I grew up in the CRC, and am still here, along with my family. I'm married to Daryl, who has a construction business. I had a CPA license for 10 or so years, then I added EX to the front, and MOM to the back, so now I'm an EX CPA, MOM =). I am MOM to Duncan, Ian and Samantha. Our family also owns a raspberry farm, and in the summers we get to work out there together.
God warns us in His Word, over & over, at least 30 times, to not be deceived. Something is significant when it is repeated so many times, especially by the Creator of the Universe!
I have a long list of laments over things I was taught somewhere along my journey of life that, in some cases, actually was the opposite of what I find when I have searched & examined the Scriptures more in depth, and in other cases, hyper focused on one doctrine at the expense of others. I often use the phrase, both/and. Often both views are right in ways, and both views are wrong in ways. Ie. complementarian & egalitarian.
I love the Greek word "peithesthe". This was a word that opened Greek debates in various forums (this word is an entire discussion on its own). It is a word that means to be open to being persuaded/convinced. It is so important in this time of confusion and deepening division, that we, especially as the family of God, continue to be curious and conversational with others. When we love one another as He loves us, we treat each other with dignity and respect even when we deeply disagree. Jesus still washed Judas' feet, Jesus still served Passover, the Lord's supper, to Judas. Jesus still went to the synagogue, even though He compared it to a den of vipers. Jesus tells us to love our enemies and pray for them. Not saying, those we disagree with are Judas or enemies, but sharing how Jesus treated those whom He knew would harm Him.
God also warns us to test everything, to use discernment/wisdom.
It is a painful yet profound journey to admit where we have been deceived/wrong, yet God's truth is far more beautiful than whatever the deception was we were believing, and the process of discovery is often life changing and healing.
Just reading the Banner article on Doubt... it seems to be a bit of a theme since Synod 2025...
Doubt is often part of the process of recognizing deception and deconstructing that deception, I call it a red flag that says pay attention to this. Something causes you to question something you have been taught over the years, it's part of the discerning/testing that is God warns us is necessary in our journey of faith. It shouldn't be scary or threatening, but an intentionally wanted and welcome part of the powerful practice of discernment.
In my journey, of what I call deconstructing and reconstructing aka re-form-ation, what is reconstructed is often far more beautiful than what I originally believed. The discerning process is work through prayer, pondering, and processing. It's often painful & heartbreaking, recognizing & lamenting where we have caused harm, been deceived, wrong, whatever, but it is also deep, rich & profound. It often will be life changing!
Unfortunately, questioning the status quo (reformed in our context) is often treated as a threat, instead of being encouraged and affirmed like the Bereans who examined and searched the scriptures as they tested what they were taught and told. It seems the powers that be are ok with minor, trivial corrections, but other subtle yet significant shifts are silenced and those who share these more significant concerns are often considered persona non grata, not wanted, not welcome, the very opposite of scripture.
I have many more thoughts on this, but again, this seems to be a theme, and what we find might make many of us uncomfortable as the status quo of some of our reformed doctrines might be seriously challenged.
In case anyone wants a short context for the purpose of the Nicene Creed: here is a list of the heresies it was addressing... I have done my own research on this, but Grok summarizes this way better, faster & shorter than I can...
I find it fascinating and heartbreaking we are dealing with some of the same beliefs today... Ie eternal subordination of the Son (ESS) to limit women's serving in the church in certain ways (this is an entire discussion on its own even today still!).
The following is the Grok/AI compilation that I have researched in the past, but would take me awhile to compile:
The Nicene Creed, established at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, was primarily formulated to address theological disputes, particularly those concerning the nature of Christ and the Trinity. Below is a list of the major heresies it aimed to counter, based on the theological context of the time:
Arianism
Description: Taught by Arius, a presbyter from Alexandria, Arianism claimed that the Son (Jesus Christ) was a created being, subordinate to the Father, and not co-eternal or consubstantial with Him. Arius argued that "there was a time when the Son was not," denying the full divinity of Christ.
Nicene Response: The Creed affirms that the Son is "begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father," emphasizing Christ's full divinity, co-eternity, and equality with the Father.
Sabellianism (Modalism)
Description: Also known as Modalistic Monarchianism, Sabellianism taught that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not distinct persons but different modes or manifestations of a single divine being. This denied the distinct personhood within the Trinity.
Nicene Response: The Creed clearly delineates the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct entities while affirming their unity in one Godhead, countering the idea of God merely appearing in different forms.
Adoptionism (Dynamic Monarchianism)
Description: This heresy posited that Jesus was a human who was "adopted" by God at a point in time (e.g., at his baptism or resurrection), receiving divine power but not being divine by nature.
Nicene Response: The Creed declares that the Son is "true God from true God," eternally begotten and divine by nature, not a human elevated to divine status.
Gnosticism
Description: While not the primary focus, Gnostic influences lingered, teaching that the material world was evil and that Christ was a purely spiritual being who only appeared human (Docetism, a Gnostic variant). This denied the true incarnation of Christ.
Nicene Response: The Creed emphasizes that the Son "became incarnate" and "was made man," affirming the reality of Christ's human nature alongside his divine nature.
Subordinationism
Description: A broader tendency in some early Christian thought to view the Son and Holy Spirit as subordinate to the Father in essence or rank, even if not as extreme as Arianism.
Nicene Response: The Creed’s use of "consubstantial" (homoousios) ensures that the Son is of the same essence as the Father, rejecting any hierarchy of essence within the Trinity.
Context and Notes:
The Council of Nicaea was convened by Emperor Constantine to resolve disputes, particularly Arianism, which was causing significant division in the early Church.
The Creed was later expanded at the Council of Constantinople (381 AD) to further clarify the role of the Holy Spirit, addressing additional heresies like Macedonianism (which denied the divinity of the Holy Spirit).
The primary focus in 325 AD was Arianism, as it posed the most immediate threat to orthodox Christian doctrine regarding Christ’s nature.
This list is based on historical accounts of the theological debates surrounding the Council of Nicaea, as found in early Church writings and scholarly analyses of the period. If you’d like a deeper dive into any specific heresy or the Creed’s phrasing, let me know!
The second aspect I find interesting and will share is the 20 canons that the Nicene Council also made along with the Creed. Nicaea - Canons of the 325 Council
These canons seem to have been ignored for the most part unlike the Canons of Dort. I find the Nicene Canons are quite helpful in giving additional context for what the early church was dealing with at the time. #1 Castration? #19 Paulianists (a different Paul than the Apostle Paul)? deaconesses? The contexts for these are very, very interesting and insightful and help us better understand other difficult texts of the New Testament, such as Paul's letter to Timothy.
interesting updates on NDAs... I've been wondering about this over the years since I presented this recommendation to Synod in 2018. It is confirming to see that this recommendation helped the CRC be a bit ahead of the curve re addressing NDAs.
The secular culture has had some pretty amazing changes to address NDA type documents in the last 7 years. NDAs were not just a problem in the CRC, but other denominations and institutions as well in covering up abuses of power and preventing necessary changes to address the abuses of power due to the silencing of those involved.
One of a number of reasons I find NDAs egregious in the Church is that there is no time limit. People were silenced for their entire life which often protected leaders who were abusing their power, for a short-term severance in return. RZIM (Ravi Zacharias Int'l Ministry) is a classic case of this. These abuses of power caused the deep wounds of God's daughters/people that Jeremiah 6 &8 mentions that the leaders failed to address well.
God's way is in the light. Even the Gov't is promoting transparency. We all still have a ways to go, but hopefully/prayerfully we can keep heading in the right direction.
here are a few examples of how NDAs are being addressed theologically, legislatively...
#NDAFREE started in 2021 addressing NDAs in the Church/ministry context...
"hell" is a conflation of the biblical Sheol/Hades/grave, gehenna, tartarus, lake of fire, the abyss, the outer darkness w weeping and gnashing of teeth and maybe one or two more concepts. Hades is also the name of the (demonic) Greek god of the underworld.
Eternal conscious torment is one of the traditional views of hell. It's not the only view, but it has become the primary one w Calvin's help. Luther disagreed with this view. I'm with Luther on this!
Eternal death is another view. God uses language that has a sense of finality 50+ times in scripture, such as death (ie wages of sin is death), destruction/destroy (ie fear the One Who can destroy both body & soul), perish (ie shall not perish), end, be no more...
the demons will be tormented forever bc they will be in God's consuming fiery presence (ie lake of fire) and they hate God.
Universalism is another traditional view. Quite a few of the Church Fathers believed this at some point in their journeys of faith.
If you want scriptural support (I have lists), further discussion, thoughts, questions, I would love to continue this "conversation" ... This is just a quick summary off the top of my head from my research a few years ago.
In the end, God promises He will make ALL THINGS NEW!
Interesting perspective! not sure what I expected when I clicked on this headline, but something possibly along the lines of addressing mental health. Thanks for sharing your personal journey of transformation through an unexpected path of brain trauma.
The Reformed/Presb./Calvinists (might just apply to Dutch/Friesians/Germans/Scots ;) seem to tend to be heavily intellectual, rational, and stoic, all good things, but there is so much more!
I did have a near death experience (NDE) I survived, the little one I had been carrying for 7 mos. inside me, did not. I will never be the same person I was before that. It was the start of what I call God converting me from a Ms. Martha to a Ms. Mary. Very painful, very profound journey. Intellectual -> Intimacy (spiritual), rational/transactional-> relational, stoic -> sensitive, linking the head and heart through the Holy Spirit revelation of opening the eyes of my heart to know Him more.
It's been almost 3 decades now since the loss of our first little one and my NDE. My husband and I have been blessed with 7 children, 3 living here with us and 4 with Jesus. The Spirit has transformed my faith and identity into a deep, rich and beautiful relationship with HIM, our Heavenly Father, as His precious daughter, as a new creation in Christ, as a temple of the Holy Spirit, and more, that I didn't even know was possible.
Bless your heart for being honest and still manage to be gracious as well. I would have ranted a whole lot more! Guess I need a lot more sanctification =/
Yes, what you share resonates (I'm on the west coast as well)....disconnect...resentment...frustration. so that's all I'll say before I say things I probably shouldn't... God's working on me to honor the crc as part of His Bride. and some days I really struggle for various reasons...
fyi, Rich, Dennis Fuqua will be in B'ham for a 4 hour pastors prayer summit on Monday, Oct. 3 from 8-12 if you are interested/available...
A brief break from lots of words... I came across this video in my research for sources of authente type words... he also shares around 7:50 another possibility of the meaning "authentein"... (yup, there has been a lot of work on this specific word in the last 30-50 years!)
I had completely forgotten about the Ephesiaca document... this video shares why it has been largely ignored until the last 20 years or so due to erroneously dating of the Ephesiaca by Xenophon of Ephesus to a century or more post Paul... in 1996, it was determined it was written about 50AD... this 1st century contemporaneous document confirms the correctives that Paul is writes Timothy in 1 Tim 2... again, this is an example of the information that has come out post Synod 1996. @ 5 minutes, Gary talks about how teaching/learning happened in the temple of Artemis (I said I hadn't researched that part much, but I had heard this concept somewhere before, just didn't remember the details...)
ps... I do have the hupotage comment drafted... so you will see that later!
oh my!!! so far have watched about 6 -7 hours of the 11 hours (I've been sick, so this was something I could do to keep my mind off being tired & miserable)... now I know a bit of what others feel like reading my long posts... but there is so much to cover that is being brought to the table for the first time especially in the last 5 years or so on this!
here's a few more thoughts so far...
So I did watch the last hour of the 4.5 hour chapter on 1 Tim 2:12... this hour pretty much dealt with the "oude" word & I had mentioned this in a 12.26.23 response on Rob's #2 concern: Secondly, if Paul meant this word in such a negative way, why does he couple it with didasko (teach) which is a positive term throughout the Bible?
I agree with MW that Kostenberger makes a strong case that oude makes either both positive or both pejorative, however, I still believe they are both negative in this usage. I don't think it became considered commonly neutral/positive until the gnostics started using it to describe their all powerful divine being in the 2nd cent AD, but even then it could be considered negative bc the Gnostics believed their "authentia" was supreme over the Hebrew God, so BIG problem!
a bit disappointed with both sides, lots that needs further work recognizing most of this material has only recently come to the attentions of both sides - the pantheon of gods/goddesses in that region have been mostly ignored over the ages for a lot of reasons, including there was very little information that could be accessed until recently on how these cults impacted Ephesus & surrounding regions... This context of Artemis/Diana, etal (& to make it even more confusing there are some significant differences b/t Artemis of the Ephesians & several variations of the Greek Artemis aka Roman Diana aka Egyptian Isis aka Persian asherah aka OT Queen of heaven are all different culture's manifestations of a fertility type goddess), the specifics of these cults have really only started to be researched, with exception of the Kroeger's 1992 Suffer not a Woman, in the last 20 years or so & probably most of it in the last 5 years or so with increased realization that Artemis is a significant aspect of the Ephesus culture, despite what MW has concluded (unfortunately the Kroeger's book was dismissed by scholars as bizarre & farfetched bc it dealt with bizarre & farfetched rituals of the mystery religions (aka witchcraft) that were secret... no one seems to want to touch that! Some egals are distancing themselves from any bizarre fertility rites (aka witchcraft!!!) going on in Ephesus region! Well, it does make one cringe as emasculation seems to have been part of the process for some of the male priests of some of the goddesses like cybele & it seems like she had an altar/statue in the temple of Artemis...
MW right away dismisses the negative uses of authentein for a variety of reasons & some of his reasons don't make sense. Like well, men shouldn't teach false doctrine (or murder) either, so that can't be what authentein means, since that doesn't just apply to women, all the while ignoring that Paul switched from plural women to singular woman, yet seems to believe whatever the prohibition is should be applied to only women!
so far, did not see any mention of the Gnostic influence as one of the false teachings being spread in Ephesus... also did not hear any reason why Paul/Holy Spirit would have chosen authentein, which is such a rare word, if he really intended a general authority. He would have known authentein would probably have been kind of shocking to those who heard it. Using this here for exercise authority doesn't make sense even if it was just becoming common at the time, instead of exousia or kurieous, words that were common & had already been used by Paul in other letters.
At about 6:02 MW notes that Clement with his classical background, uses both negative & positive uses of authentes bc he would have known both attic & koine Greek, why can't we use the same logic for Paul for those who think it had a positive common meaning at the time?!? Paul most likely also had a classical background & was a complex intellectual, he knew & possibly quoted the Wisdom of Solomon in Romans 1. There are a number of significant aspects that still have not been addressed... granted I have about 4 -5 more hours to watch
MW addresses artemis of the ephesians to a point & completely missed that the Greek word tx as busybodies in 1 Tim 5:13 is the same Greek word for workers of magic in Acts 19.. No reference at all to hecate who I believe is also alluded to in 1 Tim as the crone goddess of witchcraft. Cybele is another significant influence that had very bizarre & bloody rituals. MW mockingly dismisses "murders" as any possible meaning of authentein even though just a few paragraphs earlier he specifies 2 kin murders, manslayer & refers to himself as violent (I think most probably knew he was also guilty of murder via persecution!). as one fairly well known egal that MW mentions said to me "murder was definitely not on Paul's mind"... I disagreed & said "murder definitely was on Paul's mind"... based on chapter 1!
Bees are somehow part of the cult of Artemis of the Ephesians,. Those who mate w queen bees die in a gruesome way.... the "regalia" of Artemis of the Ephesians has significant meanings that we have barely looked at. I think Clinton Arnold was very uncomfortable thinking about the possibilities of what those strange large eggshaped objects on Artemis are!
These cultic practices were secret for millenial, there's a reason many cults are connected with "mystery religions". I believe there was a 2nd temple of Artemis close to Ephesus that was specifically for where the mystery rites were practiced. Rev 2 talks about the deep things of satan aka mystery rituals. Evidence of spells & curses have been found in Western Asia Minor including re poisoning husbands.
So there are still other considerable aspects of the culture that need to to be looked at. around the turn of the era, there was a syncretism of judaism + sorcery + astrology => secret knowledge aka mystery religions... later Christianity was added into the mix, this eventually developed into what we now call gnosticism. the Gnostics co-opted the use of "authentes"... this very likely influenced how early church fathers, including Jerome understood it.
the myths & geneologies (1 Tim 1:3) of the cults & the gnostics are pretty bizarre with probably more overlap than we know bc of the secret mysteries associated with them both... it gets into the essenes (started 2nd BCE), the naassenes & their snake worship venerating satan in the garden bc the serpent gave humans, specifically EVE, the key to KNOWLEDGE! The creation story gets blasphemously twisted by the gnostics & some of their ideas seem to have started in the 1st cent BC. probably not your typical SS class!!!
The following is evidence of the gnostics (Cerinthus was considered an early gnostic, part of the Simonian school - yes that Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8) being a problem in Ephesus at the time of the Apostles....Here's an encounter of the Apostle John at a bathhouse in EPHESUS per Irenaeus as told to him by Polycarp his mentor who was a student of John...
In Asia, early Christian writers identify Cerinthus as an adversary of the Apostle John. According to Irenaeus, his teacher Polycarp, himself a student of John,[15] told the story that John rushed out of a bathhouse at Ephesus without bathing when he found out Cerinthus was inside, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is inside!"[16][17] Irenaeus also relates that John sought by proclamation of his gospel "to remove that error which by Cerinthus had been disseminated among men".[18]Cerinthus - Wikipedia
Hope you found it a bit enlightening & entertaining! Against Heresies by Irenaeus is something that might need to be read to better understand the gnostics... The gnostic writings found in 1945 added a new dimension to this discussion in the last several decades as their translations did not become released into the broader public until the late 80s & gradually became a part of the general academic discussion over the next few decades. Again, after the 1995-1996 synod decision re women.
Posted in: We Are Blessed
Thank you, Eric, for reading through these and responding!
YES, the beautiful Aaronic blessing!!
It was listed #2 in my draft that I sent to the CRC network to publish, but not sure why it is not in included here.
Thank you for noticing that omission!
...
Posted in: We Are Blessed
Again, thanks Eric. I submitted an edit with the Aaronic blessing back in the list & added the rest of my title before the last paragraph ;)
WE ARE BLESSED... TO BE A BLESSING TO ONE ANOTHER
Posted in: In Search of Wisdom in the Midst of Doubt
God warns us in His Word, over & over, at least 30 times, to not be deceived. Something is significant when it is repeated so many times, especially by the Creator of the Universe!
I have a long list of laments over things I was taught somewhere along my journey of life that, in some cases, actually was the opposite of what I find when I have searched & examined the Scriptures more in depth, and in other cases, hyper focused on one doctrine at the expense of others. I often use the phrase, both/and. Often both views are right in ways, and both views are wrong in ways. Ie. complementarian & egalitarian.
I love the Greek word "peithesthe". This was a word that opened Greek debates in various forums (this word is an entire discussion on its own). It is a word that means to be open to being persuaded/convinced. It is so important in this time of confusion and deepening division, that we, especially as the family of God, continue to be curious and conversational with others. When we love one another as He loves us, we treat each other with dignity and respect even when we deeply disagree. Jesus still washed Judas' feet, Jesus still served Passover, the Lord's supper, to Judas. Jesus still went to the synagogue, even though He compared it to a den of vipers. Jesus tells us to love our enemies and pray for them. Not saying, those we disagree with are Judas or enemies, but sharing how Jesus treated those whom He knew would harm Him.
God also warns us to test everything, to use discernment/wisdom.
It is a painful yet profound journey to admit where we have been deceived/wrong, yet God's truth is far more beautiful than whatever the deception was we were believing, and the process of discovery is often life changing and healing.
Metanoia: Moving Beyond Mere Repentance | CRC Network
Being humble and open in our communication with love is a key!
Posted in: In Search of Wisdom in the Midst of Doubt
Just reading the Banner article on Doubt... it seems to be a bit of a theme since Synod 2025...
Doubt is often part of the process of recognizing deception and deconstructing that deception, I call it a red flag that says pay attention to this. Something causes you to question something you have been taught over the years, it's part of the discerning/testing that is God warns us is necessary in our journey of faith. It shouldn't be scary or threatening, but an intentionally wanted and welcome part of the powerful practice of discernment.
In my journey, of what I call deconstructing and reconstructing aka re-form-ation, what is reconstructed is often far more beautiful than what I originally believed. The discerning process is work through prayer, pondering, and processing. It's often painful & heartbreaking, recognizing & lamenting where we have caused harm, been deceived, wrong, whatever, but it is also deep, rich & profound. It often will be life changing!
Unfortunately, questioning the status quo (reformed in our context) is often treated as a threat, instead of being encouraged and affirmed like the Bereans who examined and searched the scriptures as they tested what they were taught and told. It seems the powers that be are ok with minor, trivial corrections, but other subtle yet significant shifts are silenced and those who share these more significant concerns are often considered persona non grata, not wanted, not welcome, the very opposite of scripture.
I have many more thoughts on this, but again, this seems to be a theme, and what we find might make many of us uncomfortable as the status quo of some of our reformed doctrines might be seriously challenged.
Posted in: Resources to Commemorate the 1,700th Anniversary of the Nicene Creed
In case anyone wants a short context for the purpose of the Nicene Creed: here is a list of the heresies it was addressing... I have done my own research on this, but Grok summarizes this way better, faster & shorter than I can...
I find it fascinating and heartbreaking we are dealing with some of the same beliefs today... Ie eternal subordination of the Son (ESS) to limit women's serving in the church in certain ways (this is an entire discussion on its own even today still!).
The following is the Grok/AI compilation that I have researched in the past, but would take me awhile to compile:
The Nicene Creed, established at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, was primarily formulated to address theological disputes, particularly those concerning the nature of Christ and the Trinity. Below is a list of the major heresies it aimed to counter, based on the theological context of the time:
Context and Notes:
This list is based on historical accounts of the theological debates surrounding the Council of Nicaea, as found in early Church writings and scholarly analyses of the period. If you’d like a deeper dive into any specific heresy or the Creed’s phrasing, let me know!
Posted in: Resources to Commemorate the 1,700th Anniversary of the Nicene Creed
The second aspect I find interesting and will share is the 20 canons that the Nicene Council also made along with the Creed. Nicaea - Canons of the 325 Council
These canons seem to have been ignored for the most part unlike the Canons of Dort. I find the Nicene Canons are quite helpful in giving additional context for what the early church was dealing with at the time. #1 Castration? #19 Paulianists (a different Paul than the Apostle Paul)? deaconesses? The contexts for these are very, very interesting and insightful and help us better understand other difficult texts of the New Testament, such as Paul's letter to Timothy.
Posted in: Separation Agreement Templates: Documenting the Goodbye
interesting updates on NDAs... I've been wondering about this over the years since I presented this recommendation to Synod in 2018. It is confirming to see that this recommendation helped the CRC be a bit ahead of the curve re addressing NDAs.
The secular culture has had some pretty amazing changes to address NDA type documents in the last 7 years. NDAs were not just a problem in the CRC, but other denominations and institutions as well in covering up abuses of power and preventing necessary changes to address the abuses of power due to the silencing of those involved.
One of a number of reasons I find NDAs egregious in the Church is that there is no time limit. People were silenced for their entire life which often protected leaders who were abusing their power, for a short-term severance in return. RZIM (Ravi Zacharias Int'l Ministry) is a classic case of this. These abuses of power caused the deep wounds of God's daughters/people that Jeremiah 6 &8 mentions that the leaders failed to address well.
God's way is in the light. Even the Gov't is promoting transparency. We all still have a ways to go, but hopefully/prayerfully we can keep heading in the right direction.
here are a few examples of how NDAs are being addressed theologically, legislatively...
#NDAFREE started in 2021 addressing NDAs in the Church/ministry context...
https://julieroys.com/nda-free-christian-orgs/
https://www.ndafree.org/stories/
https://www.ndafree.org/resources/theological-reflections/
TEXAS in 2025:
https://julieroys.com/tx-law-prohibit-misuse-non-disclosure-agreements-approved-house-vote/
FEDERAL AND WA STATE in 2022:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/biden-signs-law-curbing-nondisclosure-agreements-that-block-victims-of-sexual-harassment-from-speaking-out
https://nwsidebar.wsba.org/2022/06/06/what-you-need-to-know-about-washingtons-silenced-no-more-act/
Posted in: What Does the Bible Say about Hell?
Interesting question Matt... Curious what prompted this question?
a lot of our traditional beliefs/ideas about hell are based on Dante's inferno and it's 9 levels written in the 1300s...
https://historylists.org/art/9-circles-of-hell-dantes-inferno.html
"hell" is a conflation of the biblical Sheol/Hades/grave, gehenna, tartarus, lake of fire, the abyss, the outer darkness w weeping and gnashing of teeth and maybe one or two more concepts. Hades is also the name of the (demonic) Greek god of the underworld.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hades-Greek-mythology
https://www.britannica.com/topic/afterlife-religion
Eternal conscious torment is one of the traditional views of hell. It's not the only view, but it has become the primary one w Calvin's help. Luther disagreed with this view. I'm with Luther on this!
Eternal death is another view. God uses language that has a sense of finality 50+ times in scripture, such as death (ie wages of sin is death), destruction/destroy (ie fear the One Who can destroy both body & soul), perish (ie shall not perish), end, be no more...
the demons will be tormented forever bc they will be in God's consuming fiery presence (ie lake of fire) and they hate God.
Universalism is another traditional view. Quite a few of the Church Fathers believed this at some point in their journeys of faith.
If you want scriptural support (I have lists), further discussion, thoughts, questions, I would love to continue this "conversation" ... This is just a quick summary off the top of my head from my research a few years ago.
In the end, God promises He will make ALL THINGS NEW!
Posted in: Are We Out of Our Minds?
Interesting perspective! not sure what I expected when I clicked on this headline, but something possibly along the lines of addressing mental health. Thanks for sharing your personal journey of transformation through an unexpected path of brain trauma.
The Reformed/Presb./Calvinists (might just apply to Dutch/Friesians/Germans/Scots ;) seem to tend to be heavily intellectual, rational, and stoic, all good things, but there is so much more!
I did have a near death experience (NDE) I survived, the little one I had been carrying for 7 mos. inside me, did not. I will never be the same person I was before that. It was the start of what I call God converting me from a Ms. Martha to a Ms. Mary. Very painful, very profound journey. Intellectual -> Intimacy (spiritual), rational/transactional-> relational, stoic -> sensitive, linking the head and heart through the Holy Spirit revelation of opening the eyes of my heart to know Him more.
It's been almost 3 decades now since the loss of our first little one and my NDE. My husband and I have been blessed with 7 children, 3 living here with us and 4 with Jesus. The Spirit has transformed my faith and identity into a deep, rich and beautiful relationship with HIM, our Heavenly Father, as His precious daughter, as a new creation in Christ, as a temple of the Holy Spirit, and more, that I didn't even know was possible.
For His glory and our good...
Posted in: Is It Just Me, or ...
Bless your heart for being honest and still manage to be gracious as well. I would have ranted a whole lot more! Guess I need a lot more sanctification =/
Yes, what you share resonates (I'm on the west coast as well)....disconnect...resentment...frustration. so that's all I'll say before I say things I probably shouldn't... God's working on me to honor the crc as part of His Bride. and some days I really struggle for various reasons...
fyi, Rich, Dennis Fuqua will be in B'ham for a 4 hour pastors prayer summit on Monday, Oct. 3 from 8-12 if you are interested/available...
http://lowpc.org/summit
Posted in: A Christian Discussion on Women in Office
A brief break from lots of words... I came across this video in my research for sources of authente type words... he also shares around 7:50 another possibility of the meaning "authentein"... (yup, there has been a lot of work on this specific word in the last 30-50 years!)
(755) Why Women Must Learn in Quietness and Submission: Xenophon of Ephesus and 1 Timothy 2 (Gary Hoag) - YouTube
I had completely forgotten about the Ephesiaca document... this video shares why it has been largely ignored until the last 20 years or so due to erroneously dating of the Ephesiaca by Xenophon of Ephesus to a century or more post Paul... in 1996, it was determined it was written about 50AD... this 1st century contemporaneous document confirms the correctives that Paul is writes Timothy in 1 Tim 2... again, this is an example of the information that has come out post Synod 1996. @ 5 minutes, Gary talks about how teaching/learning happened in the temple of Artemis (I said I hadn't researched that part much, but I had heard this concept somewhere before, just didn't remember the details...)
ps... I do have the hupotage comment drafted... so you will see that later!
Posted in: A Christian Discussion on Women in Office
oh my!!! so far have watched about 6 -7 hours of the 11 hours (I've been sick, so this was something I could do to keep my mind off being tired & miserable)... now I know a bit of what others feel like reading my long posts... but there is so much to cover that is being brought to the table for the first time especially in the last 5 years or so on this!
here's a few more thoughts so far...
So I did watch the last hour of the 4.5 hour chapter on 1 Tim 2:12... this hour pretty much dealt with the "oude" word & I had mentioned this in a 12.26.23 response on Rob's #2 concern: Secondly, if Paul meant this word in such a negative way, why does he couple it with didasko (teach) which is a positive term throughout the Bible?
I agree with MW that Kostenberger makes a strong case that oude makes either both positive or both pejorative, however, I still believe they are both negative in this usage. I don't think it became considered commonly neutral/positive until the gnostics started using it to describe their all powerful divine being in the 2nd cent AD, but even then it could be considered negative bc the Gnostics believed their "authentia" was supreme over the Hebrew God, so BIG problem!
a bit disappointed with both sides, lots that needs further work recognizing most of this material has only recently come to the attentions of both sides - the pantheon of gods/goddesses in that region have been mostly ignored over the ages for a lot of reasons, including there was very little information that could be accessed until recently on how these cults impacted Ephesus & surrounding regions... This context of Artemis/Diana, etal (& to make it even more confusing there are some significant differences b/t Artemis of the Ephesians & several variations of the Greek Artemis aka Roman Diana aka Egyptian Isis aka Persian asherah aka OT Queen of heaven are all different culture's manifestations of a fertility type goddess), the specifics of these cults have really only started to be researched, with exception of the Kroeger's 1992 Suffer not a Woman, in the last 20 years or so & probably most of it in the last 5 years or so with increased realization that Artemis is a significant aspect of the Ephesus culture, despite what MW has concluded (unfortunately the Kroeger's book was dismissed by scholars as bizarre & farfetched bc it dealt with bizarre & farfetched rituals of the mystery religions (aka witchcraft) that were secret... no one seems to want to touch that! Some egals are distancing themselves from any bizarre fertility rites (aka witchcraft!!!) going on in Ephesus region! Well, it does make one cringe as emasculation seems to have been part of the process for some of the male priests of some of the goddesses like cybele & it seems like she had an altar/statue in the temple of Artemis...
MW right away dismisses the negative uses of authentein for a variety of reasons & some of his reasons don't make sense. Like well, men shouldn't teach false doctrine (or murder) either, so that can't be what authentein means, since that doesn't just apply to women, all the while ignoring that Paul switched from plural women to singular woman, yet seems to believe whatever the prohibition is should be applied to only women!
even 6-7 hours of MW's work has a lot of information that needs to be looked at. I haven't watched any of his other videos, but I know others have responded to his earlier videos... What Winger Presently Gets Wrong: The Head Covering Debates (1 Cor 11) - Terran Williams
& they haven't had time to process these 11 hours yet A First Response to Mike Winger’s 11½ Hrs Video on 1 Timothy 2 - Terran Williams
so far, did not see any mention of the Gnostic influence as one of the false teachings being spread in Ephesus... also did not hear any reason why Paul/Holy Spirit would have chosen authentein, which is such a rare word, if he really intended a general authority. He would have known authentein would probably have been kind of shocking to those who heard it. Using this here for exercise authority doesn't make sense even if it was just becoming common at the time, instead of exousia or kurieous, words that were common & had already been used by Paul in other letters.
At about 6:02 MW notes that Clement with his classical background, uses both negative & positive uses of authentes bc he would have known both attic & koine Greek, why can't we use the same logic for Paul for those who think it had a positive common meaning at the time?!? Paul most likely also had a classical background & was a complex intellectual, he knew & possibly quoted the Wisdom of Solomon in Romans 1. There are a number of significant aspects that still have not been addressed... granted I have about 4 -5 more hours to watch
MW addresses artemis of the ephesians to a point & completely missed that the Greek word tx as busybodies in 1 Tim 5:13 is the same Greek word for workers of magic in Acts 19.. No reference at all to hecate who I believe is also alluded to in 1 Tim as the crone goddess of witchcraft. Cybele is another significant influence that had very bizarre & bloody rituals. MW mockingly dismisses "murders" as any possible meaning of authentein even though just a few paragraphs earlier he specifies 2 kin murders, manslayer & refers to himself as violent (I think most probably knew he was also guilty of murder via persecution!). as one fairly well known egal that MW mentions said to me "murder was definitely not on Paul's mind"... I disagreed & said "murder definitely was on Paul's mind"... based on chapter 1!
Bees are somehow part of the cult of Artemis of the Ephesians,. Those who mate w queen bees die in a gruesome way.... the "regalia" of Artemis of the Ephesians has significant meanings that we have barely looked at. I think Clinton Arnold was very uncomfortable thinking about the possibilities of what those strange large eggshaped objects on Artemis are!
These cultic practices were secret for millenial, there's a reason many cults are connected with "mystery religions". I believe there was a 2nd temple of Artemis close to Ephesus that was specifically for where the mystery rites were practiced. Rev 2 talks about the deep things of satan aka mystery rituals. Evidence of spells & curses have been found in Western Asia Minor including re poisoning husbands.
So there are still other considerable aspects of the culture that need to to be looked at. around the turn of the era, there was a syncretism of judaism + sorcery + astrology => secret knowledge aka mystery religions... later Christianity was added into the mix, this eventually developed into what we now call gnosticism. the Gnostics co-opted the use of "authentes"... this very likely influenced how early church fathers, including Jerome understood it.
the myths & geneologies (1 Tim 1:3) of the cults & the gnostics are pretty bizarre with probably more overlap than we know bc of the secret mysteries associated with them both... it gets into the essenes (started 2nd BCE), the naassenes & their snake worship venerating satan in the garden bc the serpent gave humans, specifically EVE, the key to KNOWLEDGE! The creation story gets blasphemously twisted by the gnostics & some of their ideas seem to have started in the 1st cent BC. probably not your typical SS class!!!
The following is evidence of the gnostics (Cerinthus was considered an early gnostic, part of the Simonian school - yes that Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8) being a problem in Ephesus at the time of the Apostles....Here's an encounter of the Apostle John at a bathhouse in EPHESUS per Irenaeus as told to him by Polycarp his mentor who was a student of John...
In Asia, early Christian writers identify Cerinthus as an adversary of the Apostle John. According to Irenaeus, his teacher Polycarp, himself a student of John,[15] told the story that John rushed out of a bathhouse at Ephesus without bathing when he found out Cerinthus was inside, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is inside!"[16][17] Irenaeus also relates that John sought by proclamation of his gospel "to remove that error which by Cerinthus had been disseminated among men".[18] Cerinthus - Wikipedia
Hope you found it a bit enlightening & entertaining! Against Heresies by Irenaeus is something that might need to be read to better understand the gnostics... The gnostic writings found in 1945 added a new dimension to this discussion in the last several decades as their translations did not become released into the broader public until the late 80s & gradually became a part of the general academic discussion over the next few decades. Again, after the 1995-1996 synod decision re women.