Thank you for this illustration Mr. Winiarski. It is helpful in understanding how the church is full of those with different perspectives, and how one might respond in love.
I am wondering if this problem might be better solved by moving past fear. When I think about all of the lessons that our culture is throwing at children, it is very frightening. But keeping kids away from all outside cultural influences isn’t possible. So instead of being afraid of what they are reading and watching, equip them to understand the information they are absorbing.
Messages from secular sources surround us every day. They can seep into our brains without us even knowing that they are there. All of us if we aren’t careful, can mindlessly assimilate bad messages and bad behaviors that lead us down paths we may not even know we are walking. That is why discernment matters. Proverbs 4 warns us about what we fill our minds with. It tells us to guard our hearts and watch what flows from our mouths and which way our eyes look and our feet walk. We could take this to the extreme and say that all secular sources are bad and we shouldn’t read any of them, but that is quite drastic. After all, while there are definitely bad messages that we get from those sources, they can teach us things about the world and about how we treat each other. Secular culture gives us a window into how the world acts, and can even teach us spiritual lessons. Even the apostle Paul, as he was teaching in the city of Athens, used an idol that he had seen in the city as a way to point his listeners to God (Acts 17:22-23). Paul used the culture of the city of Athens to teach about God. We can do the same thing with the culture of our day. It can point us and others to God and it can teach our children lessons about God if we aren’t afraid to ask our children some questions about what they are reading. This may sound like a difficult task, but understanding how to engage with others can help us as we talk to our children about secular information.
Today, youth are bombarded with views of human sexuality that are not God-honoring. How about engaging with youth to help them use real discernment when faced with secular messages? When faced with facts that may not honor God or are evil, it is important to talk that out; explore how the author’s view differs from scripture. Pulling lessons out of secular content can be difficult, but this is where some of the real conversation can happen. Talk about what we will take away from the source and bring with us into our everyday lives. Maybe it will make you pause and consider some aspect of how you are living, either in a positive way or a negative one. Real discernment means talking about ideas like identity, purpose, and belonging; this could be a perfect time to bring scripture back into the conversation and talk about identity, purpose, or belonging from God’s perspective.
Again, let’s move past fear. One can still draw boundaries around what children can take in, but how much better to equip them with some of the skills they will need to be able to engage culture on their own when they are old enough to make their own choices. I encourage you to work with your children and youth and talk to them about what they are seeing. Teach them to discern what they put into their minds, eyes, and ears and what lessons they are living out in their everyday lives. (Thanks to Rev. Dr. Bret Lamsma for many of these thoughts.)
You impress me as a thoughtful man who knows Scripture.
Let me invited you to view things from a victim’s viewpoint. Through a victim, I have learned that we all need to be sensitive, first, to where the victim or potential victim is at in his/her relationship with God. Many question "where was God?" "Why did He allow this to be done to me?". (S)he may not be able accept that God loves her/him. Surrounded by people singing praises to God, (s)he might think "if God is so loving and amazing, why do I feel so bad?" Victims may have many questions including "why does God not 'work' for me?" "Where is this peace that Christians talk about?"
These questions can be compounded by the fact that the abuser uses God's Name and Word against her/him, and twists Who He was. Scripture is used to justify the abuse. Victims can take a long time to recognize God's love and the real truth of Scripture.
I invite you to think about how the very resources you are afraid of can be a literal life-line for those being abuse or in danger of being abuse.
Mr. VanDyken: I have been following this conversation with interest, and offer my comments in humility and sincerity.
I am not sure that Mr. Winiarski is “introducing some novel concepts here.” You, yourself, ask that The Network “remove all references to and promotion of Break the Cycle, Youth.gov, and Love is Respect from this article.” Is this not banning?
I am confused about your statements that "what we have here is a church agency and employees (with the denominational imprimatur) recommending a resource for teen relationships that builds its understanding of relationships on principles of wickedness" and "church promotion of worldly concepts." I cannot find any such recommendation or promotion anywhere in this article; what I find is a link to "some recent statistics from two organizations in the US that are working to put an end to teen violence." Likewise, "a comprehensive list of what dating abuse looks like, as compiled by Breakthecycle.org" is offered. The link to Loveisrespect.org is provided as a place for information on "knowing what signs to look for ... an agency that offers a great deal of resources to further this conversation. ... They also offer practical steps on how to get out of abusive situations." We should be careful not to mislead by interpreting words of others inaccurately.
Sometimes "walking in another’s shoes" can be enlightening. As one who has searched near and far for resources on abuse, sources should as these, filtered through a Biblical lens, are vitally important. Often, unless you are impacted by abuse, you cannot understand the urgent need to find ways to escape or help loved ones who suffer. Abuse is often done in the very name of God; abusers use Scripture to validate his/her abuse. Closing the door on valuable resources can be life-threatening.
I am confused by your comment referring to Mr. Winiarski’s past history: I am not sure of how this fits into this conversation. Questioning the judgment of others without verification is neither helpful nor reflecting of Christ’s love. It can be very disingenuous and harmful to others.
I am glad to see that you are "very supportive of the free and open exchange of ideas and arguments." Such openness can be the beginning of honest and truthful exchanges that offer others the opportunity of expression without fear of judgment. I am thankful that this platform presents such a wonderful opportunity. What I do know for certain is that we can rest in the fact that God sovereignly works everything for the good of His people, including restoring us through the righteousness of His Son. Our righteousness began in Christ and is completed in Christ. Follow Him and pursue it daily.
Eric: This website claims to be created from a Reformed perspective. Please be aware that I have not explored all the links on the website.
FamilyFire: From the About webpage - "FamilyFire is a Christian ministry committed to sharing the good news of God's design for relationships, marriage, and parenting. Together, we explore spiritual, emotional, and physical intimacy and how the Spirit empowers us to live out our faith in relationships." Categories on this site include Dating, Marriage, Sexuality, and others. This 2015 CRCNA article tells more about this ministry produced by Grand Rapids based Pastor Deb Koster in collaboration with her husband, Pastor Steven.
Grand Rapids-based Safe Haven Ministries "help employers, faith communities, schools, and other agencies create a culture of abuse prevention through trainings and resources." Among their offerings is a Teen Dating Violence Prevention Program promoting healthy relationships. You can find out about this program by clicking this link.
Ms. Boelens-Groen: Your poem pierced my heart. I could feel your agony in your words, and understand your plea to churches for help and to make a difference. Churches must provide a safe place where abuse victims and concerned others can break their silence. Thank you for sharing your story. May God bless you.
Mr. Hemstreet: Thank you for your comments on this topic. I found Professor Murray's article extremely insightful and informative. It gave me a greater knowledge of a topic I have been very curious about.
I am perplexed, though, regarding your statement "those that are guilty of sin should be publicly shamed." You mention that doing so would serve as a "warning to others." In reality, "research underscores the more significant role that certainty plays in deterrence than severity — it is the certainty of being caught that deters a person from committing crime, not the fear of being punished or the severity of the punishment" ("Five Things About Deterrence." National Institute of Justice, 6 June 2016, nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx). But of more importance is the fact that publicly shaming a sinner may cause harm to a victim if one is involved. Even if the victim would remain unnamed, members of a church could easily "connect the dots" to discover who the victim is. A better warning to others might be the knowledge that the church takes abuse seriously and that the "Christians in positions of power there examine themselves as they make decisions and judgments going forwards" (Murray).
Also, not steeped in church doctrine, I am curious about the doctrine you refer to that states that repentance "if and when it is given, it will easily overcome the barrier of public shame." What particular doctrine is that?
It is my prayer that we be the kind of church God is calling us to be; a church that learns lessons, grows through healing … and demonstrates the love of Christ.
Thank you for letting us know about Rachel Denhollander's upcoming event at Calvin College.
While only indirectly related to the Murray article, I would also like to pass on another resource regarding abuse and the response to it. Michigan Radio has produced an outstanding podcast titled Believed. "Believed is a story of survivors finding their power in a cultural moment when people are coming to understand how important that is. It’s an inside look at how a team of women — a detective, a prosecutor, and an army of survivors — won justice in one of the largest serial sexual abuse cases in U.S. history. It’s also an unnerving exploration of how even well-meaning adults can fail to believe" (Michigan Radio). You can access it at believed.michiganradio.org. Ms. Denhollander is featured as are other courageous women. I highly recommend listening to all the episodes beginning with number one.
Eric also provides a link to a Network article, Justice, Grace, and Worth: Rachael Denhollander's Victim Impact Statement, I believe it is worth the read. This article contains a link to Ms. Denhollander's complete witness impact statement. Her passion for justice and her demonstration of her faith radiates hope and God's grace. Here is the link to a video of Ms. Denhollander's victim impact statement: https://youtu.be/7CjVOLToRJk.
Rev. Gelwicks: MJill H's abuse was not "perceived", it was "suffered." Attempting to minimize abuse is hurtful to the victim especially when done by a pastor who should know better how to minister to those who are hurting. The abuse was real, not perceived. I think you might benefit from reading some books on abuse. I will list some very good ones at the end of this post. I highly recommend the book titled "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft, a counselor who specializes in working with abusive men. You would find insights into why men abuse, and also how to respond to victims. In fact, I will purchase it for you, and mail it to you; it is that good. Let me know if you want it, and somehow I will get it to you. I have recommended it to elders, pastors, and others who deal victims and abusers; the feedback has been tremendous. Although I have not yet read it, there is a book titled "Domestic Violence: What Every Pastor Needs to Know" by Al Miles that is addressed specifically to pastors.
I consider myself a life-long learner, and as I just today learned from MJill H, ministering to abuse victims and abusers is different. I am so thankful to her for providing me with some helpful ways and comments for ministering to abuse victims.
What does puzzle me is that even though this fact has been repeated throughout this blog post, you have yet to address the fact that this minister "had a previous incident wherein he had blackmailed a woman with money to keep quiet about sexually inappropriate behavior with her.”While there is no indication of any other assaults by this minister, we do not know if there were any others. This brave survivor also mentions in her post that "I was contacted several weeks later and informed that the committee recommended a two year suspension of his ministerial credentials." So yes, initially, a committee found him guilty of something including blackmail that warranted a two-year suspension of his credentials.
Maybe a better question and line of discussion is why this minister still had his ministerial credentials after previous sexually-deviant behavior and blackmail (!) that resulted in mandatory counseling. It would help me to understand your perspective if you would address that past behavior, mandatory counseling, and the pattern of abuse.
Respectfully, Jane Elzinga
Great books to read:
A Cry for Justice: How the Evil of Domestic Abuse Hides in your Church - Authors Jeff Crippen & Anna Wood
Black and White Bible, Black and Blue Wife: My Story of Finding Hope after Domestic Abuse - Author Ruth Tucker
The Cry of Tamar - Author Pamela Cooper-White
Domestic Violence: What Every Pastor Needs to Know. - Author Al Miles
Family and Friend's Guide to Domestic Violence - Author Elaine Weiss
Helping Her Get Free: A Guide for Families and Friends of Abused Women - Author Susan Brewster
Is It My Fault: Hope and Healing for Those Suffering. - Authors Justin S. Holcomb and Lindsey A. Holcomb
Man Enough - Author Frank Pittman, MD
Violence Among Us: Ministry to Families in Crisis. - Authors Brenda Branson & Paula J. Silvia
Posted in: Meet Julia Rathbun, Your Safe Church Consultant
Julia: May God guide you, and bless you on this new journey. <><
Posted in: February Is Teen Dating Violence Awareness and Prevention Month (TDVAM)
Thank you for this illustration Mr. Winiarski. It is helpful in understanding how the church is full of those with different perspectives, and how one might respond in love.
Posted in: February Is Teen Dating Violence Awareness and Prevention Month (TDVAM)
I am wondering if this problem might be better solved by moving past fear. When I think about all of the lessons that our culture is throwing at children, it is very frightening. But keeping kids away from all outside cultural influences isn’t possible. So instead of being afraid of what they are reading and watching, equip them to understand the information they are absorbing.
Messages from secular sources surround us every day. They can seep into our brains without us even knowing that they are there. All of us if we aren’t careful, can mindlessly assimilate bad messages and bad behaviors that lead us down paths we may not even know we are walking. That is why discernment matters. Proverbs 4 warns us about what we fill our minds with. It tells us to guard our hearts and watch what flows from our mouths and which way our eyes look and our feet walk. We could take this to the extreme and say that all secular sources are bad and we shouldn’t read any of them, but that is quite drastic. After all, while there are definitely bad messages that we get from those sources, they can teach us things about the world and about how we treat each other. Secular culture gives us a window into how the world acts, and can even teach us spiritual lessons. Even the apostle Paul, as he was teaching in the city of Athens, used an idol that he had seen in the city as a way to point his listeners to God (Acts 17:22-23). Paul used the culture of the city of Athens to teach about God. We can do the same thing with the culture of our day. It can point us and others to God and it can teach our children lessons about God if we aren’t afraid to ask our children some questions about what they are reading. This may sound like a difficult task, but understanding how to engage with others can help us as we talk to our children about secular information.
Today, youth are bombarded with views of human sexuality that are not God-honoring. How about engaging with youth to help them use real discernment when faced with secular messages? When faced with facts that may not honor God or are evil, it is important to talk that out; explore how the author’s view differs from scripture. Pulling lessons out of secular content can be difficult, but this is where some of the real conversation can happen. Talk about what we will take away from the source and bring with us into our everyday lives. Maybe it will make you pause and consider some aspect of how you are living, either in a positive way or a negative one. Real discernment means talking about ideas like identity, purpose, and belonging; this could be a perfect time to bring scripture back into the conversation and talk about identity, purpose, or belonging from God’s perspective.
Again, let’s move past fear. One can still draw boundaries around what children can take in, but how much better to equip them with some of the skills they will need to be able to engage culture on their own when they are old enough to make their own choices. I encourage you to work with your children and youth and talk to them about what they are seeing. Teach them to discern what they put into their minds, eyes, and ears and what lessons they are living out in their everyday lives. (Thanks to Rev. Dr. Bret Lamsma for many of these thoughts.)
Posted in: February Is Teen Dating Violence Awareness and Prevention Month (TDVAM)
Mr. VanDyken:
You impress me as a thoughtful man who knows Scripture.
Let me invited you to view things from a victim’s viewpoint. Through a victim, I have learned that we all need to be sensitive, first, to where the victim or potential victim is at in his/her relationship with God. Many question "where was God?" "Why did He allow this to be done to me?". (S)he may not be able accept that God loves her/him. Surrounded by people singing praises to God, (s)he might think "if God is so loving and amazing, why do I feel so bad?" Victims may have many questions including "why does God not 'work' for me?" "Where is this peace that Christians talk about?"
These questions can be compounded by the fact that the abuser uses God's Name and Word against her/him, and twists Who He was. Scripture is used to justify the abuse. Victims can take a long time to recognize God's love and the real truth of Scripture.
I invite you to think about how the very resources you are afraid of can be a literal life-line for those being abuse or in danger of being abuse.
Posted in: February Is Teen Dating Violence Awareness and Prevention Month (TDVAM)
Mr. VanDyken: I have been following this conversation with interest, and offer my comments in humility and sincerity.
I am not sure that Mr. Winiarski is “introducing some novel concepts here.” You, yourself, ask that The Network “remove all references to and promotion of Break the Cycle, Youth.gov, and Love is Respect from this article.” Is this not banning?
I am confused about your statements that "what we have here is a church agency and employees (with the denominational imprimatur) recommending a resource for teen relationships that builds its understanding of relationships on principles of wickedness" and "church promotion of worldly concepts." I cannot find any such recommendation or promotion anywhere in this article; what I find is a link to "some recent statistics from two organizations in the US that are working to put an end to teen violence." Likewise, "a comprehensive list of what dating abuse looks like, as compiled by Breakthecycle.org" is offered. The link to Loveisrespect.org is provided as a place for information on "knowing what signs to look for ... an agency that offers a great deal of resources to further this conversation. ... They also offer practical steps on how to get out of abusive situations." We should be careful not to mislead by interpreting words of others inaccurately.
Sometimes "walking in another’s shoes" can be enlightening. As one who has searched near and far for resources on abuse, sources should as these, filtered through a Biblical lens, are vitally important. Often, unless you are impacted by abuse, you cannot understand the urgent need to find ways to escape or help loved ones who suffer. Abuse is often done in the very name of God; abusers use Scripture to validate his/her abuse. Closing the door on valuable resources can be life-threatening.
I am confused by your comment referring to Mr. Winiarski’s past history: I am not sure of how this fits into this conversation. Questioning the judgment of others without verification is neither helpful nor reflecting of Christ’s love. It can be very disingenuous and harmful to others.
I am glad to see that you are "very supportive of the free and open exchange of ideas and arguments." Such openness can be the beginning of honest and truthful exchanges that offer others the opportunity of expression without fear of judgment. I am thankful that this platform presents such a wonderful opportunity. What I do know for certain is that we can rest in the fact that God sovereignly works everything for the good of His people, including restoring us through the righteousness of His Son. Our righteousness began in Christ and is completed in Christ. Follow Him and pursue it daily.
jae
Posted in: February Is Teen Dating Violence Awareness and Prevention Month (TDVAM)
Eric: This website claims to be created from a Reformed perspective. Please be aware that I have not explored all the links on the website.
FamilyFire: From the About webpage - "FamilyFire is a Christian ministry committed to sharing the good news of God's design for relationships, marriage, and parenting. Together, we explore spiritual, emotional, and physical intimacy and how the Spirit empowers us to live out our faith in relationships." Categories on this site include Dating, Marriage, Sexuality, and others. This 2015 CRCNA article tells more about this ministry produced by Grand Rapids based Pastor Deb Koster in collaboration with her husband, Pastor Steven.
Posted in: February Is Teen Dating Violence Awareness and Prevention Month (TDVAM)
One more resource:
Grand Rapids-based Safe Haven Ministries "help employers, faith communities, schools, and other agencies create a culture of abuse prevention through trainings and resources." Among their offerings is a Teen Dating Violence Prevention Program promoting healthy relationships. You can find out about this program by clicking this link.
Shalom <><
Posted in: S.O.S. Silence Hides Violence, Violence Destroys Lives
Ms. Boelens-Groen: Your poem pierced my heart. I could feel your agony in your words, and understand your plea to churches for help and to make a difference. Churches must provide a safe place where abuse victims and concerned others can break their silence. Thank you for sharing your story. May God bless you.
Posted in: Why Do Churches Cover Up Sin?
Mr. Hemstreet: Thank you for your comments on this topic. I found Professor Murray's article extremely insightful and informative. It gave me a greater knowledge of a topic I have been very curious about.
I am perplexed, though, regarding your statement "those that are guilty of sin should be publicly shamed." You mention that doing so would serve as a "warning to others." In reality, "research underscores the more significant role that certainty plays in deterrence than severity — it is the certainty of being caught that deters a person from committing crime, not the fear of being punished or the severity of the punishment" ("Five Things About Deterrence." National Institute of Justice, 6 June 2016, nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx). But of more importance is the fact that publicly shaming a sinner may cause harm to a victim if one is involved. Even if the victim would remain unnamed, members of a church could easily "connect the dots" to discover who the victim is. A better warning to others might be the knowledge that the church takes abuse seriously and that the "Christians in positions of power there examine themselves as they make decisions and judgments going forwards" (Murray).
Also, not steeped in church doctrine, I am curious about the doctrine you refer to that states that repentance "if and when it is given, it will easily overcome the barrier of public shame." What particular doctrine is that?
It is my prayer that we be the kind of church God is calling us to be; a church that learns lessons, grows through healing … and demonstrates the love of Christ.
Posted in: Why Do Churches Cover Up Sin?
Thank you for letting us know about Rachel Denhollander's upcoming event at Calvin College.
While only indirectly related to the Murray article, I would also like to pass on another resource regarding abuse and the response to it. Michigan Radio has produced an outstanding podcast titled Believed. "Believed is a story of survivors finding their power in a cultural moment when people are coming to understand how important that is. It’s an inside look at how a team of women — a detective, a prosecutor, and an army of survivors — won justice in one of the largest serial sexual abuse cases in U.S. history. It’s also an unnerving exploration of how even well-meaning adults can fail to believe" (Michigan Radio). You can access it at believed.michiganradio.org. Ms. Denhollander is featured as are other courageous women. I highly recommend listening to all the episodes beginning with number one.
Eric also provides a link to a Network article, Justice, Grace, and Worth: Rachael Denhollander's Victim Impact Statement, I believe it is worth the read. This article contains a link to Ms. Denhollander's complete witness impact statement. Her passion for justice and her demonstration of her faith radiates hope and God's grace. Here is the link to a video of Ms. Denhollander's victim impact statement: https://youtu.be/7CjVOLToRJk.
Shalom
Posted in: S.O.S. Sexual Assault at a Retreat by Clergy
MJill H: Thank you for letting know what was helpful to you. Your words will guide me as I work with our church's Safe Church Team.
Shalom.
Posted in: S.O.S. Sexual Assault at a Retreat by Clergy
Rev. Gelwicks: MJill H's abuse was not "perceived", it was "suffered." Attempting to minimize abuse is hurtful to the victim especially when done by a pastor who should know better how to minister to those who are hurting. The abuse was real, not perceived. I think you might benefit from reading some books on abuse. I will list some very good ones at the end of this post. I highly recommend the book titled "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft, a counselor who specializes in working with abusive men. You would find insights into why men abuse, and also how to respond to victims. In fact, I will purchase it for you, and mail it to you; it is that good. Let me know if you want it, and somehow I will get it to you. I have recommended it to elders, pastors, and others who deal victims and abusers; the feedback has been tremendous. Although I have not yet read it, there is a book titled "Domestic Violence: What Every Pastor Needs to Know" by Al Miles that is addressed specifically to pastors.
I consider myself a life-long learner, and as I just today learned from MJill H, ministering to abuse victims and abusers is different. I am so thankful to her for providing me with some helpful ways and comments for ministering to abuse victims.
What does puzzle me is that even though this fact has been repeated throughout this blog post, you have yet to address the fact that this minister "had a previous incident wherein he had blackmailed a woman with money to keep quiet about sexually inappropriate behavior with her.” While there is no indication of any other assaults by this minister, we do not know if there were any others. This brave survivor also mentions in her post that "I was contacted several weeks later and informed that the committee recommended a two year suspension of his ministerial credentials." So yes, initially, a committee found him guilty of something including blackmail that warranted a two-year suspension of his credentials.
Maybe a better question and line of discussion is why this minister still had his ministerial credentials after previous sexually-deviant behavior and blackmail (!) that resulted in mandatory counseling. It would help me to understand your perspective if you would address that past behavior, mandatory counseling, and the pattern of abuse.
Respectfully, Jane Elzinga
Great books to read: