Question: What happened to previous posts on this topic? Mine is gone? could someone explained what happened? Was it because I made a heartfelt plead to not punish God's Children - for we are all God's Children, the "perfect Ones" and the "Not so perfect" (that means all of us). Jesus sat broke bread, drank wine with all kinds of people, why are we not trying to be like our Saviour?
My previous post was much longer with many references, citations etc...
Rev John F Schuurman I can not agree more with your well written article(?) I think advice is a better word. The Church has split, it split a long time ago and the leadership has only parted the sea even further. Who's next on the "banned" list? yes call it what you like it is what it truly is and should be called what it is - a banishment.
Jesus said let the children come to me. What he was saying for the Father, all people are my children let them come to me!
Interesting, as I write, 339 people have read this article Post-Synod: 3 Ways to Love While We Disagree. 339 people and I am the first to opine? Or have people already begun to "mush" - they've done the decision and let's get going - how many churches have hit that stage? How many are passively moving forward without discussion - "cause this will go away". Or how about well this does not impact our church we don't have any of them - does that one sound familiar to certain members of our CRCNA?
As I read and re-read this article I understood that the intent was to ensure we be like Jesus or Christlike and use Love as the basis for discussion, discerning, listening, deciding and acting.
Well, the problem you are in is that we didn't start with Love - or Paul's definition of Love. We skipped that and went straight to talk, decide, act. I know many who were ay the Synod will disagree with my view point - but do ask yourself did you feel Christlike at Synod? You certainly could not be like Jesus - only Jesus is Jesus and only He is the true definition of Love as Paul pointed out. No folks I really do not think you were all Christlike, in fact by all reports it was more like the Disciplines arguing amongst themselves or forgetting who they were - did not Peter deny 3 times who he was? The man whom the Church was built upon?
No folks, its not that easy, and each church will "deal" with this on their own terms and in their own ways - and Love may not be in the room - if it's not in your heart already.
When the decision came out, were you hurt? were you angry? did you feel like someone punched you right in the gut? Or did you cheer? were you happy with the decision? Or you couldn't care cause it doesn't impact me? - no where in that list is Love. You were not set up to be successful by beginning with learning about Love first and then move into some of the steps list above.
BUT- it's not to late!! We can change were we are in the process and started with Love !! Have your congregation - regardless of were you are - start with Paul's Letter the one we all know. Read the Letter, Listen to Paul! And then start your Journey and if you were on / in the Synod and you forgot about Love - read Paul's letter - and think deeply - were you in Love when you cast your voice?
I know my heart is in Love, it is filled with Love (most of the time - I'm not Jesus, I'm human a disciple learning to be Christlike), I know that when Jesus called forth for the children he was saying God's words - let all Children come to me, for we all are his Children regardless of our behaviour and sins.
thank you Staci - it was the first post to this topic? Not sure why I can't see it? Seems to have disappeared - not blaming anyone except those internet gremlins :-)
Yes, I am passionate about talking and writing. Yes I too have witnessed the online destructiveness in Churches, in companies, in school, amongst friends and family. But I disagree somewhat with it having to stay in the current communities. I think we will miss the different communities' views and inputs.
The Network does have strong rules - yes controlled censorship - which in this case I think is required so we do not spiral into the internet wars.
Some of us are not able to travel - even to our local Church, so using a forum with pen in hand to talk and listen politely may help many of our members.
But hey, we just talked, we do not agree but we talked and listened and were polite to one another as Brothers in Christ should be, as He wants us to be.
That is most unfortunate! Leaders lead, they do not deal with just the easy things, they must also deal with the difficult things, if not then they are simply followers waiting to hear what some other leader is doing.
I'm sorry to hear that is happening at your church.
I think the picture relating to this story speaks volumes! In fact, it is more than speaking volumes it is a thunderous roar! Yes those people do deserve our appreciation as many are volunteers, but we as a group of God's children are not playing fair in the global sandbox.
Here in Canada the largest minority are our First Nations - not only are we on their land but they account for over 5% of Canadians or people living in Canada. That last part - many First Nations look at the land that they are living on - is not Canadian land but their ancestral lands and as such, they do not participate in Census gatherings. As one elder told me really we should be doing a census of who is living on our Lands that the Creator gave them.
So this is leading to one of my pet peeve points. Do not use the acronym BIPOC at least in Canada because it is misleading and also there are some very deep wounds between Black and Indigenous Peoples.
First "I" should come before any other group since it is the largest group (in Canada) and also because they were here before anyone of us or our ancestors came to Canada and the United States.
Second, many Churches or Denominations committed atrosities - such as genocide against many First Nations and Indigenous Peoples. We see these atrocities (genocide) stories are slowly coming forth.
Now one that many people in the US and Canada do not know or fail to realize, that many First Nations, Indigenous People and American Natives. Do not trust Black people (the B in BIPOC). Why? well the term Buffalo Soldier refers to the Black Units of the US troops that were sent to conduct the Trail of Tears, to slaughter the Buffalo and let them lay there rottening and to make a few extra dollars kill Native Americans for the bounty money.
And finally, POC People of Colour - why do we need to call out people of Colour they all know what colour of skin God gave them.
So drop the BIPOC acroynm completely - God does not care what colour you are He Loves all of His Children. And so should we.
If you want to grow the membership, be inclusive because you truly want to be inclusive, we've had enough of being Token people on some board. Make it honest, make your Synod open to all of God's children.
When we were 4 years old we sang other songs and many naturally stuck in our heads. When we were 16 other songs stuck in our heads, while others we said the words but didn't know the meanings behind the songs. Today our children (our teens and young adults) are listening to other Christian Worship songs, and they are coming back to Churches that understand that Worship includes singing and praises that all the people know and enjoy. Many of these new songs are the new Psalms - songs of joy and sorrow mostly though are Praise and Glory our God, Our Father, Our Saviour!
Having worked in the Music Industry in the 1990 - if you came into the Record Companies (Sony, EMI, Capitol (owned by EMI etc) you wouldn't get 10 minutes of a Artist & Relations person (the ones that pick the groups and their songs) they would say thanks don't call us we'll call you. The Christian Music or Gospel Music was frowned up. But there were many bands that snuck in song with religious meanings - and guess what the teens loved them and the parents hated them except for my father. He's 87 and he still loves to sing a popular teen song from the 1970s
"Singin' joy to the world All the boys and girls now Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me"
By Three Dog Night
I'm 62 and I love so many of the new Psalms "What a Beautiful (Wonderful ) Name is Jesus, Cornerstone, Mighty to Save - Hillsong (yes I've heard all the scandals and stories I chose to listen to the Praise and Worship instead of gossip and scandals), you don't want Hillsong try Kistene DiMarco "It is Well" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0dIWJ4t4Jg or Zach Williams "No longer a Slave" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDnA_coA168
So here's an idea for Parents, Pastors, Parishioners and our youth - let them sing their songs in Church. Let them have a Worship team play some of the older songs AND some of the newer songs! - Keep our Teens and Young Adults in Church through worship songs they can relate to, and understand and Love!
Try it - you might find that these new Psalms will touch your soul and awaken an old heart to receive. I did and was Saved - my family would play some of these when I was fighting heart attacks and Covid-19 at the same time. And yes I listened to the older songs to, and I held my rosary and prayed to Mother Mary and to Jesus and The Father.
May God bless you regardless of your Church, let the children come to him through music and worship!
A picture contains a 1000 words, the picture for this article provides a million words. At least we are talking about the inequalities instead of ignoring them, or have we? Have we being ignoring the inequalities for 50 years or more? I think the latter is a truer statement, though I have not been with the CRC for 50 years, rather more like 5-7 years. I did attend Aspire pre-covid, pre-covid a new era title. During those years God provide many things to me, my own meeting with Jesus, my illnesses, the dissolving of our Church through many ways, one simply put is racism - our new Pastor is (now keep this secret!!) He's black! In defense to the Church that may have been the reason for only a couple of people - but a couple of people is a couple too many, in my humble opinion. Covid certainly did not help - 2+ years of missing that face to face meeting and socializing! The Synod has discovered they are not representing all of God's children! I hope they will put real solutions on the table, not quotas, rather open those doors and let God's children become leaders within the CRC walls. While doing so, we must not become hippocryts we must be led by God's voice. There are some key points we need to keep in the fore front.
1. Please do not use the term BIPOC - it is just another label to separate the people by their skin colour or background.
2. Recognize the populations in different areas where the Church services today and think forward to tomorrow.
3. In Canada contrary to BLM - yes I am opening the can! - the largest minority are Indigenous people, not black people or people of other colours. The official number is not readily available as census records are very hard to find that are accurate. Many First Nations do not participate in such census because they believe the census is really for them to know of the make up of the nation around their lands - whom they see themselves as curators or caretakers for the Creator. Yet we do know that over 5% identify themselves as First Nation, Indigenous, Inuit, Metis, and Aboriginal (there are many First Nation people - such as Cree, Blackfoot, Algonquin and there are many others I did not list everyone - nor did I purposely ignore a First Nation).
4. Another reason not to use BIPOC is that if you know your history in the US, you would know that Black Soldiers (Buffalo Soldiers - no one knows who invented that name) were active participants in the genocide committed against Native Americans and therefore there is heavy wounds to heal first. Many of the Native Americans fled to Canada, my ancestors did - I am part Cree (father's side), and yet if you saw me you would say my skin is White!
So let's leave BIPOC out.
So how do we get more people of different backgrounds into the Synod - invite them, simple as that. Put away conscious and subconscious bias's away store them in a little box in your head and ask Jesus to get rid of that box. Invite them earnously, don't pay lip service - we can smell that a mile away. If you are serious to make changes do so honestly - throw out the quotas. Jesus had only one quota - the entire human population!
Posted in: Where Did You Worship This Past Sunday?
At home, our church has dissolved. I do not need 4 walls to worship just the Book and an open heart. :-)
Posted in: Post-Synod: An Alternative Way Forward
Question: What happened to previous posts on this topic? Mine is gone? could someone explained what happened? Was it because I made a heartfelt plead to not punish God's Children - for we are all God's Children, the "perfect Ones" and the "Not so perfect" (that means all of us). Jesus sat broke bread, drank wine with all kinds of people, why are we not trying to be like our Saviour?
My previous post was much longer with many references, citations etc...
I hope this one stays up.
With Love and Peace
Jeffrey Thomson
Canada
Posted in: Post-Synod: An Alternative Way Forward
Rev John F Schuurman I can not agree more with your well written article(?) I think advice is a better word. The Church has split, it split a long time ago and the leadership has only parted the sea even further. Who's next on the "banned" list? yes call it what you like it is what it truly is and should be called what it is - a banishment.
Jesus said let the children come to me. What he was saying for the Father, all people are my children let them come to me!
With Love and Peace
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Post-Synod: 3 Ways to Love While We Disagree
Interesting, as I write, 339 people have read this article Post-Synod: 3 Ways to Love While We Disagree. 339 people and I am the first to opine? Or have people already begun to "mush" - they've done the decision and let's get going - how many churches have hit that stage? How many are passively moving forward without discussion - "cause this will go away". Or how about well this does not impact our church we don't have any of them - does that one sound familiar to certain members of our CRCNA?
As I read and re-read this article I understood that the intent was to ensure we be like Jesus or Christlike and use Love as the basis for discussion, discerning, listening, deciding and acting.
Well, the problem you are in is that we didn't start with Love - or Paul's definition of Love. We skipped that and went straight to talk, decide, act. I know many who were ay the Synod will disagree with my view point - but do ask yourself did you feel Christlike at Synod? You certainly could not be like Jesus - only Jesus is Jesus and only He is the true definition of Love as Paul pointed out. No folks I really do not think you were all Christlike, in fact by all reports it was more like the Disciplines arguing amongst themselves or forgetting who they were - did not Peter deny 3 times who he was? The man whom the Church was built upon?
No folks, its not that easy, and each church will "deal" with this on their own terms and in their own ways - and Love may not be in the room - if it's not in your heart already.
When the decision came out, were you hurt? were you angry? did you feel like someone punched you right in the gut? Or did you cheer? were you happy with the decision? Or you couldn't care cause it doesn't impact me? - no where in that list is Love. You were not set up to be successful by beginning with learning about Love first and then move into some of the steps list above.
BUT- it's not to late!! We can change were we are in the process and started with Love !! Have your congregation - regardless of were you are - start with Paul's Letter the one we all know. Read the Letter, Listen to Paul! And then start your Journey and if you were on / in the Synod and you forgot about Love - read Paul's letter - and think deeply - were you in Love when you cast your voice?
I know my heart is in Love, it is filled with Love (most of the time - I'm not Jesus, I'm human a disciple learning to be Christlike), I know that when Jesus called forth for the children he was saying God's words - let all Children come to me, for we all are his Children regardless of our behaviour and sins.
With Love and may Peace be with you.
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Post-Synod: An Alternative Way Forward
thank you Staci - it was the first post to this topic? Not sure why I can't see it? Seems to have disappeared - not blaming anyone except those internet gremlins :-)
Posted in: Post-Synod: An Alternative Way Forward
Thank you, Christine - unfortunately, it is not the one :-( I guess the internet gremlins got to it :-( no worries .
Posted in: Let's Talk About Numbers
Thank you Sean for your feedback!
Yes, I am passionate about talking and writing. Yes I too have witnessed the online destructiveness in Churches, in companies, in school, amongst friends and family. But I disagree somewhat with it having to stay in the current communities. I think we will miss the different communities' views and inputs.
The Network does have strong rules - yes controlled censorship - which in this case I think is required so we do not spiral into the internet wars.
Some of us are not able to travel - even to our local Church, so using a forum with pen in hand to talk and listen politely may help many of our members.
But hey, we just talked, we do not agree but we talked and listened and were polite to one another as Brothers in Christ should be, as He wants us to be.
Jeffrey Thomson
Posted in: Let's Talk About Numbers
That is most unfortunate! Leaders lead, they do not deal with just the easy things, they must also deal with the difficult things, if not then they are simply followers waiting to hear what some other leader is doing.
I'm sorry to hear that is happening at your church.
Posted in: Diversity Notes on Synod 2022
I think the picture relating to this story speaks volumes! In fact, it is more than speaking volumes it is a thunderous roar! Yes those people do deserve our appreciation as many are volunteers, but we as a group of God's children are not playing fair in the global sandbox.
Here in Canada the largest minority are our First Nations - not only are we on their land but they account for over 5% of Canadians or people living in Canada. That last part - many First Nations look at the land that they are living on - is not Canadian land but their ancestral lands and as such, they do not participate in Census gatherings. As one elder told me really we should be doing a census of who is living on our Lands that the Creator gave them.
So this is leading to one of my pet peeve points. Do not use the acronym BIPOC at least in Canada because it is misleading and also there are some very deep wounds between Black and Indigenous Peoples.
First "I" should come before any other group since it is the largest group (in Canada) and also because they were here before anyone of us or our ancestors came to Canada and the United States.
Second, many Churches or Denominations committed atrosities - such as genocide against many First Nations and Indigenous Peoples. We see these atrocities (genocide) stories are slowly coming forth.
Now one that many people in the US and Canada do not know or fail to realize, that many First Nations, Indigenous People and American Natives. Do not trust Black people (the B in BIPOC). Why? well the term Buffalo Soldier refers to the Black Units of the US troops that were sent to conduct the Trail of Tears, to slaughter the Buffalo and let them lay there rottening and to make a few extra dollars kill Native Americans for the bounty money.
And finally, POC People of Colour - why do we need to call out people of Colour they all know what colour of skin God gave them.
So drop the BIPOC acroynm completely - God does not care what colour you are He Loves all of His Children. And so should we.
If you want to grow the membership, be inclusive because you truly want to be inclusive, we've had enough of being Token people on some board. Make it honest, make your Synod open to all of God's children.
Amen
Posted in: Are We Singing Songs That Stick?
When we were 4 years old we sang other songs and many naturally stuck in our heads. When we were 16 other songs stuck in our heads, while others we said the words but didn't know the meanings behind the songs. Today our children (our teens and young adults) are listening to other Christian Worship songs, and they are coming back to Churches that understand that Worship includes singing and praises that all the people know and enjoy. Many of these new songs are the new Psalms - songs of joy and sorrow mostly though are Praise and Glory our God, Our Father, Our Saviour!
Having worked in the Music Industry in the 1990 - if you came into the Record Companies (Sony, EMI, Capitol (owned by EMI etc) you wouldn't get 10 minutes of a Artist & Relations person (the ones that pick the groups and their songs) they would say thanks don't call us we'll call you. The Christian Music or Gospel Music was frowned up. But there were many bands that snuck in song with religious meanings - and guess what the teens loved them and the parents hated them except for my father. He's 87 and he still loves to sing a popular teen song from the 1970s
"Singin' joy to the world
All the boys and girls now
Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea
Joy to you and me"
By Three Dog Night
I'm 62 and I love so many of the new Psalms "What a Beautiful (Wonderful ) Name is Jesus, Cornerstone, Mighty to Save - Hillsong (yes I've heard all the scandals and stories I chose to listen to the Praise and Worship instead of gossip and scandals), you don't want Hillsong try Kistene DiMarco "It is Well" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0dIWJ4t4Jg or Zach Williams "No longer a Slave" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDnA_coA168
So here's an idea for Parents, Pastors, Parishioners and our youth - let them sing their songs in Church. Let them have a Worship team play some of the older songs AND some of the newer songs! - Keep our Teens and Young Adults in Church through worship songs they can relate to, and understand and Love!
Try it - you might find that these new Psalms will touch your soul and awaken an old heart to receive. I did and was Saved - my family would play some of these when I was fighting heart attacks and Covid-19 at the same time. And yes I listened to the older songs to, and I held my rosary and prayed to Mother Mary and to Jesus and The Father.
May God bless you regardless of your Church, let the children come to him through music and worship!
Jeffrey Thomson
Waterloo, Canada
Posted in: Diversity Notes on Synod 2022
A picture contains a 1000 words, the picture for this article provides a million words. At least we are talking about the inequalities instead of ignoring them, or have we? Have we being ignoring the inequalities for 50 years or more? I think the latter is a truer statement, though I have not been with the CRC for 50 years, rather more like 5-7 years. I did attend Aspire pre-covid, pre-covid a new era title. During those years God provide many things to me, my own meeting with Jesus, my illnesses, the dissolving of our Church through many ways, one simply put is racism - our new Pastor is (now keep this secret!!) He's black! In defense to the Church that may have been the reason for only a couple of people - but a couple of people is a couple too many, in my humble opinion. Covid certainly did not help - 2+ years of missing that face to face meeting and socializing! The Synod has discovered they are not representing all of God's children! I hope they will put real solutions on the table, not quotas, rather open those doors and let God's children become leaders within the CRC walls. While doing so, we must not become hippocryts we must be led by God's voice. There are some key points we need to keep in the fore front.
1. Please do not use the term BIPOC - it is just another label to separate the people by their skin colour or background.
2. Recognize the populations in different areas where the Church services today and think forward to tomorrow.
3. In Canada contrary to BLM - yes I am opening the can! - the largest minority are Indigenous people, not black people or people of other colours. The official number is not readily available as census records are very hard to find that are accurate. Many First Nations do not participate in such census because they believe the census is really for them to know of the make up of the nation around their lands - whom they see themselves as curators or caretakers for the Creator. Yet we do know that over 5% identify themselves as First Nation, Indigenous, Inuit, Metis, and Aboriginal (there are many First Nation people - such as Cree, Blackfoot, Algonquin and there are many others I did not list everyone - nor did I purposely ignore a First Nation).
4. Another reason not to use BIPOC is that if you know your history in the US, you would know that Black Soldiers (Buffalo Soldiers - no one knows who invented that name) were active participants in the genocide committed against Native Americans and therefore there is heavy wounds to heal first. Many of the Native Americans fled to Canada, my ancestors did - I am part Cree (father's side), and yet if you saw me you would say my skin is White!
So let's leave BIPOC out.
So how do we get more people of different backgrounds into the Synod - invite them, simple as that. Put away conscious and subconscious bias's away store them in a little box in your head and ask Jesus to get rid of that box. Invite them earnously, don't pay lip service - we can smell that a mile away. If you are serious to make changes do so honestly - throw out the quotas. Jesus had only one quota - the entire human population!
Posted in: Share Your 3-Word Prayer for the Human Sexuality Conversation
I feel Lost
I feel betrayed,
I'm not welcome,
Open the Door,
I'm coming Home,
Open their hearts,
Lord of Love.