes me wonder what's really going on in the CRC. Is this a reaction to the realization that this affects every church and every member who has questions and wants to act with integrity? (and doesn't want to sign on to the new hard line fundamental approach?) Maybe it's getting difficult to get elders, deacons, and classis/synod delegates?
Posted in: Guidance on the Meaning of “Affirming the Confessions”
Thanks, Ben, for pointing out that women's ordination is also under attack. After the last 3 synods, I have had many conversations with CRC people and pastors who say, "When they come for the women, I'm out." My response is always, "they are coming for them now. What are you doing about it?"
Posted in: Guidance on the Meaning of “Affirming the Confessions”
Hi Lloyd - it was during the 2024 Synod, and if I get time this weekend I will try to listen to the recordings and see if I can find it. I don't remember which session it was, so it could take awhile. I know it was spoken - I was there. I sat through every minute of the discussion and deliberation, and like Ben Bowater, I also heard many side conversations and lunch line comments, etc. I'll do my best to find it for you.
Posted in: Guidance on the Meaning of “Affirming the Confessions”
I spent several (many) hours watching the YouTube sessions because I had clearly written this quote in my notes and prayer journal from synod 2024. I would not have made it up so I know that I heard it. I checked with my good friends at CRC Communications and they said they didn't cut any comments from the 2024 discussion on the floor. And then finally, watching the Wednesday morning session on discipline, it came back to me that this was something that was said by a delegate to another delegate as I followed them down the stairs at the Calvin Chapel to use the bathroom. If you watch that session, there were many times when the group paused for the officers to huddle, and there were many 'side conversations' by delegates that took place in front of my seat in the front row of the gallery that were also interesting - but I am quite sure the 'we need to vote for this overture to finally get the rot out' words were spoken on the stairs heading downstairs during one of those pauses. I apologize for assuming from my notes that it was spoken from the floor during deliberation. Actually, after listening to a lot of the discussion again, I have to say that most of it was respectful and done with a spirit of Christian love for each other. There were few moments when it didn't seem so. There was a comment on Monday evening that homosexuality is 'rotten', but that isn't the quote I referred to earlier. I do think there is plenty of confusion about what abuse of power consists of and especially what spiritual abuse is, and that many of these abuses happen not only during discussions on the floor but on the 'side' (lunch lines, small group huddles, bathroom, dorms, etc). I think future synod delegates could use more training in this regard - and I would suggest they read a book like "Othered, Finding Belonging with the God Who Pursues the Hurt, Harmed & Marginalized" by Jenai Auman on the topic of spiritual abuse. I know that I learned a lot from reading that book.
Posted in: Three Responses to Synod 2024
I would highly recommend these resources - they are thorough, pastoral, and adaptable. The decisions of the last 3 synods will be difficult to process and implement - and these resources could prove very helpful. I would suggest using them at your classis level as well as the local church.
I think these three categories of churches are good, but after 'bearing witness' to synod and the denomination over the last several years, I would add a fourth category - way at the top of the list. This would be churches that are happy with the new direction of the CRC and are ready to go back to their ministry of strengthening the families in the congregation and supporting missions overseas. They are happy this HSR discussion is done and they are eager not to think about it anymore. I've witnessed no desire to fully embrace and include the LGBTQ+ community into the churches in this 4th category. BUT - having said that, I would also say if this is where your church is, this resource is also for you. As part of the CRC body that is experiencing significant disruption around this, you also need to talk about it - and Sean and this resource will provide the tools to do that in a healthy way.
Posted in: Where is the Lament?
Eric, it looks like we agree on a lot here, including the importance of regular and intentional lament. As for synod, yes, the list of specific laments could be long. I think my point is that most people, churches, and classes will move on after synod with no further thought (and most people in the pew do not read the Acts of Synod). Before the CRC moves on, it seems some lament is appropriate. As Christ followers we lament with hope of Jesus' return, and it's good to say together, Come Lord Jesus, come quickly.
Posted in: Will God Do Something New?
Thanks, Corey, I'm not a theologian, but I love the CRC and it's rich history. I just pray that God will do something new this year (and I have no idea what that is) to bless us all as we keep working together for the kingdom.
Posted in: What to Do - And Not Do - in Church on Mother's Day
Beautiful! Thank you, Ken.
Posted in: Eloise's Story
Thank you, Angie, for sharing Eloise's life and story. She truly was created and dearly loved by God. While I can't pretend to know your grief and pain, your courage is clear. God will use her life and your story to save others.
Posted in: Back to School With a Blessing
Amen, Karen! And a big WOW! on those quilts, Kory! However we do it, I agree that this is a good opportunity to pray together for our kids (big and small) and our educators. The editors for Lift Up Your Hearts also thought of marking this moment in worship, and included #274 - a song that says "In all our learning, give us grace to bow ourselves before your face..." (verse 2), along with a spoken prayer for teachers and learners. I also love the simple chorus-like feel of #129 - a song that young and old could sing together with simple percussion, repeating the phrase "We will follow, we will follow Jesus....through the valleys...to the mountains...in the city...in our classroom...in our calling.
Posted in: Ideas for Children Reciting Scripture?
Incorporate the scripture with the flow of the singing. There are many ways to weave music and the Word, depending on the scripture passage, of course. But here are some possibilities:
1) have the congregation sing vs. 1 of Speak O Lord (755 in LUYH), have the children speak the scripture, and then have all sing vs. 2 & 3.
2) choose a children's song that is a favorite from Sunday School that can lead into or out of the scripture, and have them sing (cong joining is option)
3) have a 'theme song' for the kids & congregation that is done each time the children do their scripture in church, such as #761 in LUYH (I Will Hide Your Word Inside My Heart), LUYH #762 - Ancient Words, or any song of your choice (Thy Word, by Amy Grant). Sometimes repetition is good not only for the kids but also for the congregation.
Posted in: Dinner Church or Meal Church?
This was just posted this week - check out this new approach to dinner and church. https://www.crcna.org/news-and-views/getting-know-your-neighbors