The Belhar will not change churches moving to different places, unless the churches have a mission to reach others. If they do have a mission to reach others, the Belhar will not be necessary. I think if preachers lack the courage to preach scripture, or to live from scripture, and if people consider their wealth and comfort more important that their neighbors, then they are not listening to scripture. If they do not listen to scripture, why in the world would they ever listen to the Belhar? That logic escapes me.
I'm very surprised that you feel that you cannot preach on the Belhar merely because it is not in the back of the hymnal. It is not really the belhar that should be preached on anyway, but certainly if the themes are valid and the principles are scriptural what would be stopping you from preaching on those themes or applying scripture in a practical way?
Other confessions were born out of life and death issues, usually in great turmoil, persecution, and earth-shaking times. The Belhar comes at a time when most of the principles it espouses are already supported by laws of our countries. The adoption of the Belhar is more of a whitewash over our own actions and attitudes. It is a way of looking good, rather than being good. And because it follows society, rather than leading it, our motives are suspect. And because it follows society, it will have a tendency to follow society down the broad path to destruction, rather than following Christ down the narrow path to God's will.
Coming from a background where my siblings and children are members of churches from eight different denominations, ranging from protestant reformed to baptist and pentecostal (but no anglicans nor rom cath), I have often asked myself what is God's purpose with regard to so many denominations or churches who all want to serve and worship the same Lord and Saviour. I'm not sure I have a very good answer, except maybe this, that personalities and personal quirks sometimes cause problems in one church situation, and another church situation can allow a method of worship and service that is more tempered to an individual at that time. Various disputable theologies and practices also play a role; we see changes sometimes in one denomination, but they happen too quickly or too slowly for some, or no change is desired. Sometimes history of experiences, or separation of family relationships, combined with a different worship environment, make old scriptural passages and applications take on a new life and vigour.
Underlying all of this, however, is the common purpose and unity that can exist between Christians in different churches and denominations. While differences are real, so is the unity also real. Sometimes there is greater unity between christians in different denominations or churches, than there is within one particular church. This might be because the focus changes to what unites, rather than to what separates, especially when churches want to work together.
This realization has also ocurred to me, that some churches have great theology, but members don't practice it, while other churches have sloppy or incomplete theology on paper, but members practice a great theology in daily life.
The different churches also allow some people to discover the essentials of the walk of faith, since they must separate their walk of faith from mere tradition, into a conscious discovery of God's will for their/our lives on a day to day basis with people who do not take their particular traditions for granted. This will bring them back to scripture and God's will on a deeper basis than they have ever perhaps done before.
It seems to me that saying that we should respect the Quran the way Moslems respect it, reveals an ignorance of how moslems really regard the quran. We can understand how they respect it, but the only way to respect it the way they do is to accept Mohammed as the true prophet of Allah, and to follow all the precepts and commands in the quran. Which we cannot do.
Bert, I agree with you that the quran will not help us to understand the bible better. But what I think was meant by the phrase (could have been said better), is that christians can use their knowledge of the quran to lead moslems to the bible. There are some similar sayings and there are some references to Jesus, which provide a kind of natural link to talking about the truths found in the bible. I agree with you that "Bridge" is a poor term, because it suggests we need to cross the bridge of quran in order to understand or receive scripture, and that is not so.
Norman, there are probably two ways of making progress on a discussion for change, just like there are two ways of learning. One way is to examine all the theoretical angles and possibilities at length. This way is great for philosophers and abstract thinkers. The other way is just to start doing something. Trial and error. If it works, great, if not then try again. For example you mentioned that we seem to be getting less devotional generally in the denomination. If you don't get much uptake in abstract undefined discussion, then perhaps it would be more effective to simply propose some change in focus for devotions. For example, we used to make mealtimes the primary focus of family devotions, but now mealtimes seem both hurried and disjointed in many cases. Perhaps it makes more sense for some to have family devotions with their children in the evening just before the kids go to bed. To allocate at least twenty or thirty minutes to bible reading, story telling, explanations, questions and singing. So here is a concrete proposal which can be debated or discussed as to pros and cons.
Or, for others, they might get up thirty minutes earlier every morning so that they have time for morning devotions before or during breakfast.
Perhaps some added impetus could be added as well, both in regards to teaching children who are entrusted to us by God, and who we would like to see in heaven, not in the other place. Some added impetus would also include the fact that if we do not spend time in devotions, perhaps we are lying when we say we love the Lord? and likely God will take note of that lie? Devotions are not just a side issue but they are foundational. Living without devotions is like being married without kissing your wife or husband; it can be done, but you might wonder if this stale life contains any love.
Sam, your gardening analogy is interesting. I like my garden with potatoes as high as my pockets, and peas, beets, carrots doing their thing. Weeds are probably the biggest hindrance to growing a good garden, with fertility a big second, after moisture, of course. In your analogy, it would be interesting to imagine what the "weeds" are that we need to pull out, in order for the garden to thrive. And how do we pick these weeds without hurting the crop we want?
This is a good article. It is very important to use language that people understand. Last night I watched a movie called "Flywheel", produced by the same group as for "Courageous"and "Fireproof". In this movie the used car salesman heard a story from a customer who could no longer make payments on her car, and would have to give the car back, because of loss of work, medical bills, etc. The car salesman asked how much she still owed on the car, and she replied about $1200. He wrote her out a bill of sale and title to the car, and told her he believed her and that she no longer owed anything. Done. Car payments forgiven and eliminated. Maybe not a perfect example, but a modern example or analogy of God's grace. This example touched me because I could understand it, and maybe because of how it was presented.
Bev, in response to your hint for more official recognition of prayer and prophecy. It has been said that influence often has more impact than "authority". Of course, authority is required... someone must make some decisions. But influence can change the direction of those decisions. Thus often wives without direct authority still influence decisions of their husbands in very dramatic and significant ways. Consider Obama saying that he was influenced to flipflop on homo marriage due to influence of his wife and daughters. This is the practical side of whether it is important or not to sit at a particular table. If decision makers decide that the holy spirit is very important in prophecies, and that prophetic utterances ought to receive more attention, that might be interesting, but it won't gather much steam unless people trust them or accept them or feel that it is important. Another example is synod assessing ministry shares. They do that, but the churches donate about 70 some percent of those shares (I believe). Influence on the relative significance of synod's authority has more imact than the actual authority of synod itself.
Why do I say this? It is because if you really want to have an impact about the importance of prayer, and really want to highlight the possibility and significance of prohetic utterances and spiritual vision, then you have an unprecedented opportunity to do so on various electronic forums. This probably reaches more people than a table at synod, and in a more effective manner. People who respond and listen are more likely to change than those councils and administrators who toss correspondence into the garbage because there is already too much to deal with. Changing practices and understanding from the ground up is likely to be more effective than trying to change it from the top down. Invariably by the time it is changed from the top down (although we shouldn't call synod the top), it has already been majorly changed at the working level. In my opinion.
A prayer conference in Los Angelos or Sacramento does not require the approval of synod, for example. Nor will it necessarily be more effective if it does get that endorsement. Keep in mind also, that particular methods of ministry, or of prayer, may not be the guage of success. It may simply be the amount of time we spend as individuals, and the attitude of prayer that prevails in all our ordinary daily activities. It may be the cumulation of a whole number of different methods and priorities. Carry on, Bev. The need for prayer and the need for us to search for the leading of the spirit is very great. Very great! We need all the encouragement we can get.
Our local MP is my oldest son's age. He is in his third term. He attended the Peace River Bible Institute, which my daughter and two other sons also attended. That someone like him can get elected, gives hope. But politics is a murky game, and so prayer is needed. May God give all these politicians the will and desire and ability to do the right things.
This is great, Verlyn! Four different words used to describe various aspects of judging. Discerning (recognizing ), judging ourselves, being judged by God, and being condemned... Lots to think about. I will think about this some more, but I will make a comment about the first instance you mentioned, diakrinon, "discerning the body of Christ". In the context of this passage, I understand the action being discussed is "eating without waiting for anyone else". This may be due to divisions, pride, arrogance, selfishness, carelessness, etc., and so the Lord's supper is not really happening, because they are not remembering what Christ has done, and so do not discern or recognize the body of Christ, ( a dual conotation) which is the people of God ( next chapter, same passage, I Cor. 12). If we don't remember Christ's sacrifice of his body for all, including for the chief of sinners, then we won't recognize the believers as being the body of Christ. The emphasis in this passage seems to be on discerning the people (body) of Christ. This context is rounded out in verse 33, when it says that we should wait for each other (share, be considerate, value all parts of the body...) and then verse 34 has the word, "judgement", again. Interesting, "judgement" is used for a seemingly superficial action, eating at home if you are hungry and can't wait for others.
I wonder if part of the reason why people many only attend church twice a month on average (which is similar to findings of national gallup and diary surverys), is because we can seem to discuss this issue so cooly and intellectually. Without passion, without purpose, without a sense of urgency or committment, there is no real reason for people to be concerned about whether they attend church every week or not. The lack of passion that allowed people to put social visiting, or football games or hockey games, or disney ahead of any extra effort it might take to gather together as God's people to honor God, rather than self, rather than human beings, rather than our own comfort or convenience, rather than work which could be done at another time, is the same cause for our present twice a month average as it was for our once a Sunday service (instead of twice a sunday, plus young people's in the evening).
I know people will come up with exceptions and all kinds of examples to the contrary, but the stats speak for themselves. In spite of fewer services, many people do less service and worship outside of worship services than they used to do in spite of twice a sunday worship. I'm presently reading thru Kings, and the repetition of a certain phrase sticks in my mind. A king would do what is pleasing to God, but he did not remove the high places where the people offered sacrifices and incense to other gods. Always the other false gods were in the background, causing a divergence of worship, replacing the single minded devotion to God that God himself required. In the end, Israel and Judah paid for their attempted worship of many gods, in a very serious and sad way. I wonder what we ourselves are really like.
Personally I just can't imagine how people could neglect worshipping God on sunday, in whatever location they are in, with whatever group of christians they can find. It would be like going to live with your secretary, or your boss, or your football friends every other week, instead of going home to your wife and kids. We are not removing the many "high places" of false worship in our lives.
Posted in: The Love of God in Belhar?
The Belhar will not change churches moving to different places, unless the churches have a mission to reach others. If they do have a mission to reach others, the Belhar will not be necessary. I think if preachers lack the courage to preach scripture, or to live from scripture, and if people consider their wealth and comfort more important that their neighbors, then they are not listening to scripture. If they do not listen to scripture, why in the world would they ever listen to the Belhar? That logic escapes me.
I'm very surprised that you feel that you cannot preach on the Belhar merely because it is not in the back of the hymnal. It is not really the belhar that should be preached on anyway, but certainly if the themes are valid and the principles are scriptural what would be stopping you from preaching on those themes or applying scripture in a practical way?
Other confessions were born out of life and death issues, usually in great turmoil, persecution, and earth-shaking times. The Belhar comes at a time when most of the principles it espouses are already supported by laws of our countries. The adoption of the Belhar is more of a whitewash over our own actions and attitudes. It is a way of looking good, rather than being good. And because it follows society, rather than leading it, our motives are suspect. And because it follows society, it will have a tendency to follow society down the broad path to destruction, rather than following Christ down the narrow path to God's will.
Posted in: Bishop Whipple Takes Heart
Coming from a background where my siblings and children are members of churches from eight different denominations, ranging from protestant reformed to baptist and pentecostal (but no anglicans nor rom cath), I have often asked myself what is God's purpose with regard to so many denominations or churches who all want to serve and worship the same Lord and Saviour. I'm not sure I have a very good answer, except maybe this, that personalities and personal quirks sometimes cause problems in one church situation, and another church situation can allow a method of worship and service that is more tempered to an individual at that time. Various disputable theologies and practices also play a role; we see changes sometimes in one denomination, but they happen too quickly or too slowly for some, or no change is desired. Sometimes history of experiences, or separation of family relationships, combined with a different worship environment, make old scriptural passages and applications take on a new life and vigour.
Underlying all of this, however, is the common purpose and unity that can exist between Christians in different churches and denominations. While differences are real, so is the unity also real. Sometimes there is greater unity between christians in different denominations or churches, than there is within one particular church. This might be because the focus changes to what unites, rather than to what separates, especially when churches want to work together.
This realization has also ocurred to me, that some churches have great theology, but members don't practice it, while other churches have sloppy or incomplete theology on paper, but members practice a great theology in daily life.
The different churches also allow some people to discover the essentials of the walk of faith, since they must separate their walk of faith from mere tradition, into a conscious discovery of God's will for their/our lives on a day to day basis with people who do not take their particular traditions for granted. This will bring them back to scripture and God's will on a deeper basis than they have ever perhaps done before.
Posted in: The Quran and the Mission of the Church
It seems to me that saying that we should respect the Quran the way Moslems respect it, reveals an ignorance of how moslems really regard the quran. We can understand how they respect it, but the only way to respect it the way they do is to accept Mohammed as the true prophet of Allah, and to follow all the precepts and commands in the quran. Which we cannot do.
Posted in: The Quran and the Mission of the Church
Bert, I agree with you that the quran will not help us to understand the bible better. But what I think was meant by the phrase (could have been said better), is that christians can use their knowledge of the quran to lead moslems to the bible. There are some similar sayings and there are some references to Jesus, which provide a kind of natural link to talking about the truths found in the bible. I agree with you that "Bridge" is a poor term, because it suggests we need to cross the bridge of quran in order to understand or receive scripture, and that is not so.
Posted in: Take Note
Norman, there are probably two ways of making progress on a discussion for change, just like there are two ways of learning. One way is to examine all the theoretical angles and possibilities at length. This way is great for philosophers and abstract thinkers. The other way is just to start doing something. Trial and error. If it works, great, if not then try again. For example you mentioned that we seem to be getting less devotional generally in the denomination. If you don't get much uptake in abstract undefined discussion, then perhaps it would be more effective to simply propose some change in focus for devotions. For example, we used to make mealtimes the primary focus of family devotions, but now mealtimes seem both hurried and disjointed in many cases. Perhaps it makes more sense for some to have family devotions with their children in the evening just before the kids go to bed. To allocate at least twenty or thirty minutes to bible reading, story telling, explanations, questions and singing. So here is a concrete proposal which can be debated or discussed as to pros and cons.
Or, for others, they might get up thirty minutes earlier every morning so that they have time for morning devotions before or during breakfast.
Perhaps some added impetus could be added as well, both in regards to teaching children who are entrusted to us by God, and who we would like to see in heaven, not in the other place. Some added impetus would also include the fact that if we do not spend time in devotions, perhaps we are lying when we say we love the Lord? and likely God will take note of that lie? Devotions are not just a side issue but they are foundational. Living without devotions is like being married without kissing your wife or husband; it can be done, but you might wonder if this stale life contains any love.
Posted in: The Parable of the Neglectful Gardener
Sam, your gardening analogy is interesting. I like my garden with potatoes as high as my pockets, and peas, beets, carrots doing their thing. Weeds are probably the biggest hindrance to growing a good garden, with fertility a big second, after moisture, of course. In your analogy, it would be interesting to imagine what the "weeds" are that we need to pull out, in order for the garden to thrive. And how do we pick these weeds without hurting the crop we want?
Posted in: What Language are You Using?
This is a good article. It is very important to use language that people understand. Last night I watched a movie called "Flywheel", produced by the same group as for "Courageous"and "Fireproof". In this movie the used car salesman heard a story from a customer who could no longer make payments on her car, and would have to give the car back, because of loss of work, medical bills, etc. The car salesman asked how much she still owed on the car, and she replied about $1200. He wrote her out a bill of sale and title to the car, and told her he believed her and that she no longer owed anything. Done. Car payments forgiven and eliminated. Maybe not a perfect example, but a modern example or analogy of God's grace. This example touched me because I could understand it, and maybe because of how it was presented.
Posted in: Twice (a Month) - the New Normal?
Scripture says it better than we do, doesn't it?
Posted in: Twice (a Month) - the New Normal?
Bev, in response to your hint for more official recognition of prayer and prophecy. It has been said that influence often has more impact than "authority". Of course, authority is required... someone must make some decisions. But influence can change the direction of those decisions. Thus often wives without direct authority still influence decisions of their husbands in very dramatic and significant ways. Consider Obama saying that he was influenced to flipflop on homo marriage due to influence of his wife and daughters. This is the practical side of whether it is important or not to sit at a particular table. If decision makers decide that the holy spirit is very important in prophecies, and that prophetic utterances ought to receive more attention, that might be interesting, but it won't gather much steam unless people trust them or accept them or feel that it is important. Another example is synod assessing ministry shares. They do that, but the churches donate about 70 some percent of those shares (I believe). Influence on the relative significance of synod's authority has more imact than the actual authority of synod itself.
Why do I say this? It is because if you really want to have an impact about the importance of prayer, and really want to highlight the possibility and significance of prohetic utterances and spiritual vision, then you have an unprecedented opportunity to do so on various electronic forums. This probably reaches more people than a table at synod, and in a more effective manner. People who respond and listen are more likely to change than those councils and administrators who toss correspondence into the garbage because there is already too much to deal with. Changing practices and understanding from the ground up is likely to be more effective than trying to change it from the top down. Invariably by the time it is changed from the top down (although we shouldn't call synod the top), it has already been majorly changed at the working level. In my opinion.
A prayer conference in Los Angelos or Sacramento does not require the approval of synod, for example. Nor will it necessarily be more effective if it does get that endorsement. Keep in mind also, that particular methods of ministry, or of prayer, may not be the guage of success. It may simply be the amount of time we spend as individuals, and the attitude of prayer that prevails in all our ordinary daily activities. It may be the cumulation of a whole number of different methods and priorities. Carry on, Bev. The need for prayer and the need for us to search for the leading of the spirit is very great. Very great! We need all the encouragement we can get.
Posted in: The Week That Was: Bin Laden's Death and Canada's Election
Our local MP is my oldest son's age. He is in his third term. He attended the Peace River Bible Institute, which my daughter and two other sons also attended. That someone like him can get elected, gives hope. But politics is a murky game, and so prayer is needed. May God give all these politicians the will and desire and ability to do the right things.
Posted in: To Judge or Not to Judge: That Is the Question
This is great, Verlyn! Four different words used to describe various aspects of judging. Discerning (recognizing ), judging ourselves, being judged by God, and being condemned... Lots to think about. I will think about this some more, but I will make a comment about the first instance you mentioned, diakrinon, "discerning the body of Christ". In the context of this passage, I understand the action being discussed is "eating without waiting for anyone else". This may be due to divisions, pride, arrogance, selfishness, carelessness, etc., and so the Lord's supper is not really happening, because they are not remembering what Christ has done, and so do not discern or recognize the body of Christ, ( a dual conotation) which is the people of God ( next chapter, same passage, I Cor. 12). If we don't remember Christ's sacrifice of his body for all, including for the chief of sinners, then we won't recognize the believers as being the body of Christ. The emphasis in this passage seems to be on discerning the people (body) of Christ. This context is rounded out in verse 33, when it says that we should wait for each other (share, be considerate, value all parts of the body...) and then verse 34 has the word, "judgement", again. Interesting, "judgement" is used for a seemingly superficial action, eating at home if you are hungry and can't wait for others.
Your explanation makes sense to me so far.
Posted in: Twice (a Month) - the New Normal?
I wonder if part of the reason why people many only attend church twice a month on average (which is similar to findings of national gallup and diary surverys), is because we can seem to discuss this issue so cooly and intellectually. Without passion, without purpose, without a sense of urgency or committment, there is no real reason for people to be concerned about whether they attend church every week or not. The lack of passion that allowed people to put social visiting, or football games or hockey games, or disney ahead of any extra effort it might take to gather together as God's people to honor God, rather than self, rather than human beings, rather than our own comfort or convenience, rather than work which could be done at another time, is the same cause for our present twice a month average as it was for our once a Sunday service (instead of twice a sunday, plus young people's in the evening).
I know people will come up with exceptions and all kinds of examples to the contrary, but the stats speak for themselves. In spite of fewer services, many people do less service and worship outside of worship services than they used to do in spite of twice a sunday worship. I'm presently reading thru Kings, and the repetition of a certain phrase sticks in my mind. A king would do what is pleasing to God, but he did not remove the high places where the people offered sacrifices and incense to other gods. Always the other false gods were in the background, causing a divergence of worship, replacing the single minded devotion to God that God himself required. In the end, Israel and Judah paid for their attempted worship of many gods, in a very serious and sad way. I wonder what we ourselves are really like.
Personally I just can't imagine how people could neglect worshipping God on sunday, in whatever location they are in, with whatever group of christians they can find. It would be like going to live with your secretary, or your boss, or your football friends every other week, instead of going home to your wife and kids. We are not removing the many "high places" of false worship in our lives.