I appreciate your forthright posting on a possible problem with our preaching in the CRC. Since I graduated Calvin Seminary in 1969, I have had some preaching exposure on both sides of the pulpit. One Sunday a married couple said I was the worst preacher they had ever heard. Another couple said I was the best. My present pastor graduated Calvin seminary in 2006 and is a remarkable preacher. I'm rather certain that he is not the only one.
A suggestion. Would it be possible to gather a few of the persons who have observed this flaw in us and commented to you about it to meet with a few of the professors at Calvin Seminary to discuss this issue? Since these comments come from a rather wide swathe of the Canadian side of the CRC at least, we should not permit the discussion to die. Perhaps a couple of poor sermons or audio/video examples could be provided the professors and whatever weaknesses that would be found could be shared with the pastors in a confidential manner. Maybe relatively minor adjustments could be made by these pastors that would make their sermons much better. Further teaching in preaching could be provided. Nothing should stop us from addressing this issue with significant resources. No ones job need be at stake unless of course after considerable efforts there is no improvement.
Keith, I hope you are right about this. Preaching is very important to the church and where it is lacking, it should be corrected. This is something we can get our minds, hearts, and resources around relatively easily.
I'm wondering if we are really doing this church planitng in a way which glorifies God, is good stewardship of
church planters gifts and family health when we try t do it on a financial shoe string. Yours is the second writing I read today about church planting in DC and Kansas City/ Both done on a shoestring budget. The one in DC closing before two years had passed and the one in KC still ggoing after four years.
What troubles me who is defining this church planting model? Why so much demanded of the church planter? This sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me.
Is this really the best model we can come up within the CRCNA?
I'm wondering if it is so easy to discern what ecclesiastical matters are and are not. Karl mention s racial relations for example. Certainly this could not mean that the church does not have the expertise to declare apartheid a sin which we did. It might mean that the church could not declare the KKK an association to which a Christian might belong or could it since we seem to know that Christians may not belong to lodges. It seems that a sermon on racial relations is demanded by the scriptures. How would love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself not speak to racial relations as well as other relations. Justice is also difficult. The Bible is clear that God hates injustice. The church surely could not advocate injustice. Amos was convinced that "skimping the measure, boosting the price and cheating with dishonest scales" was wrong no matter what sphere we might be talking about. He felt compelled to say in the name of God "let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream." Granted we do not know exactly what he meant by justice here but if we ever found such a thing it would be incombent on the church to speak out against it regardless of sphere sovereignty. The law of God transcends spheres. How else could we be in the politics of abortion? What about fair wages? The Bible says God is for it and that people who failed to pay the workmen who mowed their fields are in danger of God's judgment. The CRCNA would be derelict if it did not say at least this much. Right? I do fear that sphere sovereignty can be a barrier to speaking out on moral and ethical issues. It provides cover for the church and its leaders. It does function as a useful tool in making decisions that are not clearly supported by scripture and the creeds.
Yes Scott I can identify. I grew up in the CRC of the 1950's and 60's in Leota MN. I never heard about the liturgical year until way after Seminary. I had a hard time accepting it mainly becasue I did not think it proper to relive the history of redemption in our personal lives. "It is finished" seemed to me to mean enough with the sin problem. The cross is behind us. I still have trouble with this business of repeating the story of redemption to be honest. Why can we not live in the power of the resurrection every Sunday and every day? Is this not a waste of time? A tyrranical hold of the evil one to keep us in the defeat of our sin rather than in the once for all victory of our Lord? Is this not pretending that we live in Romans 7 and have not yet moved on to Romans 8? I do not think our Pentecostal brothers and sisters practice this, I doubt whether more conservative Reformation churches do such as the Protestant Reformed, URC, or even PCA? Also Advent has been turned into a mini-lenten season. Sometimes I long for the good ole Leota days when we liturically sinned with a passion.
I respectfully diaagree. I think I have had enough CEO leadership for sure here in the US. Supposedly some of our brightest and best CEO's manage to build the "Great Recession" here and I am not impresed with their leadership. I am impresed with their salaries, retirement packages, and conventions. I know you are speaking of CEO's with a strong Christian, Kuyperian and stewardship perspective.
Still I would like to follow the Catholic Church in their selection of a Pope. They chose a theologian with scholary books and articles to his credit and someone with a strong ethical sense that could help them deal with their issues.
I would go for a professor of religion, philosophy, theology at one of our Christian Colleges or seminaries. Just look at the religion faculty at Calvin right now. There you find a man who wrote Desiring the Kingdom:Worship, Worldview and cultural formation and cultural liturgies Vol 1, or the Prof who wrote: Christian Virtues for Everyday Life,Etc. Many of these people have PH.D,s and demonstrate an understanding of the modern mind, church challenges, and opportunities.
The CRCNA needs leadership with excellence in theology.
My version is things are not looking good for reforming the office of deacon. First clue is: Synod chose to deal with a report from its advisory committee, one appointed in the last days before synod convenes and meets a couple times for a few hours as opposed to a committee that met over a period of several years for several times and actully produced a well studied along with reformational recommendations. I was not at synod, but what were they thinking? Yes I know the process was not stopped by doing this but why slow it down?
I think it's too bad that the CRC never did anything about article 18 in the Belgic confession concerning the Anabaptists who deny that Christ came in human flesh. It is very doubtful if any Anabaptists today hold to such a heresy. Check on the Mennonite, Amish and other websites. Now if the 3 translations are approved by synod, we will need to immendiately change it with an overture to synod.
I do not know where to start. Most of what you say is beyond dispute. Thanks for such a well thought out response. However I do not know who are what you are speaking of when you refer to the "gospel according to today's evangelism." Is this a reference to ministers in the CRC, perhaps a specific group of CRC pastors? I do know that the greek (euangelizo) from which we get the word evangelism is used nearly synomously with the greek word for preach (parakaleo) I know that the angel "evangelized" the shepherds (Luke 2:10), that Jesus proclaimed the evangel ( Mk1: 15) and Paul was not ashamed of the evangel and was eager to evangelize (preach) to the people in Rome. This leads me to think that we could call all our preachers evangelists and that our task is to evangelize the world. I have a very high regard for evangelism as well as preaching because they are one and the same. But the audiences change. Not the gospel. Paul makes this clear in 1 Corinthians 9: 19-23. It seems then that the preacher must adapt his message for the benefit of his audience so that "by all means we/I might save some."
I will just throw this out there. To muddy the waters Synod 1996 determined: "Any request for transfer to another classis may include grounds that go beyond the sole matter of geographic proximity; synod is at liberty to consider such grounds in its disposition of the request". (Manual of CRC Government, p.561.) That suggests to me that Synod can consider other grounds besides geography in deciding Overtures 3 & 4.
Posted in: Our Biggest Problem: Poor Preaching
Hi Kieth,
I appreciate your forthright posting on a possible problem with our preaching in the CRC. Since I graduated Calvin Seminary in 1969, I have had some preaching exposure on both sides of the pulpit. One Sunday a married couple said I was the worst preacher they had ever heard. Another couple said I was the best. My present pastor graduated Calvin seminary in 2006 and is a remarkable preacher. I'm rather certain that he is not the only one.
A suggestion. Would it be possible to gather a few of the persons who have observed this flaw in us and commented to you about it to meet with a few of the professors at Calvin Seminary to discuss this issue? Since these comments come from a rather wide swathe of the Canadian side of the CRC at least, we should not permit the discussion to die. Perhaps a couple of poor sermons or audio/video examples could be provided the professors and whatever weaknesses that would be found could be shared with the pastors in a confidential manner. Maybe relatively minor adjustments could be made by these pastors that would make their sermons much better. Further teaching in preaching could be provided. Nothing should stop us from addressing this issue with significant resources. No ones job need be at stake unless of course after considerable efforts there is no improvement.
Keith, I hope you are right about this. Preaching is very important to the church and where it is lacking, it should be corrected. This is something we can get our minds, hearts, and resources around relatively easily.
Larry Van Essen
Posted in: Celebrating the Ordinary (and Five Years of Church Planting)
I'm wondering if we are really doing this church planitng in a way which glorifies God, is good stewardship of
church planters gifts and family health when we try t do it on a financial shoe string. Yours is the second writing I read today about church planting in DC and Kansas City/ Both done on a shoestring budget. The one in DC closing before two years had passed and the one in KC still ggoing after four years.
What troubles me who is defining this church planting model? Why so much demanded of the church planter? This sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me.
Is this really the best model we can come up within the CRCNA?
Posted in: The Voice of The Church in Society
I'm wondering if it is so easy to discern what ecclesiastical matters are and are not. Karl mention s racial relations for example. Certainly this could not mean that the church does not have the expertise to declare apartheid a sin which we did. It might mean that the church could not declare the KKK an association to which a Christian might belong or could it since we seem to know that Christians may not belong to lodges. It seems that a sermon on racial relations is demanded by the scriptures. How would love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself not speak to racial relations as well as other relations. Justice is also difficult. The Bible is clear that God hates injustice. The church surely could not advocate injustice. Amos was convinced that "skimping the measure, boosting the price and cheating with dishonest scales" was wrong no matter what sphere we might be talking about. He felt compelled to say in the name of God "let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream." Granted we do not know exactly what he meant by justice here but if we ever found such a thing it would be incombent on the church to speak out against it regardless of sphere sovereignty. The law of God transcends spheres. How else could we be in the politics of abortion? What about fair wages? The Bible says God is for it and that people who failed to pay the workmen who mowed their fields are in danger of God's judgment. The CRCNA would be derelict if it did not say at least this much. Right? I do fear that sphere sovereignty can be a barrier to speaking out on moral and ethical issues. It provides cover for the church and its leaders. It does function as a useful tool in making decisions that are not clearly supported by scripture and the creeds.
Posted in: Mardi Gras
Yes Scott I can identify. I grew up in the CRC of the 1950's and 60's in Leota MN. I never heard about the liturgical year until way after Seminary. I had a hard time accepting it mainly becasue I did not think it proper to relive the history of redemption in our personal lives. "It is finished" seemed to me to mean enough with the sin problem. The cross is behind us. I still have trouble with this business of repeating the story of redemption to be honest. Why can we not live in the power of the resurrection every Sunday and every day? Is this not a waste of time? A tyrranical hold of the evil one to keep us in the defeat of our sin rather than in the once for all victory of our Lord? Is this not pretending that we live in Romans 7 and have not yet moved on to Romans 8? I do not think our Pentecostal brothers and sisters practice this, I doubt whether more conservative Reformation churches do such as the Protestant Reformed, URC, or even PCA? Also Advent has been turned into a mini-lenten season. Sometimes I long for the good ole Leota days when we liturically sinned with a passion.
Posted in: Who Will Lead Our Denomination?
I respectfully diaagree. I think I have had enough CEO leadership for sure here in the US. Supposedly some of our brightest and best CEO's manage to build the "Great Recession" here and I am not impresed with their leadership. I am impresed with their salaries, retirement packages, and conventions. I know you are speaking of CEO's with a strong Christian, Kuyperian and stewardship perspective.
Still I would like to follow the Catholic Church in their selection of a Pope. They chose a theologian with scholary books and articles to his credit and someone with a strong ethical sense that could help them deal with their issues.
I would go for a professor of religion, philosophy, theology at one of our Christian Colleges or seminaries. Just look at the religion faculty at Calvin right now. There you find a man who wrote Desiring the Kingdom:Worship, Worldview and cultural formation and cultural liturgies Vol 1, or the Prof who wrote: Christian Virtues for Everyday Life,Etc. Many of these people have PH.D,s and demonstrate an understanding of the modern mind, church challenges, and opportunities.
The CRCNA needs leadership with excellence in theology.
Posted in: Diakonia — We've Passed This Way Before
My version is things are not looking good for reforming the office of deacon. First clue is: Synod chose to deal with a report from its advisory committee, one appointed in the last days before synod convenes and meets a couple times for a few hours as opposed to a committee that met over a period of several years for several times and actully produced a well studied along with reformational recommendations. I was not at synod, but what were they thinking? Yes I know the process was not stopped by doing this but why slow it down?
Larry
Posted in: When Churches Start Becoming Experts on Pipelines, Does That Mean Oil Companies Can Become Experts on Theology?
I think that oil companies can become experts on all the things you mention providing they do their homework.
Posted in: 2011 Report: Translation of 3 Reformed Standards
I think it's too bad that the CRC never did anything about article 18 in the Belgic confession concerning the Anabaptists who deny that Christ came in human flesh. It is very doubtful if any Anabaptists today hold to such a heresy. Check on the Mennonite, Amish and other websites. Now if the 3 translations are approved by synod, we will need to immendiately change it with an overture to synod.
Larry Van Essen
Posted in: 2011 Report: Translation of 3 Reformed Standards
Hi Dan,
Where does it say in the new translation that the parenthetical remarks are historical and not true of the Anabaptists today?
Larry
Posted in: “Outreach” Must Have Two E's!
Could it be because the gospels and Acts make it very clear.
Posted in: “Outreach” Must Have Two E's!
I do not know where to start. Most of what you say is beyond dispute. Thanks for such a well thought out response. However I do not know who are what you are speaking of when you refer to the "gospel according to today's evangelism." Is this a reference to ministers in the CRC, perhaps a specific group of CRC pastors? I do know that the greek (euangelizo) from which we get the word evangelism is used nearly synomously with the greek word for preach (parakaleo) I know that the angel "evangelized" the shepherds (Luke 2:10), that Jesus proclaimed the evangel ( Mk1: 15) and Paul was not ashamed of the evangel and was eager to evangelize (preach) to the people in Rome. This leads me to think that we could call all our preachers evangelists and that our task is to evangelize the world. I have a very high regard for evangelism as well as preaching because they are one and the same. But the audiences change. Not the gospel. Paul makes this clear in 1 Corinthians 9: 19-23. It seems then that the preacher must adapt his message for the benefit of his audience so that "by all means we/I might save some."
Thanks
Larry
Posted in: Overtures 3 & 4: Laying Out the Debate
I will just throw this out there. To muddy the waters Synod 1996 determined: "Any request for transfer to another classis may include grounds that go beyond the sole matter of geographic proximity; synod is at liberty to consider such grounds in its disposition of the request". (Manual of CRC Government, p.561.) That suggests to me that Synod can consider other grounds besides geography in deciding Overtures 3 & 4.
Larry