Harry Boessenkool

I listen to podcasts from West end CRC and the PKN church in Amersfoort Holland. I am bi-lingual so get first hand information from two countries. These are supplemented by attendance at out local church. I usually listen to them if the second service has a topic that I am less interested in. My preference is  to listen only to the sermon as the music is often hard to hear and singing is not always clear. West end only has the sermon on the podcast while PKN does the whole service.

The whole issue of using todays media to listen to ideas buy things is being highly under rated by leaders in churches and industry.

A recent article by Gayla Postma in the Banner mentions the recommendation to amalgamate  Home Missions and World Missions but there was no mention of the BTGMI ministry which is on the forefront of media like podcasts and internet. The article mentions changes in the world necessitate this amalgamation  I think the leadership of the church (in this case Synod) had better have a very sober look at what is being suggested here by insiders of the organization. I would like some delay in this major change as the pain to get it done will be much worse than the benefits. Other than do I we say there were no tangible benefits listed. To have quadruple bosses (2 in USA and 2 in Canada running this amalgamated ministry looks like an impossible situation to me.

Home Missions and BTGMI should get together and make sure all of our churches are set up professionally with podcasts that meet their market needs. That would be a great support to congregations rather than have Burlington and GR spend 2-5 years getting the huge ministry up and running.

The fact that the world is coming to North America does not for that reason warrant joining World and Home Missions. I suggest keeping the mission separate so we can focus on the need of new comers (immigrants, refugees etc.). The focus on new comers needs to be organized by local congregations and supported by a Home Missions organization that understands all the legal nuances of new arrivals. Just look at what is happening in Europe with the surge in "boat people". That does not require a foreign missions approach but a whole new way of integrating people in their new country.

That also has nothing to do with sending missionaries and working with Christian partners overseas. The skill sets and needs are totally different. One benefit I can see, in the long haul, is that the pool of potential missionaries TO foreign countries will expand significantly.

I come from an immigrant background (in fact I came twice to Canada, once as a child and immigrated on my own as an adult). We needed a community to join, support of those who could teach us English and assistance to adapt to the new land. Nothing has changed except that it is much more difficult to integrate the much greater diversity.

I respectfully disagree with Dr. Timmermans that the integration of WM and HM is needed. The sheer size of the joint organization would make it unresponsive to the local congregations in North America and would lose total touch with our missionaries and partners overseas.

Our product (mission) is spreading the Gospel. The means to do that locally and internationally need to be organized separately.

Thanks for sharing this letter. The corporate church has always recognized the work of Deacons. The local church, and I am willing to venture in 100% of the CRCNA congregations, are in someway engaged.  World Renew is the CRCNA's  diaconate.  The work they do and the support from the community and governments is significant.   This is one of the areas of the church that does NOT need fixing. Including Deacons as official delegates to synod and add that to the complexity of that oversight body is not needed.

The funds to run World Renew, or for that matter the Diaconates of local churches, are not an issue. Deacons also have regional Diaconal Ministries which work well.

Thanks to Mr. Schoonekamp and the Deacons that have gone before him, after him and are now serving, have done an excellent job in proclaiming the message of Jesus in the work they do both locally and via World Renew (and many other organizations). 

"Your view of Islam will affect your attitude to Muslims. Your attitude will, in turn influence your approach to Christian-Muslim interaction, and that approach will affect the ultimate outcome of your presence as a witness among Muslims."

Let's address this to the two main factions:

Your view of Sunni Muslim will affect your attitude to Shia Muslim. Your attitude will, in turn influence your approach to Sunni-Shia interaction and that approach will affect the ultimate outcome of your presence as witness among ourselves.

Would the template of interaction between Catholics and Protestants be something that could work in the Muslim world?

They need to find a solution to the violence among themselves.

Here is the summary of the Synod's Agenda. Look how neatly all the ministries of the CRC HO Departments & Ministries have been pigeonholed into the five streams. The CRC Extension Fund in Canada, which is 3 times large than the US (Loan Fund) one, is not even mentioned anywhere.

Faith Formation
Calvin College
Discipleship and Faith Formation Ministries
Servant Leadership
Chaplaincy and Care Ministry
Christian Reformed Church Loan Fund, Inc., U.S.
Pastor-Church Relations 
Pensions and Insurance
Safe Church Ministry
Global Missions
Christian Reformed Home Missions
Christian Reformed World Missions
Loving Mercy and Doing Justice
Committee for Contact with the Government
Disability Concerns
Race Relations
Social Justice and Hunger Action
Urban Aboriginal Ministries
World Renew
Gospel Proclamation and Worship
Back to God Ministries International
Calvin Theological Seminary 
Worship Ministries

The order is very telling. Gospel proclamation is last. With a 557 page Agenda it will be an interesting Synod. Why Deacons would even want to participate is a question for me. They have their hands full at the local church level.

I appreciate Norman and Terry's comments. The church made an interesting change when it broadened the skill sets for the ED of the Denomination. Now when you look at the skill sets of those who are nominated to the BOT and the Boards of the various ministries, the "quota's"  for Ministers and Lay people come into play.The "Lay" people for that do not have to be Elders or Deacons but certainly can be. Looking at skill sets has became a factor on one of the Boards I served on and that is good.

If that review of skill sets could be applied to those selected to go to Synod, the distinction between Elders and Deacons could largely fall away. Now of course you need a skill set evaluation at the congregational level if you want to be consistent. But here is where the problem comes in. Pastors on the payroll can always (I hope) get time off for Synod/ Classis. But for lay people this is more problematic. Not only they have to devote time to local work in the role of Elder or Deacon but they can also be delegated to Classis and Synod.

Despite all of the new technology, and how it was supposed to help us, it has probably done the opposite. It is harder than ever to "get away" from the job. In our church polity we have to rely on the wisdom of church Councils and Classis to select the most capable (and I hope with appropriate skill sets) people as delegates to the Ministry Boards and to Synod.

I will make (repeat) another bold suggestion. Could the church not take Calvin College out of its governance structure and also find a totally new way to govern World Renew (e.g. give that role to the Deacons)?

• In quotes "Historically, the practice of church visiting is for the purpose of “strengthening” churches, not ruling or
• policing them. Section II provides text from Church Order article 42 specifying practices and purpose.
• There is a strong emphasis on accountability while avoiding hierarchy. Together we hold each other
• accountable, but no lording it over each other. The aspects of church visiting are: ascertain (data
• gathering); admonish (when necessary); advise (upon request); and hold accountable (church visitors
• report to classis). It is up to classis to appoint church visitors who are experienced and competent in the
• task."

No wonder church visiting is no longer effective. If we keep doing the same thing (note the word historically!!) and expect better out comes, we better abolish this practice. I have reread the document that covers church visiting. It is all complicated and dated language and way too much of it. No two visitors could cover things that are listed.  We need a much more practical approach.

1) Interview every person that is being paid be the church (each less than 1 hour).  2) Get all statistical information re membership either from the church of get it from the annual Year Book and 3 years of financial information. 3) Ask for a list of donors (without names) and the annual contribution per donor for the same 3 years.

From those three pieces of information a very good picture of the local church and its issues will become obvious. Two experienced church visitors will be able to make up a report that would be very helpful and/or pose questions that would motivate the church leaders to look at their own situation in a different way.

Your promise to your wife would be like my promise to our Pastor to do next week's sermon!  You probably thought for years that your wife's shopping was just fun. NO, it is hard work and probably double so on a Pastor's salary. In the end she turned out to be the guide you needed. You are not alone in that.

Hi Steve,

This is an interesting topic and I urge you on to dig deeper into this subject. For immediate feedback here is our church's result:

Ministry Shares /Classis  18%
Salaries                            35%
Local Ministries                17%
Property/Adm.                  12%
World Renew                     5%
Deacons                            4%
Church's own foreign         8%
                                       100%

To get to the total foreign content you need to add WR, WM share of Ministry Shares and the 8% we spend directly what we would call Foreign Missions. About 50%/60% of the amount goes to the Airline companies to get our folks to the local mission field.

I have asked this question before. How much does CRCNA HO (Burlington/Grand Rapids/Chicago) spend on travel in one year by employees of CRCNA who are stationed in these three location (and in Canada and USA) but travel to foreign mission and foreign aid sites?  If you then add to that the cost of transporting Missionaries on their bi-annual or tri-annual leave to their home countries we would get a the real costs of "doing" foreign missions.

Also with the influx of some 1.2 million people per year into North America from all over the world, maybe we should focus "World Missions" on those entering North America! That then becomes local evangelism or Home Missions.

As a general principle the CRCNA should  get to a position of having only indigenous people as missionaries on the ground in foreign fields (immigrants to NA who would be willing to return to their own country would of course qualify).

I believe many governments are now requiring immigrants to be proficient in English (or French for Quebec or other languages for other countries) in order to qualify to enter the country. The same rule should apply to "our" missionaries going to foreign countries.

Naji, I appreciate that Sisi may be a good man. I think you miss-spelled a word .... "a pious Muslim seeking to know and serve God" should have read.... '"a pious Muslim seeking to know and serve Allah". I think there is a difference.  As far as I understand, Muslims do not equate Jesus as being God. Until that changes you should maybe use the right word.

A picture is worth a 1,000 words. Classis with the percentage of churches under 100 members. I stopped at 33% so could get at least one Canadian Classis in there. Draw your own conclusion to what this means for costs.  Room for what Norm suggests?

In total there are 324 churches with under 100 members = 30% of the churches in the CRCNA.

Country Classis            #churches   <100mem       %
USA      Pacific Hanmi               50               43        86%
USA      Southeast US               22               15        68%
USA      Yellowstone                  11                 7        64%
USA      Columbia                       20               12       60%
USA      Red Mesa                      20               12       60%
USA      Greater Los Angeles     37               21       57%
USA      Hackensack                   34               19      56%
USA      Lake Erie                       23               12       52%
USA      California South             28               14       50%
USA      Arizona                          10                 5       50%
USA      Pacific Northwest           45               20      44%
USA     Central California            33               13      39%
USA     Atlantic North East          21                 8      38%
USA     Northern Illinois               22                 8      36%