First step would be to eliminate special consideration for black, Hispanic, and Korean members. A special classis for Korean Churches? How about a special classis for Dutch churches?
In the press, any reference to "race" most always boils down to complaints from or about the social status of African-American, second, Hispanic people. Because of miscegenation, at least on the West Coast, "race" is self-designated except for very obviously dark skinned or very obviously Mexican/Central American people. In my neighborhood half the "black" or "Hispanic" people could not be visually identified. How can I discriminate against them if I can't visually identify them? They say, "I am a minority and you don't like me."
By the way, in Snohomish County, WA, Korean people are not legally qualified to call themselves a minority. Why? Maybe because half the new business starts are by Korean-Americans. In this country, only those who are less financially successful or less educated than white people are "minorities?"
In the 1970's the City of Seattle decided to promote on the basis of race. People who had been white for years by some miracle turned into something else.
Truth, the US is the greatest country in the history of world for the working class of any "race." There is no economic reason why any adult with normal health and intelligence should be poor except for a stupendus run of bad luck an we don't believe in luck, right?
Prior to the Babel incident we were of a single culture. We must undo that damage. <G> It is being done. In the western nations thanks to population mixing the old cultural barriers are going down. The young generation is not restricting their pool of potential mates by race, culture, or religion. In a couple of generations North America will mostly be a nice brownish tan color with a generic Christianized national religion. The Catholic Church will adapt better than the Reformed churches but the Islamic call to worship seven times a day will never catch on.
If the old barriers are down on what basis will young people choose a mate? I suggest education, IQ, and ambition, also physical (sexual) attraction. I can see it happening. We will probably self-segregate into a new worker class and a new leader class.
Mostly because we are the new kid on the block? The Catholic Church excels in letting local congregations use local pagan customs in worship without losing the basic Catholic dogma, ritual, and symbolism. There is no visually mistaking a Catholic Church for some other denomination in any town. There is always the name and the cross.
Look at the names of the new attempted church plants. Home Missions seems to want to plant stealth congregations with weird names, no reference to the CRC , sometimes no reference to Christianity in the name.Even old congregations are changing names so people driving by will not know they are CRC.
The CRC was founded as a Dutch church and now any reference to our (yours, not mine - I never heard of the CRC until 20 years ago) heritage is considered evil by our leadership. The whole push is to become a non-denominational multi everything something. It is plan schizophrenic to push the new confession while maintaining a Korean classis and special subdivisions for other racial/cultural groups. Hispanic is wonderful but Dutch is evil.
I'm no fan of generic "Christian" grade schools but what does the CRC have that earns it the right to be considered a Christian denomination? In other words, what do we do that other denomination don't do better? If we dump Dutch culture the only thing is our emphasis on higher education, particularly Calvin Col and Sem, and the Dutch interpretation of John Calvin, which is vastly different than Presbyterian theology - and the political/social outworking of the theology is vastly different. Without emphasizing Dutch theology there is no point to continuing the denomination. I'm no preacher or scholar but if you preachers on this list can't see the difference and don't teach the difference then we might as well join the OPC.
I've read maybe a dozen Bible translations cover to cover and for study, for accuracy, for poetry for the quality as English literature, the NIV is one of the worst! Yet some of our leaders say that it it is to difficult to read as a pew Bible. What does this say about about the CRC Christian school system?
It took me 30 years to find a denomination with which I agreed theologically and in practice. I signed on only to discover our leadership is dumping the old ways as fast as they can. Enough rant for now
Why are people "proud" over things which they had no control?
In God's eyes we are all sinners.
Statistically, we are not all "equal" If we were, no one would bother to collect statistics.
I have never felt guilty about acts of other people unless I actively contributed to the action.
Prejudice is acting in ignorance but discrimination is action base upon statistical or other evidence. For example, Consumer Reports tells us that some refrigerators are "better than" other refrigerators. Beagles are equal to French poodles?" What might that mean?" is not "race" just another way of writing "sub-species?"
Michelle Obama, for example. A story on TV reports that she had white ancestors going back 200 years yet she is "black." If her children marry white people Mrs. Obama's grandchildren will be "black." If the grandchildren marry white people the great-grandchildren will be "black," although "mixed race" is becoming popular among brown/tan skinned people. But never "white."
I saw a 10 by 10 (?) photo montage representing shades of human skin color with darkest black in the upper left corner and white in the lower right corner. Only one picture out of the 100 or more looked white. The color variation across the ranks and files appeared accurate to my eyes.
Another few generations and "white" will be a small minority in the US, probably a good thing.
I support the concept that OUR missionaries should be 100% supported by Synod. At the least, "A deal's a deal." If a missionary is not doing his part, fire him for cause. If the missionary is doing his part . . . how is Synod's unilaterially changing contracts in mid stream different than companies that are scrapping pension plans for senior employees?
The financial condition of CRWM and CRWRC must be at least five years old. So how many new missionaries have been put on the payroll in the last 3 years? Just curious. CRC's strong point is theology. Our weak point is business management.
At least half of most every church budget goes to making the members feel good and/or to increase the take aka membership. In 60 years of church going, I only know of one congregation - NOT Reformed - that gave 50% of their budget to missionaries and have heard they have gone main stream. I am sure that every one of you knows of a local congregation that is not paying its Synodical membership dues - call them what you want - because the congregation is paying for, even borrowing for, a cosmetic or building expansion building project.
Recently read that there are 5 billion people in the world who live on $2/day or less. If every Christian in the US and Canada sold everything they owned and gave it to CRWM and other charity organizations, would there be enough to help those 5 billion people temporarially live on $3/day?
I remember in the 1950's hearing commercials for "Save The Children" and such. These are BIG national charities. If these charities were successful one might expect that by now there should be enough "saved" children who are thankful enough to make the charities self-propagating. Same with "Habitat." Apparently saving bodies is not more successful than the last 2,000 years of saving souls.
Not saying that we should not help people where and when we can if the Holy Spirit leads us to help a specific missionary or other person. Personally, at least half the time I have tried to personally help one of my neighbors, their situation got worse. Does the Bible "say" anything about "sending good money after bad?"
Well stated. An interesting anology. Maybe "The benevolent role of the World Missions board toward its missionaries (that) has been a touchstone of that relationship" is the primary teaching for the CRC supporting congregations and for the people we try to help. Must a smaller mission force result in a smaller impact on our world for Christ? Isn't that up to the Holy Spirit to decide?
Probably wrong, but I think the next 50 years in North America will see an economic/social structure similar to that described in Downton Abbey but without the benevolent ownership/leadership. The Gini Index will grow while the poor and the working class retains all our "rights" as defined by our constitutions and case law.
Back when I was a dispensational baptist I knew exactly what "Alpha still works" meant and implied. Since I read "The Institutes" cover to cover and "got reformed" I no longer know. How does the concept of "Alpha still works" apply to the teaching of John Calvin? The Holy Spirit retroactively applies the Alpha text to a specific person before God created the universe? God regenerated (past tense) a person because God knew the person would attend an Alfa meeting?
Posted in: Violent Crime, Abuse, and Disability
What does legal abortions have to do with assaults against people?
Posted in: Biblical Racial Reconciliation: Let's Begin the Dialogue!
Might. I think, at least in the USA, the use of "race" is a tacit (not understood?) admission that "white is a regressive characteristic.
Posted in: Biblical Racial Reconciliation: Let's Begin the Dialogue!
How about an honest conversation about "race?"
First step would be to eliminate special consideration for black, Hispanic, and Korean members. A special classis for Korean Churches? How about a special classis for Dutch churches?
In the press, any reference to "race" most always boils down to complaints from or about the social status of African-American, second, Hispanic people. Because of miscegenation, at least on the West Coast, "race" is self-designated except for very obviously dark skinned or very obviously Mexican/Central American people. In my neighborhood half the "black" or "Hispanic" people could not be visually identified. How can I discriminate against them if I can't visually identify them? They say, "I am a minority and you don't like me."
By the way, in Snohomish County, WA, Korean people are not legally qualified to call themselves a minority. Why? Maybe because half the new business starts are by Korean-Americans. In this country, only those who are less financially successful or less educated than white people are "minorities?"
In the 1970's the City of Seattle decided to promote on the basis of race. People who had been white for years by some miracle turned into something else.
Truth, the US is the greatest country in the history of world for the working class of any "race." There is no economic reason why any adult with normal health and intelligence should be poor except for a stupendus run of bad luck an we don't believe in luck, right?
Shall I rant on? Time for church.
Posted in: Biblical Racial Reconciliation: Let's Begin the Dialogue!
Prior to the Babel incident we were of a single culture. We must undo that damage. <G> It is being done. In the western nations thanks to population mixing the old cultural barriers are going down. The young generation is not restricting their pool of potential mates by race, culture, or religion. In a couple of generations North America will mostly be a nice brownish tan color with a generic Christianized national religion. The Catholic Church will adapt better than the Reformed churches but the Islamic call to worship seven times a day will never catch on.
If the old barriers are down on what basis will young people choose a mate? I suggest education, IQ, and ambition, also physical (sexual) attraction. I can see it happening. We will probably self-segregate into a new worker class and a new leader class.
Posted in: Biblical Racial Reconciliation: Let's Begin the Dialogue!
Mostly because we are the new kid on the block? The Catholic Church excels in letting local congregations use local pagan customs in worship without losing the basic Catholic dogma, ritual, and symbolism. There is no visually mistaking a Catholic Church for some other denomination in any town. There is always the name and the cross.
Look at the names of the new attempted church plants. Home Missions seems to want to plant stealth congregations with weird names, no reference to the CRC , sometimes no reference to Christianity in the name.Even old congregations are changing names so people driving by will not know they are CRC.
The CRC was founded as a Dutch church and now any reference to our (yours, not mine - I never heard of the CRC until 20 years ago) heritage is considered evil by our leadership. The whole push is to become a non-denominational multi everything something. It is plan schizophrenic to push the new confession while maintaining a Korean classis and special subdivisions for other racial/cultural groups. Hispanic is wonderful but Dutch is evil.
I'm no fan of generic "Christian" grade schools but what does the CRC have that earns it the right to be considered a Christian denomination? In other words, what do we do that other denomination don't do better? If we dump Dutch culture the only thing is our emphasis on higher education, particularly Calvin Col and Sem, and the Dutch interpretation of John Calvin, which is vastly different than Presbyterian theology - and the political/social outworking of the theology is vastly different. Without emphasizing Dutch theology there is no point to continuing the denomination. I'm no preacher or scholar but if you preachers on this list can't see the difference and don't teach the difference then we might as well join the OPC.
I've read maybe a dozen Bible translations cover to cover and for study, for accuracy, for poetry for the quality as English literature, the NIV is one of the worst! Yet some of our leaders say that it it is to difficult to read as a pew Bible. What does this say about about the CRC Christian school system?
It took me 30 years to find a denomination with which I agreed theologically and in practice. I signed on only to discover our leadership is dumping the old ways as fast as they can. Enough rant for now
Posted in: Biblical Racial Reconciliation: Let's Begin the Dialogue!
Why are people "proud" over things which they had no control?
In God's eyes we are all sinners.
Statistically, we are not all "equal" If we were, no one would bother to collect statistics.
I have never felt guilty about acts of other people unless I actively contributed to the action.
Prejudice is acting in ignorance but discrimination is action base upon statistical or other evidence. For example, Consumer Reports tells us that some refrigerators are "better than" other refrigerators. Beagles are equal to French poodles?" What might that mean?" is not "race" just another way of writing "sub-species?"
Posted in: Biblical Racial Reconciliation: Let's Begin the Dialogue!
Michelle Obama, for example. A story on TV reports that she had white ancestors going back 200 years yet she is "black." If her children marry white people Mrs. Obama's grandchildren will be "black." If the grandchildren marry white people the great-grandchildren will be "black," although "mixed race" is becoming popular among brown/tan skinned people. But never "white."
I saw a 10 by 10 (?) photo montage representing shades of human skin color with darkest black in the upper left corner and white in the lower right corner. Only one picture out of the 100 or more looked white. The color variation across the ranks and files appeared accurate to my eyes.
Another few generations and "white" will be a small minority in the US, probably a good thing.
Posted in: Downton Abbey and World Missions
I support the concept that OUR missionaries should be 100% supported by Synod. At the least, "A deal's a deal." If a missionary is not doing his part, fire him for cause. If the missionary is doing his part . . . how is Synod's unilaterially changing contracts in mid stream different than companies that are scrapping pension plans for senior employees?
The financial condition of CRWM and CRWRC must be at least five years old. So how many new missionaries have been put on the payroll in the last 3 years? Just curious. CRC's strong point is theology. Our weak point is business management.
At least half of most every church budget goes to making the members feel good and/or to increase the take aka membership. In 60 years of church going, I only know of one congregation - NOT Reformed - that gave 50% of their budget to missionaries and have heard they have gone main stream. I am sure that every one of you knows of a local congregation that is not paying its Synodical membership dues - call them what you want - because the congregation is paying for, even borrowing for, a cosmetic or building expansion building project.
Recently read that there are 5 billion people in the world who live on $2/day or less. If every Christian in the US and Canada sold everything they owned and gave it to CRWM and other charity organizations, would there be enough to help those 5 billion people temporarially live on $3/day?
I remember in the 1950's hearing commercials for "Save The Children" and such. These are BIG national charities. If these charities were successful one might expect that by now there should be enough "saved" children who are thankful enough to make the charities self-propagating. Same with "Habitat." Apparently saving bodies is not more successful than the last 2,000 years of saving souls.
Not saying that we should not help people where and when we can if the Holy Spirit leads us to help a specific missionary or other person. Personally, at least half the time I have tried to personally help one of my neighbors, their situation got worse. Does the Bible "say" anything about "sending good money after bad?"
Your forum cynic,
bill
Posted in: Downton Abbey and World Missions
Wendy
Thanks for the reply. I will get the book.
Bill
Posted in: Downton Abbey and World Missions
Well stated. An interesting anology. Maybe "The benevolent role of the World Missions board toward its missionaries (that) has been a touchstone of that relationship" is the primary teaching for the CRC supporting congregations and for the people we try to help. Must a smaller mission force result in a smaller impact on our world for Christ? Isn't that up to the Holy Spirit to decide?
Probably wrong, but I think the next 50 years in North America will see an economic/social structure similar to that described in Downton Abbey but without the benevolent ownership/leadership. The Gini Index will grow while the poor and the working class retains all our "rights" as defined by our constitutions and case law.
Posted in: Alpha Still Works!
Back when I was a dispensational baptist I knew exactly what "Alpha still works" meant and implied. Since I read "The Institutes" cover to cover and "got reformed" I no longer know. How does the concept of "Alpha still works" apply to the teaching of John Calvin? The Holy Spirit retroactively applies the Alpha text to a specific person before God created the universe? God regenerated (past tense) a person because God knew the person would attend an Alfa meeting?
Posted in: Alpha Still Works!
"I fully agree with your assessment: /He works/, and happily /He/ uses Alpha
as an effective tool."
Agree! But God uses Alpha for exactly what? To regenerate people? To convert regenerate people? Or to invite converted people into the Church?