Aha! Now we are getting somewhere. So there is no actual banking policy that looks at a person's skin tone and requires them to pay more for a loan. Instead, the OUTCOME of a particular activity (in this case, loans) appears unequal, thus the belief of White Privilege is that there must be some inherent racism in the system which causes the unequal outcome. Is that a fair summary?
Jeremy Oosterhouse makes a very good point. A lack of an official, clinical diagnosis does not necessarily mean all is well.
Mark, are you saying that people who commit mass murder are mentally stable? I would say the very fact that a person is willing to randomly maim and murder other human beings, as many as possible, indicates that the person is very troubled spiritually, mentally, and emotionally, correct?
I thought we were talking about RANDOM mass murders...the ones in the headlines recently. The ones that the President was referring to. I didn't think we were talking about mass murderers who are robbing people (like Bonnie and Clyde), or protecting their political turf (like Herod).
But even in the case of Herod (or murderous bank robbers), I would make the case that there is CLEARLY something that is wrong mentally. Would you say that Hitler, Stalin, etc. were of sound mind?
Ken, I think you might be speaking sarcastically. But I agree with you that it would be prudent to expand our definitions of mental illness, in order to include people who randomly murder and injure other human beings. As the author of this article stated, we don't know all the factors involved, so it is wise to keep an open mind. One thing I think is blatantly obvious is that anyone who would commit such heinous crimes is suffering from extreme spiritual, mental, and social problems. Not all people who are mentally ill are mass murderers. But all mass murderers are mentally (and spiritually) ill.
Ken, thanks for the clarification. And more importantly, thanks for engaging in this discussion in a meaningful way. I think it's important for us CRC members to be able to disagree with each other and talk about it. I sincerely appreciate the folks at The Network creating a place for that to happen!
Also, thank you Mark for sharing this article. I think we all have more areas of agreement than disagreement, and it's important to remember that. While I have no issue with the President identifying metal illness as a key factor, I understand your perspective and I respect it.
In the end, I think we can all agree that all of us have various strengths and limitations. And those of us with strength in one area need to be mindful of those with limitations, treat them with dignity, and facilitate each others abilities wherever we can. Our greatest limitation is shared by all of humanity: our sinful nature. To deal with that we can only rely on the strength of Jesus Christ our Savior. The good news of His Gospel is the greatest thing we can share with anyone, regardless of "ability."
Especially in the Church, procedural rules are only as good as their ability to guide us to be faithful to Scripture.
And even worse than "following" man-made technicalities to undermine Scripture, is turning around and ignoring those same procedural rules when circumstances flip and they threaten to stand in the way of "progress."
May we remain faithful to Scripture first and always. Then we can endeavor to apply subordinate procedural rules fairly and appropriately (and not to the exclusive advantage or disadvantage of one side).
Eric, your point about this already happening is sad but true.
Perhaps it's time for us to use ARTICLE 30 of our Church Order?
Article 30 allows for any CRC classis, church council, or even individual member "to appeal to the assembly next in order if they believe...that a decision conflicts with the Word of God or Church Order." You, I, our church councils, or our classis are allowed to petition the Council of Sherman Street CRC and ask them to clearly state that All One Body is in violation of the Word of God. If the Council of Sherman Street CRC refuses, we may invoke Article 30, and even require a Judicial Code proceeding.
As far as I know, this has not been done. Perhaps it is time for that.
The only way to end prejudice and racism is for all of us to view each other in the way God views us: as individuals. May we look past the relative brown-ness of each others' skin, and see the individual being created by God.
Another way to approach the issue is to ask the question: What effect are CRC employees having in their political lobbying?
I can reference a specific example, a "personal story", if you will (I'm told that personal stories are powerful). It is not related to climate change, but the illustration holds.
You may recall that early in his presidency, Donald Trump instituted a travel ban from about half a dozen countries that were identified as terrorism hot spots. Employees of the CRC at the Office of Social Justice responded by calling on members of the CRC to call their "elected representatives" to say that "Christians do not support Donald Trump's immigration ban."
I waited a couple days, then I called Congressman Bill Huizinga's office in DC (he is my Congressman). Huizinga represents Michigan's 2nd Congressional District, which probably encompasses more members of the CRC than any other district in the entire United States. I spoke to one of Bill's staffers, and told her that employees of the Christian Reformed Church had urged me to call Bill. But instead of opposing the travel ban, I told Bill's staffer that I support it. Furthermore, I stated my belief that (contrary to OSJ's action alert) the travel ban was completely and totally compatible with Biblical principles. Finally, I asked Bill's staffer how many other CRC members had called, but had voiced opposition to the ban. Or maybe had not identified as a CRC member, but opposed the ban on moral or religious grounds.
Zero. Bill's staffer said they had not received a single call like that since the "action alert" was sent out.
So again..if the lobbying is not actually getting people to act, what is it accomplishing?
Other than, dividing members of the CRC...and providing jobs. But I'm open to other feedback; does anyone think the lobbying is having a great effect on public policy?
Eric, the Green New Deal is the perfectly logical public policy conclusion of anyone who believes that global warming is being caused almost exclusively by burning fossil fuels, and that the warming is going to have immediate and devastating effects on life as we know it.
As much as I vehemently disagree with the policies it proposes, I give the Green New Deal's backers credit for having the intellectual honesty to propose drastic changes. Finally, a proposal that matches the alarm!
And, I think it is a very fair (and logical) question to ask: Should the CRC back this plan?
If we, as a denomination, truly believe the 97% consensus on global warming (the 1st step would be believing there is a 97% consensus), the CRC should back this plan. And denominational offices, agencies, and employees should take drastic steps to reduce their CO2 emissions, immediately,
Posted in: We Must Not Go Back to Normal
Aha! Now we are getting somewhere. So there is no actual banking policy that looks at a person's skin tone and requires them to pay more for a loan. Instead, the OUTCOME of a particular activity (in this case, loans) appears unequal, thus the belief of White Privilege is that there must be some inherent racism in the system which causes the unequal outcome. Is that a fair summary?
Posted in: The Network Turns 10! Two Giveaways
Yum. Timbits!
Posted in: A Foolish and Dangerous Assertion
Jeremy Oosterhouse makes a very good point. A lack of an official, clinical diagnosis does not necessarily mean all is well.
Mark, are you saying that people who commit mass murder are mentally stable? I would say the very fact that a person is willing to randomly maim and murder other human beings, as many as possible, indicates that the person is very troubled spiritually, mentally, and emotionally, correct?
Posted in: A Foolish and Dangerous Assertion
I thought we were talking about RANDOM mass murders...the ones in the headlines recently. The ones that the President was referring to. I didn't think we were talking about mass murderers who are robbing people (like Bonnie and Clyde), or protecting their political turf (like Herod).
But even in the case of Herod (or murderous bank robbers), I would make the case that there is CLEARLY something that is wrong mentally. Would you say that Hitler, Stalin, etc. were of sound mind?
Posted in: A Foolish and Dangerous Assertion
Ken, I think you might be speaking sarcastically. But I agree with you that it would be prudent to expand our definitions of mental illness, in order to include people who randomly murder and injure other human beings. As the author of this article stated, we don't know all the factors involved, so it is wise to keep an open mind. One thing I think is blatantly obvious is that anyone who would commit such heinous crimes is suffering from extreme spiritual, mental, and social problems. Not all people who are mentally ill are mass murderers. But all mass murderers are mentally (and spiritually) ill.
Posted in: A Foolish and Dangerous Assertion
Ken, thanks for the clarification. And more importantly, thanks for engaging in this discussion in a meaningful way. I think it's important for us CRC members to be able to disagree with each other and talk about it. I sincerely appreciate the folks at The Network creating a place for that to happen!
Also, thank you Mark for sharing this article. I think we all have more areas of agreement than disagreement, and it's important to remember that. While I have no issue with the President identifying metal illness as a key factor, I understand your perspective and I respect it.
In the end, I think we can all agree that all of us have various strengths and limitations. And those of us with strength in one area need to be mindful of those with limitations, treat them with dignity, and facilitate each others abilities wherever we can. Our greatest limitation is shared by all of humanity: our sinful nature. To deal with that we can only rely on the strength of Jesus Christ our Savior. The good news of His Gospel is the greatest thing we can share with anyone, regardless of "ability."
Posted in: The Sin of Process?
Especially in the Church, procedural rules are only as good as their ability to guide us to be faithful to Scripture.
And even worse than "following" man-made technicalities to undermine Scripture, is turning around and ignoring those same procedural rules when circumstances flip and they threaten to stand in the way of "progress."
May we remain faithful to Scripture first and always. Then we can endeavor to apply subordinate procedural rules fairly and appropriately (and not to the exclusive advantage or disadvantage of one side).
Posted in: Life, Life, and More Life
Thank you, Sarah Joy, for speaking the truth with power, boldness, and clarity. May God continue to hold you up and guide your path!
Posted in: The CRC and LGBTQ - Part 2
Eric, your point about this already happening is sad but true.
Perhaps it's time for us to use ARTICLE 30 of our Church Order?
Article 30 allows for any CRC classis, church council, or even individual member "to appeal to the assembly next in order if they believe...that a decision conflicts with the Word of God or Church Order." You, I, our church councils, or our classis are allowed to petition the Council of Sherman Street CRC and ask them to clearly state that All One Body is in violation of the Word of God. If the Council of Sherman Street CRC refuses, we may invoke Article 30, and even require a Judicial Code proceeding.
As far as I know, this has not been done. Perhaps it is time for that.
Posted in: Fragile Beauty and Racism
The only way to end prejudice and racism is for all of us to view each other in the way God views us: as individuals. May we look past the relative brown-ness of each others' skin, and see the individual being created by God.
Posted in: Should the CRCNA Lobby in Favor of Federal Carbon Tax Legislation?
Another way to approach the issue is to ask the question: What effect are CRC employees having in their political lobbying?
I can reference a specific example, a "personal story", if you will (I'm told that personal stories are powerful). It is not related to climate change, but the illustration holds.
You may recall that early in his presidency, Donald Trump instituted a travel ban from about half a dozen countries that were identified as terrorism hot spots. Employees of the CRC at the Office of Social Justice responded by calling on members of the CRC to call their "elected representatives" to say that "Christians do not support Donald Trump's immigration ban."
I waited a couple days, then I called Congressman Bill Huizinga's office in DC (he is my Congressman). Huizinga represents Michigan's 2nd Congressional District, which probably encompasses more members of the CRC than any other district in the entire United States. I spoke to one of Bill's staffers, and told her that employees of the Christian Reformed Church had urged me to call Bill. But instead of opposing the travel ban, I told Bill's staffer that I support it. Furthermore, I stated my belief that (contrary to OSJ's action alert) the travel ban was completely and totally compatible with Biblical principles. Finally, I asked Bill's staffer how many other CRC members had called, but had voiced opposition to the ban. Or maybe had not identified as a CRC member, but opposed the ban on moral or religious grounds.
Zero. Bill's staffer said they had not received a single call like that since the "action alert" was sent out.
So again..if the lobbying is not actually getting people to act, what is it accomplishing?
Other than, dividing members of the CRC...and providing jobs. But I'm open to other feedback; does anyone think the lobbying is having a great effect on public policy?
Posted in: Should the CRCNA Lobby in Favor of Federal Carbon Tax Legislation?
Eric, the Green New Deal is the perfectly logical public policy conclusion of anyone who believes that global warming is being caused almost exclusively by burning fossil fuels, and that the warming is going to have immediate and devastating effects on life as we know it.
As much as I vehemently disagree with the policies it proposes, I give the Green New Deal's backers credit for having the intellectual honesty to propose drastic changes. Finally, a proposal that matches the alarm!
And, I think it is a very fair (and logical) question to ask: Should the CRC back this plan?
If we, as a denomination, truly believe the 97% consensus on global warming (the 1st step would be believing there is a 97% consensus), the CRC should back this plan. And denominational offices, agencies, and employees should take drastic steps to reduce their CO2 emissions, immediately,