Here is one of hundreds of reasons I have opposing people's opinion that people who identify themselves as homosexuals do not belong in the CRCNA. The following sentence illustrates it very well:
"How can same-sex marriage, for example, be a God-glorifying area for sexual expressionand an ongoing act of rebellion against God’s Moral Law? It can’t be both.
People confuse sexual expression as the same as a loving expression. They are two different expressions! I Love my neighbour and have loving expressions with them but I do not have sexual expressions with them.
Get your head into that thinking mode and you might understand that all this arguing and defamation is based on the wrong premise.
Quote, all you want from scripture - what you will find is Loving one another is pleasing to God. The sexual acts are between God and those committing any act of sexual activity that is not pleasing to God whether it is same sex or not - if the sexual act is an act of Love, would that not please God? Yes, it would. Yet, God is not concerned with the rules man makes up, He is only concerned with his Laws the 10 and to clarify it further are the two that Jesus said to the Rabbis and Pharisees who tried to trick him. That's it no more, no less pleases God when we obey them.
Douglas, I can not agree more with your position! As far as I am concerned the church and the leadership of the church have taken a very heavy handed approach it is "Our way way or the highway" I do not feel welcomed in a CRA church. For transparency if you want to pigeon hole people or put people into a nice comfy box. I am straight, married, two children (adults now). There I fit into one of Synod's neat little boxes. Yet I do listen, I listen to the people crying because the bulliness of Synod decisions and directions have hurt God's children. The church might as well restart conversion therapy (which is outlawed by both the US and Canada's Psychology Societies on human sexuality.) There are people in the church that want to have the discussion about who are God's Children? Not how do we punish some people we aren't comfortable with.
I have had the replies on other posts - we discerned, we talked at great lengths on the topic, we prayed, we read the Holy Bible (Old Testament) and the Apostles positions on homosexuality - but did you read and listen to what Jesus says about homosexuality? Because if you did you would find he does not talk about it at all - nope not once. People say well he was a wedding between a man and a woman there's your proof - no you have missed the entire meaning of that lesson - it had nothing to do with a wedding it was all about Jesus' first miracle turning the water into wine, and Mary his mother knew who her son was (she told the servants do what he tells you).
I know the responses I will receive - you weren't there, you don't know what was said and what was done. "you don't know what you are talking about" None of those statements are about listening they are all statements to bully someone into a corner and to send them out the door.
Douglas; I am in agreement with your statements and suggestions. There are others suffering the ongoing superiority complex that has invaded the church. to use the quote "You are either with us or against us" and if you are against us we don't want you. That sounds like a clique, not a church. I find your statement the "prayer room" has been moved to the stage of Synod." classic we are higher then you and therefore better then you or we know more then you so listen to us. I do not buy the excuse that putting people on stage so others can see them as a valid excuse especially in this day of video transmissions.
I vividly remember the 1980s/90s when people with AIDS were dying, dying a horrible death and church leaders and church members walked away, or called it a plague sent by God and many other horrible things. I lost many dear friends to AIDS / HIV. It was horrible to watch someone die while the Christian leaders refused to lead in comforting those who were dying.
Your interpretations of the scriptures are very interesting and I have called out a couple of them before, yet I think you did a better job at coordinating the scriptures and bring them together as a whole and not as simple snippets that are used by those who are not ready to deep divide into the Bible and its teachings. You are also correct there are other things we need to look at besides just the Holy Bible.
I guess I am in the 1/3 - but I shall not be silenced. I didn't accept bullies in grade school, I certainly do not accept them at age 63!
Ronald, thank you for your respectful response, dialogue is important. I do have a few comments to your response, but before going to those, I agree we keep talking and talking and talking without a true definitive answer, especially when we change people at Synod every year! When this happens we call that the guinea pig circus wheel spinning around and around. I have been a mediator inside and outside of the church and that phrase has been used by many mediators to describe what it happening here at CRANA.
HSR has been talked about in our society for more than 3 years - maybe only 3 years at Synod, but longer in our society.
To say that not everything that Jesus said, was written into the Holy Bible I believe is a mistake. The Word of our Lord and Savior was captured and documented these Words would not have been left out - that would be in the day something that would not have been tolerated or accepted. Can you imagine a group of people today sitting down and writing out the scriptures according to what Jesus said and we decide not to capture some of His Words? because it doesn't fit the narrative?? I doubt that today we would leave His Words out as just as those who wrote and put together the first edition would not miss a single word known to be said by Jesus.
I too do not find "name calling" and punishment unacceptable either, and yet that is what society did back in the 1980s/90s. Because I helped or talked to members of the Gay Society I was immediately deemed a member of that society and I suffered many attempts to be beaten up (it was called Gay Bashing back then and was supported by the Police) - those who persecuted me did not go unscathed.
So how do we resolve this "issue" so we can move onward and provide service to all of God's Children? Because the way we are doing it - is not working.
Again I thank you Ronald for your respectful conversation - we need more of that
Can we talk? I mean really talk, is Synod members and leaders, Pastors, Parishioners "listening" or are they hearing but not actually listening?
What an interesting article to read after the "High Priests" banished; you can call it a confession and repentance but it is the same -either repent or you are banished. members of a certain group of God's Children! That is right we are all God's children and yet we accept some and we banish others... I know there was much debate and it continues, but fundamentally CRC does NOT accept diversity - it's either you accept Diversity or you do not. You can not sit there and say hmmm I like this apple and I don't like this apple, There is no sitting on the fence, so you banished some of God's children, his creations just like picking and choosing which apple you like to be at your table.
CRC's past is like most Churches they pick an chose. they treat one group one way and other groups differently, yet God treats all of children equally, He has no favorites, a Good Father loves His Children equally.
So where do we stand now? do we accept this article on Diversity, or do we say I like the green apples the best?
Who am I? I am a disciple, I am a Child of God, I am learning. My skin is white but my blood is Cree, in God's eyes I am his Child - just like you. At one time you did not accept me, and many still do not, but that is their problem not mine. They will have to answer God's question "Why did you treat some of my Children on way and others another way?"
May the Grace and the Peace of our Father be with you always.
It was hard to tell, certainly during the "Big Events" but then now and then.
I raised in our Group Worship sessions (smaller groups held a someone's home), that we should break bread together, and we had one of our younger members lead us with the readings. We decided to do this monthly in our groups at the start of the home sessions - to set our hearts and minds into the right place.
Sadly our Church has dissolved or is in the process of dissolving this week. Sad because only a few years ago it was thriving and growing.
Allen - what is "a good Calvinist"? I hear that term more often these days, and everyone has a different opinion, thus I ask so that I can compile people's views and see if there are any commonalities that stand out.
This question is not meant to, be insulting or make fun of your comment it is for a learning piece.
1. The Wisdom of the Saints - 365 days of inspiration. This is Wisdom overload, but worth reading to remind us of the teachings of Jesus through the Saints.
2. Get Up Off Your Knees: Preaching the U2 Catalog - I'm on my 5th read it is very inspirational...hmmm Saint Bono?? :-) If your church is having difficulties incorporating "modern" music into their worship - here is a great start! Pastors will love the book because your sermons are already written :-)
3. Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife - having had my own experiences with the journey, I was mentioning my experiences to someone, and they said "oh you've read the book". Truth is no I hadn't. There are many similarities that I experienced - especially the sense of Peace and lack of Time - Time did not exist, a strange concept for humans, especially Physicists as Time is instrumental in our thinking of the Universe. Each time I went, I was given prophecies, and each time all of them have come true - and one is in progress right now.
I always love to read what others are reading and also what music are we listening to for inspiration. I just finished listening to Five Men Electrical Band "Signs"
And the sign said
"Everybody welcome
Come in, kneel down and pray"
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all
Question: What happened to previous posts on this topic? Mine is gone? could someone explained what happened? Was it because I made a heartfelt plead to not punish God's Children - for we are all God's Children, the "perfect Ones" and the "Not so perfect" (that means all of us). Jesus sat broke bread, drank wine with all kinds of people, why are we not trying to be like our Saviour?
My previous post was much longer with many references, citations etc...
Rev John F Schuurman I can not agree more with your well written article(?) I think advice is a better word. The Church has split, it split a long time ago and the leadership has only parted the sea even further. Who's next on the "banned" list? yes call it what you like it is what it truly is and should be called what it is - a banishment.
Jesus said let the children come to me. What he was saying for the Father, all people are my children let them come to me!
Posted in: Ethnically or Religiously CRC: Which Is Our Future?
Here is one of hundreds of reasons I have opposing people's opinion that people who identify themselves as homosexuals do not belong in the CRCNA. The following sentence illustrates it very well:
"How can same-sex marriage, for example, be a God-glorifying area for sexual expression and an ongoing act of rebellion against God’s Moral Law? It can’t be both.
People confuse sexual expression as the same as a loving expression. They are two different expressions! I Love my neighbour and have loving expressions with them but I do not have sexual expressions with them.
Get your head into that thinking mode and you might understand that all this arguing and defamation is based on the wrong premise.
Quote, all you want from scripture - what you will find is Loving one another is pleasing to God. The sexual acts are between God and those committing any act of sexual activity that is not pleasing to God whether it is same sex or not - if the sexual act is an act of Love, would that not please God? Yes, it would. Yet, God is not concerned with the rules man makes up, He is only concerned with his Laws the 10 and to clarify it further are the two that Jesus said to the Rabbis and Pharisees who tried to trick him. That's it no more, no less pleases God when we obey them.
Sincerely
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Guiding into Compliance: What Does That Mean?
Douglas, I can not agree more with your position! As far as I am concerned the church and the leadership of the church have taken a very heavy handed approach it is "Our way way or the highway" I do not feel welcomed in a CRA church. For transparency if you want to pigeon hole people or put people into a nice comfy box. I am straight, married, two children (adults now). There I fit into one of Synod's neat little boxes. Yet I do listen, I listen to the people crying because the bulliness of Synod decisions and directions have hurt God's children. The church might as well restart conversion therapy (which is outlawed by both the US and Canada's Psychology Societies on human sexuality.) There are people in the church that want to have the discussion about who are God's Children? Not how do we punish some people we aren't comfortable with.
I have had the replies on other posts - we discerned, we talked at great lengths on the topic, we prayed, we read the Holy Bible (Old Testament) and the Apostles positions on homosexuality - but did you read and listen to what Jesus says about homosexuality? Because if you did you would find he does not talk about it at all - nope not once. People say well he was a wedding between a man and a woman there's your proof - no you have missed the entire meaning of that lesson - it had nothing to do with a wedding it was all about Jesus' first miracle turning the water into wine, and Mary his mother knew who her son was (she told the servants do what he tells you).
I know the responses I will receive - you weren't there, you don't know what was said and what was done. "you don't know what you are talking about" None of those statements are about listening they are all statements to bully someone into a corner and to send them out the door.
Sincerely
Posted in: Guiding into Compliance: What Does That Mean?
Douglas; I am in agreement with your statements and suggestions. There are others suffering the ongoing superiority complex that has invaded the church. to use the quote "You are either with us or against us" and if you are against us we don't want you. That sounds like a clique, not a church. I find your statement the "prayer room" has been moved to the stage of Synod." classic we are higher then you and therefore better then you or we know more then you so listen to us. I do not buy the excuse that putting people on stage so others can see them as a valid excuse especially in this day of video transmissions.
I vividly remember the 1980s/90s when people with AIDS were dying, dying a horrible death and church leaders and church members walked away, or called it a plague sent by God and many other horrible things. I lost many dear friends to AIDS / HIV. It was horrible to watch someone die while the Christian leaders refused to lead in comforting those who were dying.
Your interpretations of the scriptures are very interesting and I have called out a couple of them before, yet I think you did a better job at coordinating the scriptures and bring them together as a whole and not as simple snippets that are used by those who are not ready to deep divide into the Bible and its teachings. You are also correct there are other things we need to look at besides just the Holy Bible.
I guess I am in the 1/3 - but I shall not be silenced. I didn't accept bullies in grade school, I certainly do not accept them at age 63!
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Guiding into Compliance: What Does That Mean?
Ronald, thank you for your respectful response, dialogue is important. I do have a few comments to your response, but before going to those, I agree we keep talking and talking and talking without a true definitive answer, especially when we change people at Synod every year! When this happens we call that the guinea pig circus wheel spinning around and around. I have been a mediator inside and outside of the church and that phrase has been used by many mediators to describe what it happening here at CRANA.
HSR has been talked about in our society for more than 3 years - maybe only 3 years at Synod, but longer in our society.
To say that not everything that Jesus said, was written into the Holy Bible I believe is a mistake. The Word of our Lord and Savior was captured and documented these Words would not have been left out - that would be in the day something that would not have been tolerated or accepted. Can you imagine a group of people today sitting down and writing out the scriptures according to what Jesus said and we decide not to capture some of His Words? because it doesn't fit the narrative?? I doubt that today we would leave His Words out as just as those who wrote and put together the first edition would not miss a single word known to be said by Jesus.
I too do not find "name calling" and punishment unacceptable either, and yet that is what society did back in the 1980s/90s. Because I helped or talked to members of the Gay Society I was immediately deemed a member of that society and I suffered many attempts to be beaten up (it was called Gay Bashing back then and was supported by the Police) - those who persecuted me did not go unscathed.
So how do we resolve this "issue" so we can move onward and provide service to all of God's Children? Because the way we are doing it - is not working.
Again I thank you Ronald for your respectful conversation - we need more of that
Sincerely
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Guiding into Compliance: What Does That Mean?
Ronald and Douglas - It's me again :-)
I want to thank both of you for a healthy and respectful discussion. My eyes have been opened to both new and different perspectives.
Do we have the answers? No, but we certainly have some similar views.
Would I rather have this discussion over a nice red wine and a roast beef dinner with both of you - absolutely!
My home is open to you should you need some loaves of bread in the middle of the night :-) (My favourite lesson)
My God Bless you and your families during this period of Lent and let us open our hearts to the words our Lord and Savior sends to each of us.
God Bless you, and thank you.
Jeffrey Thomson
Waterloo, Ontario
Canada.
Posted in: Sermon Resource for All Nations Heritage Sunday
Can we talk? I mean really talk, is Synod members and leaders, Pastors, Parishioners "listening" or are they hearing but not actually listening?
What an interesting article to read after the "High Priests" banished; you can call it a confession and repentance but it is the same -either repent or you are banished. members of a certain group of God's Children! That is right we are all God's children and yet we accept some and we banish others... I know there was much debate and it continues, but fundamentally CRC does NOT accept diversity - it's either you accept Diversity or you do not. You can not sit there and say hmmm I like this apple and I don't like this apple, There is no sitting on the fence, so you banished some of God's children, his creations just like picking and choosing which apple you like to be at your table.
CRC's past is like most Churches they pick an chose. they treat one group one way and other groups differently, yet God treats all of children equally, He has no favorites, a Good Father loves His Children equally.
So where do we stand now? do we accept this article on Diversity, or do we say I like the green apples the best?
Who am I? I am a disciple, I am a Child of God, I am learning. My skin is white but my blood is Cree, in God's eyes I am his Child - just like you. At one time you did not accept me, and many still do not, but that is their problem not mine. They will have to answer God's question "Why did you treat some of my Children on way and others another way?"
May the Grace and the Peace of our Father be with you always.
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: How Often Does Your Church Take Communion?
It was hard to tell, certainly during the "Big Events" but then now and then.
I raised in our Group Worship sessions (smaller groups held a someone's home), that we should break bread together, and we had one of our younger members lead us with the readings. We decided to do this monthly in our groups at the start of the home sessions - to set our hearts and minds into the right place.
Sadly our Church has dissolved or is in the process of dissolving this week. Sad because only a few years ago it was thriving and growing.
Posted in: How Often Does Your Church Take Communion?
Allen - what is "a good Calvinist"? I hear that term more often these days, and everyone has a different opinion, thus I ask so that I can compile people's views and see if there are any commonalities that stand out.
This question is not meant to, be insulting or make fun of your comment it is for a learning piece.
Sincerely
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Where Did You Worship This Past Sunday?
At home, our church has dissolved. I do not need 4 walls to worship just the Book and an open heart. :-)
Posted in: What Books Are You Currently Reading?
I have too many on the go at one time LOL.
1. The Wisdom of the Saints - 365 days of inspiration. This is Wisdom overload, but worth reading to remind us of the teachings of Jesus through the Saints.
2. Get Up Off Your Knees: Preaching the U2 Catalog - I'm on my 5th read it is very inspirational...hmmm Saint Bono?? :-) If your church is having difficulties incorporating "modern" music into their worship - here is a great start! Pastors will love the book because your sermons are already written :-)
3. Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife - having had my own experiences with the journey, I was mentioning my experiences to someone, and they said "oh you've read the book". Truth is no I hadn't. There are many similarities that I experienced - especially the sense of Peace and lack of Time - Time did not exist, a strange concept for humans, especially Physicists as Time is instrumental in our thinking of the Universe. Each time I went, I was given prophecies, and each time all of them have come true - and one is in progress right now.
I always love to read what others are reading and also what music are we listening to for inspiration. I just finished listening to Five Men Electrical Band "Signs"
And the sign said
"Everybody welcome
Come in, kneel down and pray"
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all
I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper
And I made up my own little sign
I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me
I'm alive and doin' fine"
Woo!
Sincerely
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Post-Synod: An Alternative Way Forward
Question: What happened to previous posts on this topic? Mine is gone? could someone explained what happened? Was it because I made a heartfelt plead to not punish God's Children - for we are all God's Children, the "perfect Ones" and the "Not so perfect" (that means all of us). Jesus sat broke bread, drank wine with all kinds of people, why are we not trying to be like our Saviour?
My previous post was much longer with many references, citations etc...
I hope this one stays up.
With Love and Peace
Jeffrey Thomson
Canada
Posted in: Post-Synod: An Alternative Way Forward
Rev John F Schuurman I can not agree more with your well written article(?) I think advice is a better word. The Church has split, it split a long time ago and the leadership has only parted the sea even further. Who's next on the "banned" list? yes call it what you like it is what it truly is and should be called what it is - a banishment.
Jesus said let the children come to me. What he was saying for the Father, all people are my children let them come to me!
With Love and Peace
Jeffrey Thomson