Bev Sterk

definitely thought you guys looked young enough that they were yours  =)

I re-read my post on the link and realized the "about 12-13 minutes in" could be read 2 different ways.... so when you watch the link, Moses really starts talking about his prayer journey in Korea, that starts at about 12 or 13 minutes in, and this goes through about 17 minutes or so, just in case you are listening for it only between 12-13 minutes...  sorry if I caused confusion

That is so interesting and excitiing how God is connecting us in the area of listening prayer...  I too, have prayed with others involved in healing prayer ministries (but not CRC or even reformed backgrounds), and went through some training for this.    At this point in my life - with little ones (11, 7 and 5), I don't get to go in and pray with them very often, so most of my prayer time is at home...   we do pray together as a family every night before bed, and,  especially if we need direction with something, take time for listening prayer...  my son, who's 11 has several testimonies of scriptures the LORD put on his heart that were beautiful answers to what we were asking. 

One testimony is last Christmas, I asked him to sing with me in a combined church Christmas cantata that brought  singers from the local CRC's together, since they were organizing a youth choir to participate as well.   So I mentioned it to him, and his response was "do I have to?"  My response, was, "no, you get to sing, but you have to have a good attitude."  So, that night when we had our prayer time together, I said, let's ask God, whether He wants you to sing in this cantata.    We were quiet about  5 minutes,  I rec'd a scripture, but didn't share it right away, and then I asked him if he had any thoughts or any scriptures came to him... He said "Isaiah 5"...  I asked him, "do you know what Is. 5 says?"  He responded "no", so we looked it up, and Is. 5 is the "Song of the Vineyard" and starts with... now let me sing to my Well-beloved...  So I asked my son, what he thought God was telling him, and he said "Sing!" (can't get any clearer than that!)  and for the next half hour, he continued to receive more scripture references about singing...

The scripture that "popped" into my head was "make a joyful noise!"   We both sang in the Christmas cantata last year =)  !

Now, there's a whole lot more to this story...because when we showed up at the first practice, by the time we started practicing the first song, it was my attitude that was not good (and that's putting it mildly)...  and I just realized as I was writing this, that God was going to hold me to the words I said to my son and wanted me to sing it with the right attitude as well... and boy, did He ever "undo" my bad attiude...   the first verse, I didn't even know what I was singing I was so mad, in the second verse He melted the hardness in my heart and by the 3rd verse I was a basket case about ready to walk out because I did not know what I was going to do with all the "fluids" flowing from various places of my face...  I had NOT "listened" to the prompting of the Holy Spirit as I walked in to practice that "you might want to get some kleenex"...My intellect immediately responsed to that with a snarky thought..."why would I need kleenex for practice?"  and dismissed the thought...  it was what I call a "terrible, beautiful" experience of being "undone", taking out the ugliness that was in my heart, and replacing it with a beautiful piece of His heart...

I don't mind being more specific about what was going on and why I was mad and how He got my attention, but it gets kind of long for this post...  I will work on writing that out, and maybe if the network gets a testimony tab  (hint hint moderators;-), I can post it under that some time  =)...

I can't wait to hear about your trip...that is way cool... I sensed the Spirit when I read about it, and now again, when I'm thinking about it (I just read it again, and I felt another wave of the Spirit)...  If you are blogging on it, let me know where I can find that... would love to hear everything... It's going to be amazing...

In Him..

Well, I have been to a number of prayer retreats.  several were pastor/prayer leader summits.  Some were 3 days, some are 1/2 day, about 4 hours, and some are 1-2 days, some included some teaching.  Some  were facilitated by Dennis Fuqua, who uses a wonderful, fresh approach to prayer, and focuses a lot on worship based prayer.   I think having someone like Dennis come for a weekend to teach, preach and pray with a church or several churches would be very helpful in expanding/growing  a church's/community's prayer life.  It opens the door to praying differently then we have traditionally prayed in our reformed tradition.    It's not wild and crazy, but beautiful and sweet, with everything directed by the Holy Spirit, and straight out of scripture... something our conservative inclinations can be ok with.  Dennis is a very down to earth man of prayer, and we've appreciated his leading through his sensitivity to the Holy Spirit in growing the level of prayer in our area.  let me find the link to his ministry, International Renewal:

http://irm.livewebsitebuilder.com/

and this is another link for Dennis

http://livingprayerbook.web.officelive.com/aboutus.aspx

I also get together regularly with Dr. Alvin Vander Griend, Author of love to pray, and a founder of the Harvest Prayer Ministries.  I know he has amazing and powerful teachings on prayer, with very practical guides to help the church grow a "culture of prayer."

The board for the prayer center i help serve on, tries to have a quarterly prayer retreat.  So far, these have been 9-4ish on a Friday or Sat.  We will spend time confessing  and praying for each other (James 5:16).  We will pray about different ministries connected to the prayer center, we will pray for prayer events, we will pray for our prayer missionaries, etc. ...let's see how does that translate into a church... confessing is same, praying for ministries would be sunday school, cadet/gem programs, catechism classes, bible studies, nursery, music, youth group, whatever you guys have going on, and then also maybe praying for para church ministries that your members are involved with like feeding homeless and poor, schools, supporting single moms, or whatever it might be.   You can also pray for denominational leaders (ie Board of Trustees, Executive Director, Home Missions Director and their staff) and issues, which we generally don't get to spend very much corporate prayer time on. 

and then just pray for the Holy Spirit to pour out through prayer...

I've had extended times of  prayer together from  2+ plus hours to 3 days, some were held at church, some were at a retreat facility.  I will say, most people, including most pastors, are not ready for 3 days for various reasons, but hopefully that day is coming to the crc =)

Steve, there are lots of options, and I think you get to pray into what God  wants it to look like for your church.    some questions:  What are the funds available for it?  How busy people are might limit it to an evening or an evening and part of the next day, but a prayer retreat is far better than meeting the Pres. of the US.  You would drop everything you have going on for that opportunity =), right?  We get to meet with this amazing God of the universe, our Creator,  the One Who loves us beyond our wildest imagination!   

Hope and pray you have a powerful and profound prayer retreat where you encounter God in fresh and beautiful ways!

I wish we did have some experience with this Tim...  I will pass this on to Alvin VG, if he has any insight for you, we are on a prayer board together, and our meeting is tomorrow...

Bless your heart Amanda, and welcome to the team... thank you for sharing a bit of how these concerns were put on your heart over the years...

praying for wisdom, compassion and a forehead of flint when needed, for you and all those who deal with an area that still too many in the church respond to with a willful blindness...

and as thankful as I am for the progress that has been made over the last 30 years... there is still much work to be done... 

be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. 

 

 

One of the biggest aspects that we can help families focus on, is simply praying together.  I'm finding the "family altar" has pretty much disappeared from our rhythms for the most part.  There are lots of reasons why...  so restoring the family altar - a time of sharing the word, worship and praying together as a family is a key piece for the family faith formation.  Praying together on a family level and on a congregation level, seems to be an area that has been under-emphasized in the reformed tradition, at least in our more recent history.

Cheryl Saks has written several helpful books on prayer to help restore praying together...   

http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-prayer-saturated-family/380261

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Prayer_Saturated_Church.html?id=9zj0AgAAQBAJ

The 2nd service could be re formatted in various ways, for those who don't want to prepare a 2nd message... I personally would love to see more time praying together... and as an alternative to a 2nd sermon, spend time to discuss and dig deeper into the passage that was preached on in the morning. Give everyone an opportunity to share how the Holy Spirit ministered to them in the morning service (or the previous week) from the music, the message and anything else that was meaningful to them.

I love I Cor 14 where EVERYONE has a word of encouragement/instruction, a hymn, scripture or revelation to share for the strengthening of the Church. Sadly, this gets lost in our current format.

ps.. if Jesus says it's worth His time to show up where 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name, why do we think we need more than that to make it worth our while. (recognizing He never leaves or forsakes us, but there is a different dynamic of His Presence when we connect with others in Jesus Name.)

Denise, I've been working on the 1 Timothy 2:12 verse that is often used by complementarians based on the 84 NIV (and a few other translations) to prohibit women in church leadership - I believe that particular verse is a HUGE hurdle for a lot of women to serve in leadership in the Church... I've heard a number of times of how "CLEAR" scripture is that it is only men that are to be elders/deacons/pastors... and it often leads back to this specific verse

As you probably know, the role of women in Church leadership has been anything but "clear"...  I did some research on this back in 2008, but put it on the back burner for various reasons... well, again for various reasons, it moved to the front burner, and over the last year and a half or so, I continued digging and researching the role of women again, going back to scripture, but this time, thanks to the increased information on the internet (and of course the Holy Spirit!!!) with the help of male and female theologians around the world, experts in Greek and Hebrew, and Bible websites that are amazing, I was astounded at what I discovered...

a context/lens for 1 Timothy that I've never heard/read shared in the CRC (or in any of my research back in 2008) is how Artemis was a HUGE factor in Ephesus... Interestingly, I found that it seems it is mostly in the last 10 years or so (thanks to the internet), that we have been able to more fully understand how Artemis was worshipped in Ephesus... Many of those who have already opened the door for women in office in the CRC moved on 25 years ago and stopped any further research as it wasn't necessary any more, since it was a done deal for them -however most of the information on Artemis was NOT available back then... and those who didn't agree that women should be in office are not going to look for ways that they might be wrong - they are fine with the status quo as scripture is "clear" and have no reason to question their position... that leaves a small group of those who are even pondering and researching the role of women in office these days...

Acts 19 talks about the riot the Apostle Paul caused in Ephesus due to so many converting to "the Way" from the cult of Artemis.  Ephesus/Artemis is also the context of 1 Timothy.  Paul, in 1 Tim, is addressing false teachings by certain people - men AND women (84 NIV limited it to "certain men"), and how a singular "woman" (possibly a new convert formerly involved in the cult of Artemis) is part of the problem promoting false teachings - that's why Paul is not "permitting" her to teach...  yet!  She needs to learn more about her new faith, and she needs to be encouraged to learn quietly (like everyone else who wants to learn) before she can teach others about the Way w/out confusing her new beliefs w/ the practices of cult worship!  Also, the women involved in the worship of Artemis were often LOUD! 

Whenever "epitrepo"/permit (1 Tim 2:12) is used in the NT, it is ALWAYS a case by case basis, never a universal command for ALL time!  Which sadly, is how it has been implemented over the centuries!

also, the non-biblical headings used in some translations are misleading (ie "instructions on worship" 84 NIV)... there has been no consensus on what Paul was addressing  in 1 Tim 2 - it has been assumed and represented that Paul is referring to the early church worship gatherings... what makes far more sense and fits far better, is this is a point by point corrective comparing the false teachings/worship of the cult of Artemis with the true teachings/worship of "the Way"/Christian beliefs... if you compare each aspect to the cult of Artemis, it lines up powerfully! including v15 re childbearing, which theologians have NOT known how to explain or what to do with that over the years and centuries!

I believe the context of Artemis needs to be tested and vetted and then shared... I have done my research and written a document going verse by verse to compare the correctives to how Artemis of the Ephesians was worshipped. I'm convinced this is the lens that we need to look at this passage with, and that has not been the case as far as I can tell...  I believe getting a better understanding of the 1 Tim 2 passage will help women in the CRC and beyond!

As part of the Kingdom Church, the CRC can encourage praying for God's heart for Israel, and for the nations.  His Word encourages us to pray for the peace of Israel and Jerusalem... I understand there are many complexities to the understanding of "Israel", but praying for "Israel" and the salvation of "Israel" is a scriptural principle, even if our understanding of "Israel" varies. God's heart for Israel includes that "Israel" will be a light for the nations (Is 60) and to welcome the strangers and aliens within their gates. That God calls Himself "the Holy One of Israel" is significant.  God's heart is for "Israel" to fulfill it's God given calling, and at this point, however one understands "Israel", "Israel" (Jewish people/children of Abraham (natural branches), Gentile believers - Abraham's adopted children (wild branches) the physical promised land of Israel, the modern nation of Israel, and/or the Church), it is falling short and from my experience and perspective, our prayers on behalf of "Israel" have fallen short.

One of the beautiful collaborations of unity happening in Israel, is Messianic Jews, Christians and Palestinian believers coming together to worship Yeshua! here is the first album representing these collaborative efforts and how the Holy Spirit is giving new songs to these worshippers in Jerusalem!  pray for an increase of this unity and worship... https://dorhaba.com/en/voice-of-one-calling/

another ministry that is bringing unity is Seeds of Hope, uniting Jewish and Arabic/Palestinian children in schools so they become friends growing up, instead of enemies!  

https://seedsofhope.org; I have had the privilege of meeting Tass and hearing his testimony, several times.

http://www.jewishroots.net/library/testimonials/tass-saada-testimony.html

 

 

thank you all for "speaking" up and adding your voice to this important conversation about power and it's use, misuse and abuse! I'm very thankful to see more and more voices helping increase awareness and encourage action on behalf of the many who have suffered injustices due to abuses of power, to help limit further abuses as much as possible in the future... and to help others respond better when abuses happen and are shared with them...

it takes a village to cover up, and it takes a village to help bring healing and protection... I hope and pray the era of silencing and covering up of these abuses of power is now ending.. and we are moving into a new era that people will speak up and seek justice on behalf of those who have been harmed so that others may flourish and thrive and  live the abundant life we have in Christ Jesus!  not saying all abuse will end, but that we will respond much better when we become aware of it going on... it's time for the silent treatment regarding abuses to end (and those who encourage this silent treatment regarding abuse know who you are)... and that response of silence is well on it's way to no longer be allowed as an acceptable response because it not only abdicates justice, it also obstructs justice... so thank you for being a part of ending the silent treatment regarding abuses of power so healing and justice can move forward...

 

 

I am very very thankful for this discussion... it's been a long time coming in the CRC! Mr. Ed Fredericks personally brought an overture to Synod back in 2011ish regarding (the theology of) Israel and IMO, the response of Synod was pretty lame... I hope and pray Synod does better this time... I had the privilege of connecting with and meeting Ed when I was in MI a number of years ago and hear his heart behind his overture...

and I will warn you in advance this is a long response, so read and ponder and process as you have time and space... 

I am thankful that Martin did pursue submitting this, even without the support of classis, and even though I personally am not in agreement with the CRC's strong support of Palestine often at the expense of Israel (not saying I agree with what Israel is doing in a number of ways, recognizing their is injustice on both sides)... I recognize there are many complex dynamics and only God knows the plans He has for "Israel" and the descendants of Ishmael... 

I understand the overture journey a bit, and I had a number of leaders (strongly) advise me not to take an overture regarding abuse of power, on my own to Synod last year. I prayed about it and, to me, it became clear to take it forward and this was confirmed over and over...  I know a little bit of Martin's journey that he shared with me, and I believe God will use this opportunity for the good of His Kingdom... the discussion here is already a wonderful response to this very complex issue, and again, I personally am very thankful it's on the table for Synod... for me, it is an answer to prayer that I've been asking God about for a number of years... and am now praying for Synod to encourage prayer on behalf of Israel and the middle east, whatever our eschatology might be (which there are so many variations, and God only knows for sure)! I believe practical action will flow out of our prayers... whatever that might look like! (Romans 15:27 is one practical way that scripture says is our duty as believing Gentiles) 

Personally, my biggest hope for Synod is that they will intentionally encourage prayer in the CRC on behalf of God's heart for Israel based on scripture, again, regardless of CRC eschatology... it's always a good idea to pray scripture, it honors God and His heart for His people! He knows what He intended through these Scriptures, whatever He has in His mind regarding "Israel", as the calling and role of "Israel" is beyond our knowledge and understanding for the most part - what's literal, what's figurative, what's spiritual, what's end times, what's eternal, how does the descendants of Ishmael fit in, and Israel's relationships with all the other nations that are part of Jesus' inheritance (Ps 2), etc...

My practical position is: I trust God and His Word, I'm open to whatever He wants to do with "Israel", I will be obedient and pray on their behalf and be discerning of the times and what is going on with Israel, and what I'm aware of is pretty amazing, but it's not in the news, it's primarily by word of mouth of people who have been ministering there and come to share locally, and send some support to help Messianic Jews in Israel through a friend who has connections there...  at this point, ironically, I'm mostly in agreement with John MacArthur's position/understanding on Israel and end times... that's a discussion on it's own...

as believers, God wants (commands?) us to pray on Israel's behalf (again, restating from an earlier post, whatever God's heart is for "Israel" as wild (Gentiles) and natural (Jews) branches as the Church, as His chosen people, as the land, and as a modern state... FYI some logistics: there are an estimated 15M Jews in the world: 7M in Israel, 7M in NY, and the rest scattered... )

I believe scripture gives the Kingdom Church a universal call to pray for Israel and their salvation, because we have salvation because of their hardness of heart, their transgressions... Romans 11:11-29...  and that gives us a responsibility to pray for their salvation (Romans 10:1), however God works through our prayers, which is mostly mystery, but it is a Biblical command to pray (I Thess 5:17; pray w/out ceasing). Whatever we ask for in Jesus' Name will be given for the Father's glory... not saying I understand, but when Jesus repeats this numerous times before His death on the cross, we know it's important (John 14:13-14; 15:7-8,16; 16:23-24,26)!

Here are some biblical prayers we can hopefully all start praying in one accord today! we don't have to wait for synod or anyone to vote and adopt it... I love Tass Saada's (former PLO under Arafat) testimony, of how the day after he rec'd Jesus Christ as Savior, the Spirit put a burning compelling unction on his heart to pray for the Jews... it had to be the Spirit, because Tass hated the Jews, he had been one of Arafat's PLO snipers that had been killing the Jews... https://www.amazon.com/Once-Arafat-Man-Story-Sniper/dp/1414334443

So please consider joining me in praying for:

Blessings for Israel (Genesis 12:3; https://biblehub.com/genesis/12-3.htm) and I believe this will also bring blessing to the "strangers and aliens within their gates", including Palestinan believers and non-believers... and bring...

Collaboration (Isaiah 19:23-25) which is starting to happen from testimonies of those who I've connections with who minister in Egypt, Syria and Israel...

Salvation (Romans 10:1; Isaiah 62) I'm aware of a number of Jews who are secret believers, that are waiting for God's timing to make it public... please pray for them, and others to follow... the song I think of is "o come o come Immanuel, and ransom captive Israel... rejoice, rejoice, Immanuel shall come to thee O Israel"...  this song was part of the prelude at our Good Friday service (which was in alignment with Passover this year), and when I heard it I started praying for these secret believers, and sensed the power of the Holy Spirit as I prayed... I shared it with several others, they also felt the power of the Holy Spirit... God is doing something powerful with the salvation of Jews... but I believe He is asking us to partner with Him in prayer regarding this (1 Cor 3:9)... 

Fulfill their God given calling (Isaiah 58:6-12; 60; Zech 8; and many many more), bringing the gospel, bringing justice, of doing what's right, which at some point, will be in collaboration with, as part of, the Kingdom Church)

To do justice (Micah 6:8)! this will include how they treat other refugees, including Palestinian/Arab refugees... 

To welcome the strangers and aliens within their gates (various scriptures)... 

Peace of Israel and Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6;  https://biblehub.com/psalms/122-6.htm; Psalm 125:5; Psalm 128:6)

Reconciliation through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Genesis 25:9; https://biblehub.com/genesis/25-9.htm; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21)

Unity (Psalm 133:1)

these are just a few of the scriptural aspects we can pray for Israel, along with anything else the Spirit might put on our hearts! The prayer center I serve with as a board member has a weekly prayer time for Israel... I encourage everyone to consider committing to something like this... whether it's your personal prayer time, and/or with others that have a strong passion for God's Kingdom to come and His will to be done as He intends for Israel and the middle east, whatever that might look like!

For His Kingdom, for His glory!