Merit is pretty subjective would not you agree? Take pastors and elders roles in church order, pastors make all kind of assumptions based on a perceived merit. You argued against this previously.
Rob don't be embarrassed about the apparent conflict of ideology. They mesh quite naturally. We are not giving them our representation but allowing them to have representation.
I suspect you guys will object to this this kind of reasoning, But if we are equals in Christ lets find a common ground to frame this discussion in a context respect and realization that not one of us is completely objective.
Thanks Dutch, I was asking rhetorically. I knew who he was from the article and researched him extensively. I respect accomplished people but I know wisdom and knowledge are distinctly different. The kind of leadership and insite on some of these issue's are matters of the heart not the brain. Thanks Dutch you are someone I can relate to.
You are perceptive to see me through the words. The experience with your father and what you guys shared is precious. Now look at good fruit that God created from that difficult experience and pain. In other words go look in mirror!!
Mark I wouldn't worry about it, God said the after life is going to be great. I don't think we can imagine what we will be like or how we will look. We are restricted to limits of human thought and Jesus advised us not worry about things we truly cannot comprehend.
Mark is pointing out the how disabled people are judged incomplete persons with those kind of statements at funerals. We all know about our spiritual incompleteness but these statements reflect added emphasizes to the view of disabled individuals. If they would say this at everyone's funeral that would be different. Remember, this isn't about what pastors say at funerals but hidden bias in our every day thought that create false images of value. These things seem innocuous until your on the receiving end.
This actually, brings up a lot of profound questions. Like what are we now?(brain,body,soul) Remember, depended on senses that available determines what we know. Imagine a human without any input. Lots of questions about what we will be in Heaven are important to the decisions we make now.
Being I,m the only one commnting as a obviously disabled person unless someones holding back, . I am not sure it matters because it is my perpective based on what know as Christian and as broken person. I think everyone wants to think we are being fair when talk about things like sickness and other types of dysfuctionj. I think erveryone here has a grasp on God's calling to treat the least of these with care and honor. I think as John mentions, that it gets frustrating trying to be socialy correct when the thing that counts the most is intent and and equal decorum. No reverse discimanation . The facts in these and even racial issue's well understood. Everyone should be treated equally as God intended. I believe we are trying so hard to due these things correrct accorrding to our perspective of God's commands. In fact I actually believe we are trying to hard.
God knows our intent and maybe Mark he has correct Godly concept of this issue. I don't know his heart and I always try entertain the idea that I did't read it correct or his words mean something different to him. John, I know what your talkng about some people seem to rise up agianst disease and disability. They are normal in a lot of situations. I like using and recieving banter from people I trust. Even at my disfunctions exspense. ( I have brain damage what is your reason?) It makes you feel like part of society.
What you may not completly grasp is most of us that do have no real viable options if we are going to perform to the nesessary exspectations of our peers. It is a lot of work to make ourselves as acceptable as possible. I try respect other peoples perceptions by try with Will God grants you.
The other thing I keep in mind is that is extremly difficult grasp perspectives that you haven't experienced. Such as the words you have ALS or your Bi-polar. you try to imagine but it is impossible. When I was told I have secoudary proggresive MS and its prognoios it was sureal.The changes that occer along the way deepens your dependence on Christ and people who can help becomes a lifeline. AS your need grows Jesus gets bigger because you need him so badly. Most people I meet that don;t understand whats its like and may be insesitive to my appearance or actions doesn't bother me. I am no better.
You guys that feel there should be even treatment your correct. So I guess that means we are both metephors and we are both broken and require Jesus's grace to live wholey. We also should asume that its ok for disabled people should feel free to not worry about sensitivty in there words about normal people. You probobly wouldn't like some the words because I don't either. They are unfair to normal people because we are no better than normal people. It can be difficult at times to keep a health perspective that God intended. I find myself convicted by the Lord when I Judge people that don't have the atvantages of being broken. It is painful and profound experience. But did tell us it was going to be a narrow road.
The reformation never stops because while we are on earth we are to continuously seek more understanding that is built on the former reformers. We never arrive till we die.
Maintaining God's truth is going to be dangerous. . Chad I understand your concern, I to am aware that some changes would be wrong. It is comforting to know that we are saved by Grace of Christ and not by our works.
It is a sad day Mark, the disabled including myself need all the support we can get no matter if the organization is controversial to some! We need to keep focusing on the problems and issues that prevent help! A lot of people don’t like social security because of it’s a government program, but not turn down the benefits when they are available!
Posted in: The Love of God in Belhar?
Hi John and Rob,
Merit is pretty subjective would not you agree? Take pastors and elders roles in church order, pastors make all kind of assumptions based on a perceived merit. You argued against this previously.
Rob don't be embarrassed about the apparent conflict of ideology. They mesh quite naturally. We are not giving them our representation but allowing them to have representation.
I suspect you guys will object to this this kind of reasoning, But if we are equals in Christ lets find a common ground to frame this discussion in a context respect and realization that not one of us is completely objective.
Ken
Posted in: The Love of God in Belhar?
Thanks Dutch, I was asking rhetorically. I knew who he was from the article and researched him extensively. I respect accomplished people but I know wisdom and knowledge are distinctly different. The kind of leadership and insite on some of these issue's are matters of the heart not the brain. Thanks Dutch you are someone I can relate to.
Ken
Posted in: Good Intentions Gone Awry
Thankyou B-ver,
You are perceptive to see me through the words. The experience with your father and what you guys shared is precious. Now look at good fruit that God created from that difficult experience and pain. In other words go look in mirror!!
Posted in: Will People Have Disabilities in the New Heaven and Earth? Part 1
Mark I wouldn't worry about it, God said the after life is going to be great. I don't think we can imagine what we will be like or how we will look. We are restricted to limits of human thought and Jesus advised us not worry about things we truly cannot comprehend.
Ken
Posted in: Good Intentions Gone Awry
Wow, that surprises me Max would think that! Thx Mark
Posted in: Will People Have Disabilities in the New Heaven and Earth? Part 2
Tyl,
Mark is pointing out the how disabled people are judged incomplete persons with those kind of statements at funerals. We all know about our spiritual incompleteness but these statements reflect added emphasizes to the view of disabled individuals. If they would say this at everyone's funeral that would be different. Remember, this isn't about what pastors say at funerals but hidden bias in our every day thought that create false images of value. These things seem innocuous until your on the receiving end.
Ken
Posted in: Will People Have Disabilities in the New Heaven and Earth? Part 2
Gentlemen,
This actually, brings up a lot of profound questions. Like what are we now?(brain,body,soul) Remember, depended on senses that available determines what we know. Imagine a human without any input. Lots of questions about what we will be in Heaven are important to the decisions we make now.
Posted in: Good Intentions Gone Awry
Being I,m the only one commnting as a obviously disabled person unless someones holding back, . I am not sure it matters because it is my perpective based on what know as Christian and as broken person. I think everyone wants to think we are being fair when talk about things like sickness and other types of dysfuctionj. I think erveryone here has a grasp on God's calling to treat the least of these with care and honor. I think as John mentions, that it gets frustrating trying to be socialy correct when the thing that counts the most is intent and and equal decorum. No reverse discimanation . The facts in these and even racial issue's well understood. Everyone should be treated equally as God intended. I believe we are trying so hard to due these things correrct accorrding to our perspective of God's commands. In fact I actually believe we are trying to hard.
God knows our intent and maybe Mark he has correct Godly concept of this issue. I don't know his heart and I always try entertain the idea that I did't read it correct or his words mean something different to him. John, I know what your talkng about some people seem to rise up agianst disease and disability. They are normal in a lot of situations. I like using and recieving banter from people I trust. Even at my disfunctions exspense. ( I have brain damage what is your reason?) It makes you feel like part of society.
What you may not completly grasp is most of us that do have no real viable options if we are going to perform to the nesessary exspectations of our peers. It is a lot of work to make ourselves as acceptable as possible. I try respect other peoples perceptions by try with Will God grants you.
The other thing I keep in mind is that is extremly difficult grasp perspectives that you haven't experienced. Such as the words you have ALS or your Bi-polar. you try to imagine but it is impossible. When I was told I have secoudary proggresive MS and its prognoios it was sureal.The changes that occer along the way deepens your dependence on Christ and people who can help becomes a lifeline. AS your need grows Jesus gets bigger because you need him so badly. Most people I meet that don;t understand whats its like and may be insesitive to my appearance or actions doesn't bother me. I am no better.
You guys that feel there should be even treatment your correct. So I guess that means we are both metephors and we are both broken and require Jesus's grace to live wholey. We also should asume that its ok for disabled people should feel free to not worry about sensitivty in there words about normal people. You probobly wouldn't like some the words because I don't either. They are unfair to normal people because we are no better than normal people. It can be difficult at times to keep a health perspective that God intended. I find myself convicted by the Lord when I Judge people that don't have the atvantages of being broken. It is painful and profound experience. But did tell us it was going to be a narrow road.
Posted in: Form of Subscription: A Covenant for Officebearers
Chad,
The reformation never stops because while we are on earth we are to continuously seek more understanding that is built on the former reformers. We never arrive till we die.
Posted in: Form of Subscription: A Covenant for Officebearers
Hi Chad,
Maintaining God's truth is going to be dangerous. . Chad I understand your concern, I to am aware that some changes would be wrong. It is comforting to know that we are saved by Grace of Christ and not by our works.
Ken
Posted in: A Sad Day for People with Disabilities
It is a sad day Mark, the disabled including myself need all the support we can get no matter if the organization is controversial to some! We need to keep focusing on the problems and issues that prevent help! A lot of people don’t like social security because of it’s a government program, but not turn down the benefits when they are available!
Posted in: A Sad Day for People with Disabilities
Thank You Jonathan, This was suppose to be about disability!