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haha... you can always challenge the congregation to double their giving!!  really!  on 1.1.11 we were so challenged at a non crc worship gathering, and after the first gasp for air, like "Really LORD? cash flow already sucks!".  But we had been praying into God's economy and know that giving is a significant key to His economy, and so my husband and I prayed about it, and the LORD gave us a strategic plan of increasing our giving 1% per month, so it wasn't quite such a shock all at once.  Just a week ago, I was making some year end up adjustments for his business and happened to look at our net income for the year, and it was up SIGNIFICANTLY!  and he's in construction, so we know the economy hasn't changed that much.  and that's just one of the blessings we've experienced!!

What a beautiful family  =) and testimony..  (and name!!) .  Praise God...thank you so much for sharing...   isn't it crazy how the Word becomes much more living and active when you're listening to Him? 

So who do you get to "listen" and pray with that have so much experience?    That is awesome... would love to hear more about your journey.  We are in training...  Really excited about the appointment of Moses Chung as director of Home missions...a Spirit led man of prayer...he just spent 3 years in S Korea in "the" praying church...  if you have a few minutes (about 18- I know how that can be with little ones=) and haven't already done so... watch his "welcome" speech from synod, he so resonated with my heart for prayer, especially about 12-13 minutes in... 

the CRC staff separated his speech out so you can watch it, but you might want to watch the intro as well, which you will have to go to Tues pm1 for...

http://www.crcna.org/pages/synod_webcast_archive.cfm 

 

bless your heart sister... with (spiritual) ears and eyes wide open

Bev Sterk on July 19, 2011

In reply to by anonymous_stub (not verified)

Hey Rich... welcome... good to see you on here... if you don't remember, I met you a prayer summit @ Cedar Springs a few years back...  great thoughts and insight... thx. for sharing...  

Bless your heart Amanda, and welcome to the team... thank you for sharing a bit of how these concerns were put on your heart over the years...

praying for wisdom, compassion and a forehead of flint when needed, for you and all those who deal with an area that still too many in the church respond to with a willful blindness...

and as thankful as I am for the progress that has been made over the last 30 years... there is still much work to be done... 

be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. 

 

 

One of the biggest aspects that we can help families focus on, is simply praying together.  I'm finding the "family altar" has pretty much disappeared from our rhythms for the most part.  There are lots of reasons why...  so restoring the family altar - a time of sharing the word, worship and praying together as a family is a key piece for the family faith formation.  Praying together on a family level and on a congregation level, seems to be an area that has been under-emphasized in the reformed tradition, at least in our more recent history.

Cheryl Saks has written several helpful books on prayer to help restore praying together...   

http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-prayer-saturated-family/380261

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Prayer_Saturated_Church.html?id=9zj0AgAAQBAJ

The 2nd service could be re formatted in various ways, for those who don't want to prepare a 2nd message... I personally would love to see more time praying together... and as an alternative to a 2nd sermon, spend time to discuss and dig deeper into the passage that was preached on in the morning. Give everyone an opportunity to share how the Holy Spirit ministered to them in the morning service (or the previous week) from the music, the message and anything else that was meaningful to them.

I love I Cor 14 where EVERYONE has a word of encouragement/instruction, a hymn, scripture or revelation to share for the strengthening of the Church. Sadly, this gets lost in our current format.

ps.. if Jesus says it's worth His time to show up where 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name, why do we think we need more than that to make it worth our while. (recognizing He never leaves or forsakes us, but there is a different dynamic of His Presence when we connect with others in Jesus Name.)

Denise, I've been working on the 1 Timothy 2:12 verse that is often used by complementarians based on the 84 NIV (and a few other translations) to prohibit women in church leadership - I believe that particular verse is a HUGE hurdle for a lot of women to serve in leadership in the Church... I've heard a number of times of how "CLEAR" scripture is that it is only men that are to be elders/deacons/pastors... and it often leads back to this specific verse

As you probably know, the role of women in Church leadership has been anything but "clear"...  I did some research on this back in 2008, but put it on the back burner for various reasons... well, again for various reasons, it moved to the front burner, and over the last year and a half or so, I continued digging and researching the role of women again, going back to scripture, but this time, thanks to the increased information on the internet (and of course the Holy Spirit!!!) with the help of male and female theologians around the world, experts in Greek and Hebrew, and Bible websites that are amazing, I was astounded at what I discovered...

a context/lens for 1 Timothy that I've never heard/read shared in the CRC (or in any of my research back in 2008) is how Artemis was a HUGE factor in Ephesus... Interestingly, I found that it seems it is mostly in the last 10 years or so (thanks to the internet), that we have been able to more fully understand how Artemis was worshipped in Ephesus... Many of those who have already opened the door for women in office in the CRC moved on 25 years ago and stopped any further research as it wasn't necessary any more, since it was a done deal for them -however most of the information on Artemis was NOT available back then... and those who didn't agree that women should be in office are not going to look for ways that they might be wrong - they are fine with the status quo as scripture is "clear" and have no reason to question their position... that leaves a small group of those who are even pondering and researching the role of women in office these days...

Acts 19 talks about the riot the Apostle Paul caused in Ephesus due to so many converting to "the Way" from the cult of Artemis.  Ephesus/Artemis is also the context of 1 Timothy.  Paul, in 1 Tim, is addressing false teachings by certain people - men AND women (84 NIV limited it to "certain men"), and how a singular "woman" (possibly a new convert formerly involved in the cult of Artemis) is part of the problem promoting false teachings - that's why Paul is not "permitting" her to teach...  yet!  She needs to learn more about her new faith, and she needs to be encouraged to learn quietly (like everyone else who wants to learn) before she can teach others about the Way w/out confusing her new beliefs w/ the practices of cult worship!  Also, the women involved in the worship of Artemis were often LOUD! 

Whenever "epitrepo"/permit (1 Tim 2:12) is used in the NT, it is ALWAYS a case by case basis, never a universal command for ALL time!  Which sadly, is how it has been implemented over the centuries!

also, the non-biblical headings used in some translations are misleading (ie "instructions on worship" 84 NIV)... there has been no consensus on what Paul was addressing  in 1 Tim 2 - it has been assumed and represented that Paul is referring to the early church worship gatherings... what makes far more sense and fits far better, is this is a point by point corrective comparing the false teachings/worship of the cult of Artemis with the true teachings/worship of "the Way"/Christian beliefs... if you compare each aspect to the cult of Artemis, it lines up powerfully! including v15 re childbearing, which theologians have NOT known how to explain or what to do with that over the years and centuries!

I believe the context of Artemis needs to be tested and vetted and then shared... I have done my research and written a document going verse by verse to compare the correctives to how Artemis of the Ephesians was worshipped. I'm convinced this is the lens that we need to look at this passage with, and that has not been the case as far as I can tell...  I believe getting a better understanding of the 1 Tim 2 passage will help women in the CRC and beyond!

I've done a bit more research on 1 Tim 2:12 and found out that the meaning of authentein in 1 Tim 2:12 has morphed over the ages since Paul's time...  In Paul's time from 200BC to 300AD, authentein was associated with a violent and negative authority... then in the 400s AD when Jerome translated the Greek into Latin, he ignored the violent aspect and toned down the authority to "domineering authority" so still negative, but we lost the violent nuance... then in the 1500s AD when Erasmus did his translation, he toned authentein even more and took out the negative aspect completely, and authentein became "exercise authority"... and modern translations have now simply translated it as "authority"... 

As part of the Kingdom Church, the CRC can encourage praying for God's heart for Israel, and for the nations.  His Word encourages us to pray for the peace of Israel and Jerusalem... I understand there are many complexities to the understanding of "Israel", but praying for "Israel" and the salvation of "Israel" is a scriptural principle, even if our understanding of "Israel" varies. God's heart for Israel includes that "Israel" will be a light for the nations (Is 60) and to welcome the strangers and aliens within their gates. That God calls Himself "the Holy One of Israel" is significant.  God's heart is for "Israel" to fulfill it's God given calling, and at this point, however one understands "Israel", "Israel" (Jewish people/children of Abraham (natural branches), Gentile believers - Abraham's adopted children (wild branches) the physical promised land of Israel, the modern nation of Israel, and/or the Church), it is falling short and from my experience and perspective, our prayers on behalf of "Israel" have fallen short.

One of the beautiful collaborations of unity happening in Israel, is Messianic Jews, Christians and Palestinian believers coming together to worship Yeshua! here is the first album representing these collaborative efforts and how the Holy Spirit is giving new songs to these worshippers in Jerusalem!  pray for an increase of this unity and worship... https://dorhaba.com/en/voice-of-one-calling/

another ministry that is bringing unity is Seeds of Hope, uniting Jewish and Arabic/Palestinian children in schools so they become friends growing up, instead of enemies!  

https://seedsofhope.org; I have had the privilege of meeting Tass and hearing his testimony, several times.

http://www.jewishroots.net/library/testimonials/tass-saada-testimony.html

 

 

thank you all for "speaking" up and adding your voice to this important conversation about power and it's use, misuse and abuse! I'm very thankful to see more and more voices helping increase awareness and encourage action on behalf of the many who have suffered injustices due to abuses of power, to help limit further abuses as much as possible in the future... and to help others respond better when abuses happen and are shared with them...

it takes a village to cover up, and it takes a village to help bring healing and protection... I hope and pray the era of silencing and covering up of these abuses of power is now ending.. and we are moving into a new era that people will speak up and seek justice on behalf of those who have been harmed so that others may flourish and thrive and  live the abundant life we have in Christ Jesus!  not saying all abuse will end, but that we will respond much better when we become aware of it going on... it's time for the silent treatment regarding abuses to end (and those who encourage this silent treatment regarding abuse know who you are)... and that response of silence is well on it's way to no longer be allowed as an acceptable response because it not only abdicates justice, it also obstructs justice... so thank you for being a part of ending the silent treatment regarding abuses of power so healing and justice can move forward...

 

 

I am very very thankful for this discussion... it's been a long time coming in the CRC! Mr. Ed Fredericks personally brought an overture to Synod back in 2011ish regarding (the theology of) Israel and IMO, the response of Synod was pretty lame... I hope and pray Synod does better this time... I had the privilege of connecting with and meeting Ed when I was in MI a number of years ago and hear his heart behind his overture...

and I will warn you in advance this is a long response, so read and ponder and process as you have time and space... 

I am thankful that Martin did pursue submitting this, even without the support of classis, and even though I personally am not in agreement with the CRC's strong support of Palestine often at the expense of Israel (not saying I agree with what Israel is doing in a number of ways, recognizing their is injustice on both sides)... I recognize there are many complex dynamics and only God knows the plans He has for "Israel" and the descendants of Ishmael... 

I understand the overture journey a bit, and I had a number of leaders (strongly) advise me not to take an overture regarding abuse of power, on my own to Synod last year. I prayed about it and, to me, it became clear to take it forward and this was confirmed over and over...  I know a little bit of Martin's journey that he shared with me, and I believe God will use this opportunity for the good of His Kingdom... the discussion here is already a wonderful response to this very complex issue, and again, I personally am very thankful it's on the table for Synod... for me, it is an answer to prayer that I've been asking God about for a number of years... and am now praying for Synod to encourage prayer on behalf of Israel and the middle east, whatever our eschatology might be (which there are so many variations, and God only knows for sure)! I believe practical action will flow out of our prayers... whatever that might look like! (Romans 15:27 is one practical way that scripture says is our duty as believing Gentiles) 

Personally, my biggest hope for Synod is that they will intentionally encourage prayer in the CRC on behalf of God's heart for Israel based on scripture, again, regardless of CRC eschatology... it's always a good idea to pray scripture, it honors God and His heart for His people! He knows what He intended through these Scriptures, whatever He has in His mind regarding "Israel", as the calling and role of "Israel" is beyond our knowledge and understanding for the most part - what's literal, what's figurative, what's spiritual, what's end times, what's eternal, how does the descendants of Ishmael fit in, and Israel's relationships with all the other nations that are part of Jesus' inheritance (Ps 2), etc...

My practical position is: I trust God and His Word, I'm open to whatever He wants to do with "Israel", I will be obedient and pray on their behalf and be discerning of the times and what is going on with Israel, and what I'm aware of is pretty amazing, but it's not in the news, it's primarily by word of mouth of people who have been ministering there and come to share locally, and send some support to help Messianic Jews in Israel through a friend who has connections there...  at this point, ironically, I'm mostly in agreement with John MacArthur's position/understanding on Israel and end times... that's a discussion on it's own...

as believers, God wants (commands?) us to pray on Israel's behalf (again, restating from an earlier post, whatever God's heart is for "Israel" as wild (Gentiles) and natural (Jews) branches as the Church, as His chosen people, as the land, and as a modern state... FYI some logistics: there are an estimated 15M Jews in the world: 7M in Israel, 7M in NY, and the rest scattered... )

I believe scripture gives the Kingdom Church a universal call to pray for Israel and their salvation, because we have salvation because of their hardness of heart, their transgressions... Romans 11:11-29...  and that gives us a responsibility to pray for their salvation (Romans 10:1), however God works through our prayers, which is mostly mystery, but it is a Biblical command to pray (I Thess 5:17; pray w/out ceasing). Whatever we ask for in Jesus' Name will be given for the Father's glory... not saying I understand, but when Jesus repeats this numerous times before His death on the cross, we know it's important (John 14:13-14; 15:7-8,16; 16:23-24,26)!

Here are some biblical prayers we can hopefully all start praying in one accord today! we don't have to wait for synod or anyone to vote and adopt it... I love Tass Saada's (former PLO under Arafat) testimony, of how the day after he rec'd Jesus Christ as Savior, the Spirit put a burning compelling unction on his heart to pray for the Jews... it had to be the Spirit, because Tass hated the Jews, he had been one of Arafat's PLO snipers that had been killing the Jews... https://www.amazon.com/Once-Arafat-Man-Story-Sniper/dp/1414334443

So please consider joining me in praying for:

Blessings for Israel (Genesis 12:3; https://biblehub.com/genesis/12-3.htm) and I believe this will also bring blessing to the "strangers and aliens within their gates", including Palestinan believers and non-believers... and bring...

Collaboration (Isaiah 19:23-25) which is starting to happen from testimonies of those who I've connections with who minister in Egypt, Syria and Israel...

Salvation (Romans 10:1; Isaiah 62) I'm aware of a number of Jews who are secret believers, that are waiting for God's timing to make it public... please pray for them, and others to follow... the song I think of is "o come o come Immanuel, and ransom captive Israel... rejoice, rejoice, Immanuel shall come to thee O Israel"...  this song was part of the prelude at our Good Friday service (which was in alignment with Passover this year), and when I heard it I started praying for these secret believers, and sensed the power of the Holy Spirit as I prayed... I shared it with several others, they also felt the power of the Holy Spirit... God is doing something powerful with the salvation of Jews... but I believe He is asking us to partner with Him in prayer regarding this (1 Cor 3:9)... 

Fulfill their God given calling (Isaiah 58:6-12; 60; Zech 8; and many many more), bringing the gospel, bringing justice, of doing what's right, which at some point, will be in collaboration with, as part of, the Kingdom Church)

To do justice (Micah 6:8)! this will include how they treat other refugees, including Palestinian/Arab refugees... 

To welcome the strangers and aliens within their gates (various scriptures)... 

Peace of Israel and Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6;  https://biblehub.com/psalms/122-6.htm; Psalm 125:5; Psalm 128:6)

Reconciliation through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Genesis 25:9; https://biblehub.com/genesis/25-9.htm; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21)

Unity (Psalm 133:1)

these are just a few of the scriptural aspects we can pray for Israel, along with anything else the Spirit might put on our hearts! The prayer center I serve with as a board member has a weekly prayer time for Israel... I encourage everyone to consider committing to something like this... whether it's your personal prayer time, and/or with others that have a strong passion for God's Kingdom to come and His will to be done as He intends for Israel and the middle east, whatever that might look like!

For His Kingdom, for His glory!

 

 

 

 

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